"Practical " Boat Owner?..

[Refueler]

electric propulsion i would consider.....if it was powered by a diesel engine driven alternator

batteries seem to be getting worse and worse!

i recal a time in the 70's where you could take an old beat up battery that had been flat for 1-3 years, charge it up and it was still good.
these days if they are left flat for 3months they are only good for the scrapyard

Its not only batterys ... it seems to be across the whole spectrum of life now ..

A house roof used to be good for 40 - 50 years ..... now I am looking at replacement after 10yrs !!

 

[Babylon]

But Wooden Boat is still going?

Yes, because Wooden Boat isn't about relentlessly flogging a ton of expensive consumer electronic and/or safety items to owners of new and older production plastic boats (while fobbing them off with endless recyclings of the same shallow articles in the pretence of being a source of actual knowledge) in a culture that's long since been technically and spiritually moribund. It's about the whole ecosystem of wooden boats - designing, building, repair, etc - for which there's a vibrant community in North America, Australasia, and elsewhere in the world (and yes still a little bit here too).

Craft and traditional publications (like Wooden Boat and Fine Woodworking) to support it is where the Americans have always outstripped the Brits.

 

[ylop]

But Wooden Boat is still going?

I might suggest that the demographic for Wooden Boat is an older audience who aren’t great with the internet, have disposable cash and priorities that are about traditional ways of doing things - magazines should work for them, and their advertisers.

The old folk grumbling here that PBO isn’t like it used to be - are Internet competent and looking for budget solutions! You are a print advertisers worst nightmare!

I stopped buying / subscribing to pbo years ago, would read an article and realise I had read similar 2 years earlier. Thought about buying a copy recently and saw how thin it was and put it back. Had a free copy from the boat show and this confirmed that I won’t be buying it again.

Actually in terms of content there’s far more than 10 yrs ago - less adds, probably thinner paper but more words. It also feels like it’s more frequent - are there 14 issues a year now?

electric propulsion i would consider.....if it was powered by a diesel engine driven alternator

Sounds like a hybrid solution - you should buy the magazine it discusses the practicalities!

The interesting question to me is regen - turning wind back into power to use in the future…

 

[Refueler]

Diesel - Electric has been on trains and ships for decades ...

 

[dunedin]

Diesel - Electric has been on trains and ships for decades ...

Yup. And a serial hybrid with DC generator looks like a great option for a new build. Silent emission free motoring in and out of harbour, and for most day sails if the boat is an efficient / fast sailer. Huge ocean crossing range under motor at just below hull speed, with massively more efficiency than a typical diesel engine running at low load. And electric regeneration when under sail. What’s not to like (once the costs come down).

 

[dunedin]

….

The interesting question to me is regen - turning wind back into power to use in the future…

Yes, regeneration is potentially a big plus ….. but currently very challenging in the cheap and simple DIY installations.

Adding an electric motor, often second hand, to a shaft drive is relatively cheap and simple.

The challenge is the propeller. There are three different modes needed - 1) thrust using engine, 2) folded for fast sailing, 3) regeneration.
On a cheap DIY installation the choices are a traditional folding propellor, which does 1 & 2 but not 3. Or a large fixed prop which does 1), does 3) but inefficiently - but fails at 2) and is a huge drag when sailing if don’t need to generate.

The expensive professional drives like Oceanvolt solve this with a fancy servo variable propellor, which can be optimised for all three modes, which is great. But at a large cost - and more complex for reliability / maintenance.

 

[DownWest]

Watermotor used to sell VP props in small sizes with with little petrol engines for boats. Maybe something like that with manual control rather than servo control? Would do all three.

 

[ylop]

Having a saildrive rather than a shaft drive I have wondered if anyone will come up with a “simple” direct replacement potentially avoiding the expensive 7 year gasket replacement. Mine is due next year - and neither we nor the tech will be ready for it then. So that means it will be due again in 8 yrs. I predict the low cost simple solution is available in 9 yrs time - as timing is never in my favour for these things!

 

[Daydream believer]

If a vessel needs "X" energy to move it surely providing a diesel engine to produce that energy then turning that into electomotive power must involve some loss of energy. Then one might ask- what is the point?
If the electric motor was powered by solar or wind then fair enough. The examples of trains above is because the electric motor can be given more control. For the same reason many cranes have electric motors powered by diesel. The motor can have infinite control that is not needed on a yacht.
I think it is just a gimic as a sop to the net zero wokes.

