Powering a windlass

[earlybird]

I'm gonna tooth suck. Assuming your 12m is one way, which I guess it is on an 11m boat, your voltage drop with this set up is over 10%. In my mind this is too much. For your set up I would want 1 awg for a 5% drop.

No, as I said, 12m total. ( The engine and batteries are just aft of the mast, so I'm cheating a bit ! ).
If this gives me 5% drop, and power is V^2, then I accept that my maximum 800w becomes 720w, but it's still far quicker and stronger than my aged muscles.
With the engine started, the volts go up even more, and since the boat usually pulls the anchor out anyway, the windlass seems to have a pretty easy time as a rule.

 

[Shuggy]

I installed a 1200w windlass 3 years ago. I used welding cable without issue. Order details below. No connection etc etc but it seemed like a good deal at the time and I had no problems:

Dear [xxx],

Thank you for shopping at The Welders Warehouse Ltd .
We have received and are processing the following order:

******************************************************
Order Number: [xxx]
Order Date: 2 March 2007 13:22 GMT

Ship To: [xxx]


Shopping Cart (Prices in British Pounds)
DESCRIPTION QUANTITY PRICE COST ----------------------------------------------------------------------
50mm² Welding Cable 30 £4.00 £120.00 ======================================================================
Subtotal: £120.00
VAT: £21.00
Total: £141.00


******************************************************


Sincerely,
Sales The Welders Warehouse Ltd
17 London Road Milton Keynes MK5 8AB United Kingdom 0870 744 0818 weld@thewelderswarehouse.com www.thewelderswarehouse.com

 

[snooks]

While there are so many collective minds on here.....

I'm adding a windlass to Pixie and I'm going to run 2x 35mm2 cables from the house batteries - 2x100ah batteries charged via a VSR and wind charger while @anchor - rather than a battery up the pointy end

The only problem I might see is that if the engine battery hasn't reached 13.7V then the engine won't be charging the house batteries, then all the power is coming out of the house batteries and not being charged at the same time.

Can anyone else see any other problems that I might have over looked?

ps Lewmar recommend 25mm2 wire to do the job, but a friend had some 35mm2 at a good price

 

[Chris_Robb]

I am in the process of fitting a 1000 amp windlass. I have decided to run it from a separate battery in the forpeak, so as not to have to run 50mm2 cable. I have 2 x 110amp hour batteries on a 1, 2, both switch I know they are leisure batteries but I intend to use one for starting, and the other as a leisure battery. I'm going to buy a starting battery for the windlass, and charge it by connecting it to the designated starting battery.
My question is, as these 2 batteries will be in parallel I assume when I start my engine it will draw power from both, will I still be able to run a lighter cable to the windlass for charging purposes.

I had this exact problem and put in a sterling Batery to battery charger connected to the engine battery. It self activates the moment the voltage has risen above 13.8 volts. It works perfectly. You still need fairly large cables as you don't want musch of a voltage drop to it. I put in 30sq cables. Anther poster said 10 sq, which I think will not be enough if you have a hefty alternator and charge to 14.8V. - do stick to Lead acid though.

 

[earlybird]

[QUOTE

I'm adding a windlass to Pixie and I'm going to run 2x 35mm2 cables from the house batteries - 2x100ah batteries charged via a VSR and wind charger while @anchor - rather than a battery up the pointy end

The only problem I might see is that if the engine battery hasn't reached 13.7V then the engine won't be charging the house batteries, then all the power is coming out of the house batteries and not being charged at the same time.
[/QUOTE]

Connect it to the engine battery. The engine will, usually, be running. A winch taking 100 amps for 2 minutes only uses ~3 amp. hrs, and that's extreme. The alternator will put that back in a jiffy. No need to worry the house battery.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

We're mixing up a number of issues here and in your previous post.

The first is the sort oif wire to use to run supplies forward. The purist will say you should use tinned wire and who can argue against that? It is better - but will disaster strike if you use ordinary untinned wire? Most probably not judging from my own experience and that of other posters. I was certainly happy to use welding cable without problems on my boat for 7 years, and at a cost ratio of ten to one against tinned wire I would have been happy had it failed at that point - which it didnt do.

