Powerboat / bowrider - Depreciation / 2nd Hand Value

[Loxley]

Hi all, new to this forum and just testing the water so to speak with a question or two.

I am looking to buy a 22foot bowrider ( 2nd hand ) from a dealer who is also the manufacturers importer. The question I have is... is there a general rule of depreciation for a boat from new or a means to value if the boat is reasonably priced ?

I appreciate this is a very wide open question, but the 'screen price' for this boat a ( 2003 model with 80 hours on a 6.2MX engine ) is about 75% of the dealers brand new model. I dont want to spend more than I have to, we are talking £30k used vs £40k new but weighing up the benefit of 'new to me' etc against taking that first 'down the slipway' hit on the residual.

The boat will be my first 'move up' from a 17ft bowrider and so I want to make sure I am choosing/buying the right thing for me as my existing (first ) boat only cost me £7000 last summer. I didnt want to spend too much in case I didnt enjoy the lark, but my girlfriend and I have really taken to the water and enjoy nearly every weekend on it, hence looking for something larger.

informed opinion would be much appreciated.

Mark

 

[Chas25]

Hi Mark,

30k sounds like a lot for a 22ft bowrider new never mind second hand!! what is it?

 

[Whitelighter]

er, it all depends on what it is and how easily can you get one really. Has the dealer got a car park full of new ones for £40k? Or is there a years waiting list for one at that price?

How 'used' is the used boat? Is it an ex demo boat with a few hours on the clock or a boat that has been used hard every weekend toying skiers and toys?

For a boat that is 4 years old, I would expect to pay 35% less than the cost of a new boat NOW (not what the boat cost new then). So if the boat is £40k now, I would expect to be paying about £26k today. That said, if you can't get em, and this is the only one for sale, and you really like i tthen you'll have to pay what he is asking.

Supply and demand is probably the biggest influencer on the value of used boats. All IMHO.

 

[Alistairr]

Sounds like a Rinker or Regal but probably wrong.

We did the same we started with a small Cuddy, at £5k, had a great first year, and went out and bought a brand new Rinker at £34k, reason we decided on new, was the second hand price was still fairly high, and we were offered £7k for trade in. more that we had bought it for, and when looking at finance, we were getting a better rate for a new boat that a secondhand, and that rate meant about £10 a month difference between a used boat and a new boat, so we went for the new boat.

If taking finance, get full quote for both options, and weigh it up then.

Cheer

Al.

 

[Loxley]

Well the dealer has only a few left to sell both new and used. The £40k price on the new one is a discount of nearly 10% from list price anyway. Which brings me on to my second question.

What's a reasonable haggle price on any new boat ?

One dealer I visited recently immediately offered a £41500 'new' boat to me for £37500 if i had no p/x.
So is a 10% haggle margin the norm?

As for the choice of boat, its down to the missus liking it or not ! And the Cobalt is her sexy favourite at the moment ! LOL

 

[Whitelighter]

well, haggle price again depends on the boat, availibilty and weather the dealer has loads of stock or not.

Also consider this, you are not that special and probably no better a negotiator than the next bloke, so if you are getting an immediate 10% off, so is everyone else. I personally would not want to buy a boat where the first thing the dealer says is 'I'll give you x% off' - how does he know, without qualification etc etc etc you will even buy the boat at that.

Anything can be sold on price, so if he is doing it with you, he'll be doing it with everyone so when you come to sell your boat in two years you'll be faced with 'but I can get a new one at xx% off, so your must be at least xx% lower than that'

No-one wins. Short term gain for long term loss. Low volume desirable boats you might only get 1 or 2% off after a load of haggling, but funnily enough it is these boats that hold there money so you get the extra back.

 

[chuckaduck]

30 k seems a waste of money can get similar on ebay for approx 15k

but 25k can get a lot more see this

 

[landlockedpirate]

The cobalt is a very nice boat, take care if you are buying it through SQM. I have bought quite a few seadoo's through them over the years and have always got good deals, however I know that they have a habit of 'stretching' the truth a bit. Check the deal very carefully, confirm all the details/options and get it in writing.

The market for larger bowriders is limited and I think this will be your problem when it comes to resale. Cuddies seem to have better residuals, but if the bowrider is the one you want theres not a lot you can do.

Mark

 

[chuckaduck]

Currenty i have a 2250 bayliner capri bowrider which is great but I must say I woud prefer a cuddy now only for one thing though

with a cuddy swmbo can go to the loo its ok for us chaps on a bowrider but not for chapesses

 

[landlockedpirate]

I love the idea of a bowrider, loads of room and great for going out with friends and family. The cuddy is just so much more practical, toilet, somewhere to store all the junk, a place for daddy to sleep off lunchtime drinkies /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif etc.