 

[dunedin]

If a vessel needs "X" energy to move it surely providing a diesel engine to produce that energy then turning that into electomotive power must involve some loss of energy. Then one might ask- what is the point?
If the electric motor was powered by solar or wind then fair enough. The examples of trains above is because the electric motor can be given more control. For the same reason many cranes have electric motors powered by diesel. The motor can have infinite control that is not needed on a yacht.
I think it is just a gimic as a sop to the net zero wokes.

Actually if you run the maths a serial hybrid makes a lot of sense.
A diesel engine is moderately efficient at full throttle, more inefficient at low low, and entirely waste when at idle.
An electric motor uses no power at idle and is very efficient manoevering at slow speed - which is what an “auxiliary” engine in a sailing yacht is often used for.
And, if want range, again a diesel engine is generally only running at half power or even quarter power on a sailing yacht cruising at 5-6 knots in calm weather (and yachts motor a lot in calm weather). So inefficient.
On the other hand a DC generator can run at its most efficient revs and power to charge the batteries and then cut off and run under electric until needed again. And doesn’t need to be anything like as powerful as a diesel engine - as peak power can be provided by the electric motor for the short periods needed.

Different perhaps outside the PBO world, in the land of large motorised appartment blocks trying to bash huge chunks of water aside at 30 knots (though again perfectly feasible if stick to displacement speeds).

 

[NormanS]

In total we were sailing for about thirteen weeks this summer. In all that time, we were one night alongside. All the rest at anchor.
Our boat is probably best described as a Motor Sailer, and not being outright purists, we are prepared to motor to get somewhere.
I simply cannot see how any form of electric propulsion could fulfil our needs.
Back on subject. I have had a subscription with PBO for many decades, and increasingly wonder why I don't stop it. PBO used to be the DIY Bible for impecunious, but practical boat owners, who did all their own maintenance, improvements and repairs. I know that fewer people are like that nowadays, and I suppose that the magazine reflects reality.

 

[trapper guy]

I might suggest that the demographic for Wooden Boat is an older audience who aren’t great with the internet, have disposable cash and priorities that are about traditional ways of doing things - magazines should work for them, and their advertisers.

The old folk grumbling here that PBO isn’t like it used to be - are Internet competent and looking for budget solutions! You are a print advertisers worst nightmare!

Actually in terms of content there’s far more than 10 yrs ago - less adds, probably thinner paper but more words. It also feels like it’s more frequent - are there 14 issues a year now?

Sounds like a hybrid solution - you should buy the magazine it discusses the practicalities!

The interesting question to me is regen - turning wind back into power to use in the future…

turning wind back into power?
wind is already power.
i think you meant electrical power.

 

[trapper guy]

Actually if you run the maths a serial hybrid makes a lot of sense.

hybrid seems to work well enough for cars, maybe the objections to hybrid yachts consists of more than mathematics, which appears to work in favour of one, but against the other.
maybe its ignorance?

im sure there is an engineer out there capable of deigning a funnelled turbine capable of being deployed at the stern

 

[trapper guy]

If a vessel needs "X" energy to move it surely providing a diesel engine to produce that energy then turning that into electomotive power must involve some loss of energy. Then one might ask- what is the point?
If the electric motor was powered by solar or wind then fair enough. The examples of trains above is because the electric motor can be given more control. For the same reason many cranes have electric motors powered by diesel. The motor can have infinite control that is not needed on a yacht.
I think it is just a gimic as a sop to the net zero wokes.

if you apply wind to a turbine there is inevitable going to be drag, which also equates to a loss of energy.
may as well just drop the turbine into the water, it would charge on tidal flow irrespective of wind.
placing the turbine behind an electric prop equals the regen people speak of, afterall, you are expending energy thrusting that water to the rear, why waste it?

 

[Sandy]

My screen was like that when I first got AIS. Turned off the AIS vectors, etc. Why people transmit when in marinas I don't understand. I normally turn mine off once moored or at anchor.

Going by the comments on the forum about the number posters that are concerned about the hight of anchor lights that might not be the best course of action.