The second is the wiring of the battery feeding the windlass. It's generally good practise to raise or lower the anchor with the engine running and therefore the alternator charging. With any luck you will then have an operating voltage at the windlass above the nominal 12v if it is wired in parallel with any of the batteries being charged. I can see no reason to prefer the domestic battery over the engine starter or vice versa.

As to locating the battery forward, it always strikes me as an unnecessary complication. Its another battery to look after. Its another battery to vent and to keep charged and topped up with water. Its another battery that will fail in a few years time. An don a lifetime basis I do wonder if its cheaper than using heavier cable - dont forget that if you want the forward battery to be fully charged , you have to keep down the voltage drop in the cables which means they have to be fairly big for that length of run anyway.

I considered all these options myself and then wired up directly with welding cable from the engine starter battery. Worked very well..

 

[VicS]

I'm adding a windlass to Pixie and I'm going to run 2x 35mm2 cables from the house batteries

What is the power (or current consumption ) of the windlass.
how long will the cable runs be from the battery to the windlass.

If we are talking 1000watts and 20ft cable runs you should be looking at AWG 1 or 40mm² at least. Preferably 50mm²

 

[mitiempo]

I agree with Bosun Higgs. The battery forward makes a simple system less so. The only downside to running cables from an aft battery is the price of the cables themselves but this has to be balanced with another battery, its maintenance and more complication to the entire system. But if you run cables it does require 1/0 for a 40' total run (there & back) with a 1000 watt windlass to maintain 3% drop. 2/0 wouldn't hurt for a bit less voltage drop.

 

[snooks]

What is the power (or current consumption ) of the windlass.
how long will the cable runs be from the battery to the windlass.

If we are talking 1000watts and 20ft cable runs you should be looking at AWG 1 or 40mm² at least. Preferably 50mm²

According to Lewmar's documentation 7-15m/23-50ft of cable run requires 25mm2 for their V2

 

[cimo]

have a friend with a fully functional electric system. only time I saw it being used, the chain was constantly jamming in the locker below. we ended up flaking the chain out on the sidedeck by hand.

As the alternative voice, no-one yet mentioned just using the manual rachet and gypsy clutch? If its becoming hard work - a longer lever would help?

persumably everyone already carries a windlass handle?

 

[snooks]

have a friend with a fully functional electric system. only time I saw it being used, the chain was constantly jamming in the locker below. we ended up flaking the chain out on the sidedeck by hand.

As the alternative voice, no-one yet mentioned just using the manual rachet and gypsy clutch? If its becoming hard work - a longer lever would help?

persumably everyone already carries a windlass handle?

I suggest your friend looks at their installation, it shouldn't be like that. Occasionally on some installations the chain pile needs a kick to stop it fouling the rode...a traffic cone in the bottom of the locker where the chain pyramids up will stop this....Or SS chain, the first is a LOT cheaper than the later.

We're going electric with a drum so my girlfriend can hoist me out of the water, or up the mast with the minimum of fuss and bother.

The other consideration is I've had back trouble in the past (one of the joys of humping a heavy camera bag around) and don't want to risk my back anchoring several days in a row.

Finally it's also a safety aspect, if something is easy to do it will get done often.....after having to relay an anchor 4 or 5 times without a windlass, there will be a time when you'll say "that'll do" when really in your mind you know you should try again

 

[mitiempo]

snooks
With 25mm2 cable, which is close to 3awg in size, that is 7% drop. Probably functional but nowhere near ideal. To end up with less than 3% drop you have to use 2/0 which is 67.4mm2 - big difference but the way to do this as far as I'm concerned. This is with a 50' cable run.

 

[tabernacleman]

Solar panel

Fitted windlass last year and used seperate battery forward charged with small solar panel held on front windows with suction pads, simple wiring, I spread my cruising between buoys, marinas and anchoring so do not forsee much of a problem, if however the battery becomes flat I will have to resort to the winch handle.

 

[snooks]

snooks
With 25mm2 cable, which is close to 3awg in size, that is 7% drop. Probably functional but nowhere near ideal. To end up with less than 3% drop you have to use 2/0 which is 67.4mm2 - big difference but the way to do this as far as I'm concerned. This is with a 50' cable run.