Mark

 

[duncan]

welcome

as others have said it's supply and demand

the good news is you are a cash buyer

the bad news is that you are buying mid june - by early september the price will fall significantly!

additionally your questions alone are a good example of why boat prices are marked high and discounted - from the new they seem to offer a great deal. SH marked prices indicate low depreciation.......but are often even more discounted by the time a deal is struck!

finally you are getting a maunufacturer warantee with a new boat - different ball game with a second hand boat completely. if you are not storing and using the boat near the dealer then this difference is even larger.

 

[Jim44]

That boat must weight well over 3.5 tonnes the legal maxium.

I am looking for a trailerable boat and have been advised that a single engines 24ft is the limit. A twin engined 27ft must be well over.

 

[Whitelighter]

It looks like it is in the US, and they ave much more lax trailering laws than over here.

 

[BrendanS]

You mean the one on ebay? It says in the blurb it's moored in Weymouth

 

[Whitelighter]

fair enough

 

[JamesTT]

Loxley, i guess it`s a 220?
If so I had one in 04, great boat loads of room and quick.
Where are you planning to use it?

 

[LAMBADA]

As a cobalt owner I would also recommend them excellent quality and seakeeping.

 

[gjgm]

2003.. Id say between 25-35 pct off. As Jez is saying though, it comes down to how much the dealer wants to shift it, and how much you want this particular boat. Just remember when buying that your enthusiasm may not be matched by buyers when you come to sell. You can rationalise for ever, but in the end a boat is a big waste of money anyway !! Cobalt do make fine boats, but they are very top end price, and a larger bowrider is a very small market. Combine the two, and I dont think its an easy boat for anyone to sell. you got about half a season left.. I d offer another 10pct less..that is more on your terms, and Id say 35pct off is more realistic for a 4 year old boat. I really dont think he is going to have people queuing up.. but there will a price below which he wont go anyway. As others have said.. just depends hw much you want it- but at 25pct, I think it is you who is going to take a £3k extra hit when selling.
And, just to repeat, please be aware, its a very very small market for larger bowriders, but if its the boat for you (and i ve had two myself-love then-) then go for it. No point in buying a boat you dont really want.

 

[Loxley]

Well the boat is 'not stock', but is being sold on brokerage. his 2 'stock boats' both have 496HO engines and more hours, albeit also more 'history'. I dont really want to go as large as an 8 litre. I know fuel economy is a long piece of string, but I am guessing that a larger boat will be more efficient with a decent size engine rather than a smaller capacity one.

As for cuddy or open bow, as i am over 6'3", anything enclosed is going to be too small for me. storage space isnt an issue with this as boat as there is oodles of it. to be honest, we havent sat in a cuddy, but it does seem that you then lose the bow area 'sun lounging spot'. My 2 sons are as tall as me and at 19 and 22 are more interested in 'pulling/posing' power than anything else.

my main use is for wakeboarding, towing 2-3 friends with toys and just pottering up and down the bays from abersoch to porthmadog, i cant really see myself venturing any further.

as for privacy for the pilot ( i hardly get a look on driving, other than taking it out of the marina and running her up the slipway on to the trailer ! ) I suggested a boat with an enclosed head, but its a case of finding one and she is happy to bare all at present !! LOL

oh, and I wont be tugging the boat anywhere as i will continue with my park and launch arrangement at the marina in Pwllheli.

Getting back to the price, the 'current' owner has put the boat up for sale as he has ordered a brand new one, so the price at present is on 'his demand', how much i can negotiate down is as you say down to my bargaining skills.

I do have in mind we are half way through and I have effectively 11 or 12 weekends use left ( weather permitting ).

It is a fair chunk of money and i know there are cheaper boats, but they are all generally older. My best friend thought he had a bargain with his 22 footer and has then ended up spending nearly half as much again on mechanical repairs and its been off the water more than on ( oh and he did have a survey done on it too ! ). I would rather buy "peace of mind" and just be able to turn up, turn the key and go and other than the usual grease, oil, steering checks would leave the mechanics to those that know ! Being an accountant I know the cost of time and relative cost of me doing something or paying someone to do it for me ! LOL

I appreciate everyone's opinion, so do keep them coming in. I have a week before I am able to get back to view the boat again as it's the other halves big 40 party this weekend.

Mark

 

[Whitelighter]

Sounds like you have done your research and no what you want out of a boat. It is true that larger bowriders are less common here than cuddys, but for your purposes it sounds like the perfect boat.

Cobalt are a quality manufacturer, and there will always be a market for their boats, just perhaps a little smaller than others. I say go for it...