I really suspect that they have their head in their chart-plotter rather than looking about them. At least with your AIS transmitting they might spot you.

 

[dunedin]

In total we were sailing for about thirteen weeks this summer. In all that time, we were one night alongside. All the rest at anchor.
Our boat is probably best described as a Motor Sailer, and not being outright purists, we are prepared to motor to get somewhere.
I simply cannot see how any form of electric propulsion could fulfil our needs.
…

Nobody has ever suggested electric propulsion would meet all needs (for the foreseeable future). But it does meet many usage patterns.
It has to be said that 13 weeks underway with only one night in harbour is at one very extreme end of the UK usage patterns (and respect for you in achieving it).
Many, probably the vast majority of boats, day sail from a marina and/or go from harbour to harbour. (You will have seen many attempt to do this on the W of Scotland, pontoon hopping and leaving all the best places to us.). Others on here delight in reminding us they never use an anchor at all.

 

[Boathook]

Nobody has ever suggested electric propulsion would meet all needs (for the foreseeable future). But it does meet many usage patterns.
It has to be said that 13 weeks underway with only one night in harbour is at one very extreme end of the UK usage patterns (and respect for you in achieving it).
Many, probably the vast majority of boats, day sail from a marina and/or go from harbour to harbour. (You will have seen many attempt to do this on the W of Scotland, pontoon hopping and leaving all the best places to us.). Others on here delight in reminding us they never use an anchor at all.

I prefer to anchor. Marinas and harbours are good for supplies but quite a few harbours only have moorings with a few spaces alongside for fuel and water only.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Electric. Drives are on their way and will replace diesel as auxiliary drive on a sailing yacht.

Over my career I have seen diesel electric drives on drilling rigs move from DC to AC and the equipment shrink in size for bigger power outputs.

Electric generation and storage on sailing yachts is going the same way. If you haven’t noticed it, your not looking. Costs are falling.

PBO lacks imagination, which is why it loses readership. It could be a great depository of knowledge both old and new, remain relevant and serve both the hard core DIYers and those that only want to change a plug and polish the GRP. The format should reflect easy user access and search, as well as new articles, and retain a vendor, service provider directory.

I would pay a subscription for that sort of service, a one stop shop. Perhaps their market research suggests folks would not.

 

[Daydream believer]

PBO lacks imagination, which is why it loses readership. It could be a great depository of knowledge both old and new, remain relevant and serve both the hard core DIYers and those that only want to change a plug and polish the GRP. The format should reflect easy user access and search, as well as new articles, and retain a vendor, service provider directory.

I do not need or ever want electric drive. neither do I need the sort of thing that the RYA shove down my throat everytime their magazine drops through the letterbox-
Diversity & net zero--- I am sick to death of it.
All I want is an update on a few electrics when the AIS goes t.ts up (It is showing glitches)
I still do not understand how to get WIFI on my boat & having read numerous articles still cannot understand a single one of them. But then I only use my so called smart phone as a phone. But I would like to use my Ipad when in the marina.
Yes, you are right. Most of the time I do just want to polish my decks.
I recently installed a fuel transfer pump to avoid having to lift heavy spare cans & pour fuel when under way. But that would not come up as an article because I doubt anyone would have thought of it.
I wrote an article for PBO on how I lay The club race marks & heavy sinker moorings up to 2.0 tonnes using my 20ft launch. I would have thought that lots of clubs would have profited from the info. However, they declined to print it because the airbag I use has the manufacturers name on it.
I am thinking of new sails but I shall probably go to my favourite sailmaker & discuss with him. It would be nice to know whose sails are winning races at the minute though.
I would like some hints on how to rig a code zero without a sprite & a suitable halyard sheave clear of the jib
But none of the above will ever come up on PBO. If it does I might ask myself if it is worth buying 50 useles copies for one article.
Not really

 

[DownWest]

if you apply wind to a turbine there is inevitable going to be drag, which also equates to a loss of energy.
may as well just drop the turbine into the water, it would charge on tidal flow irrespective of wind.
placing the turbine behind an electric prop equals the regen people speak of, afterall, you are expending energy thrusting that water to the rear, why waste it?

That looks suspiciously like perpetual motion... If I read your bit right. Not the first line..
Like the motor running the generator, that charges the battery, that runs the motor, that....

I suspect you are ignoring drag..