I was just going by what the downloads say from Lewmar's website....The windlass motor is 700W the current draw is 80A

And the owners manual for the V2 (link to the download of the PDF)

 

[cimo]

I suggest your friend looks at their installation, it shouldn't be like that. Occasionally on some installations the chain pile needs a kick to stop it fouling the rode...a traffic cone in the bottom of the locker where the chain pyramids up will stop this....Or SS chain, the first is a LOT cheaper than the later.

We're going electric with a drum so my girlfriend can hoist me out of the water, or up the mast with the minimum of fuss and bother.

The other consideration is I've had back trouble in the past (one of the joys of humping a heavy camera bag around) and don't want to risk my back anchoring several days in a row.

Finally it's also a safety aspect, if something is easy to do it will get done often.....after having to relay an anchor 4 or 5 times without a windlass, there will be a time when you'll say "that'll do" when really in your mind you know you should try again

off course snooks - he needs to sort out his locker. I thought it a somewhat humerous tale considering the small fortune the young man (in the full rudness of health) spent installing and maintaining the system.

Sorry to hear about your back issues.

further to safety - I really detest those windlass remote control systems. I understand the idea is to be able to operate from a distance such as the cockpit? With such a powerfull motor, I'd want to have it in sight at all times.

rgds
c

 

[mitiempo]

snooks
I was using 1000 watts for my wire calcs. 1000 watts is 84 amps. If it is 700 watts it is only 58 amps, not 80. But even 58 amps requires 1/0 for a 3% drop and 2/0 for a 2% drop. Lewmar states the drop should not in any circumstances exceed 10%. If your battery is 12.9 volts, typical for a charged battery that means the voltage at the windlass with 10% drop is 11.61 volts which is equivalent to 15% charged. If you run the engine the voltage at the battery will be higher but the drop of 10% will also be higher. The windlass as any motor will wear out a lot sooner if subject to low voltages. Lewmar's 10% is a worst case number and I would aim for as little drop as possible, ideally 2%. Bigger is always better in wires when motors are being powered.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Snooks....
Finally it's also a safety aspect, if something is easy to do it will get done often.....after having to relay an anchor 4 or 5 times without a windlass, there will be a time when you'll say "that'll do" when really in your mind you know you should try again

Well thats sounds as if you have a CQR

 

[snooks]

Snooks....
Finally it's also a safety aspect, if something is easy to do it will get done often.....after having to relay an anchor 4 or 5 times without a windlass, there will be a time when you'll say "that'll do" when really in your mind you know you should try again

Well thats sounds as if you have a CQR

Not anymore ...I bought a Spade at LIBS this year

I just know what my luck is like when it comes to finding a patch of rock covered with gravel

 

[vyv_cox]

further to safety - I really detest those windlass remote control systems. I understand the idea is to be able to operate from a distance such as the cockpit? With such a powerfull motor, I'd want to have it in sight at all times.

For stern-to berthing a cockpit windlass control is the perfect system. Being able to control both the boat speeed/direction and simultaneously the amount of chain being lowered/hoisted makes this manoeuvre a doddle, particularly with only two on board. We mostly leave a berth, or an anchorage, by raising the windlass from the foredeck.

 

[Graham_Wright]

.
Have you checked the local scrap metal yard? They often have very new looking cable with heavy duty protective cover, perfect for this. They are off-cuts from high voltage welding leads.

Hope this helps, I have used them a number of times over the years when installing anchor winches for clients.

I thought I was the only scrappy fan!

I've used dual concentric cable from the scrapyard. It comprises an outer sheath inside which is a layer comprising 4 Ø2 earth conductors and 11 individually (but lightly) insulated Ø1.6 neutral conductors, then a substantial sheath enclosing 7 Ø2 live conductors. With all the insulation removed the whole total of 22 conductors is crimped into a lug. The cross sectional area is around 57 sq mm. Two of these provide the "go" and "return" to the winch. For around 30m I think the cost was about a tenner.

This cable is rumoured to be local to the MEB (now ?) area and was/is used as a substitute for amoured cable for underground supplies.