Power vs Sail, is it just about the money?

[Halcyon Yachts]

I have just got back from two quite short deliveries; the first was on board a sailing boat, a Jeanneau 40 DS, going from Lowestoft to Brighton.

The second was on board a powerboat, a Beneteau GT44, going from Rochester to Hamble (I have posted the video of that one on the Motor Boat Forum if you are interested).

It crossed my mind during the second trip that one of the biggest differences is to do with cost, and therefore perhaps it is this fundamental issue that creates the divide and results in hatred for powerboats. I am making an assumption here (based on observation) that most yachties dislike power, yet power-boaters often admire yachts.

I am and always have been a sailor first and foremost. Through my job I have also been involved with many powerboats. Both trips were text book in the sense that we had following winds of around 15kts the whole way to Brighton, and then completely calm and flat conditions for the GT44 going to Hamble. Although tiring, both trips were very enjoyable. I hate to admit it though that Skippering the GT44 was perhaps my preferred trip… Having said that, I just don’t think I could ever own a boat like the GT44 simply because of the running costs. Even if I were to win the lottery I think I would find it so painful to see the ongoing fuel bills that the enjoyment would be taken away (at a conservative cruising speed of 20 kts we were burning 80 lts an hour). So my question is whether or not this is the fundamental difference? Sailors, no matter how rich, are above all (like me) skin flints. The appeal of being on the water and harnessing the natural power is nothing to do with peace and tranquility, but just the feeling of getting something for nothing?!? Power boaters on the other hand have less concern about financial extravagance and are happy to enjoy their hobby without looking at the figures too closely…

Is it that we sailors are just too tight to be drawn to the dark side?

Pete

 

[tidclacy]

On sailing boats to be there on power boats to get there.

 

[Blueboatman]

Hear hear ( the mobos banging along, every bloody wave and reflected landmass thru the Solent).
Personally I am delighted that fuel is so expensive. I know that 20 miles off ( in silence) I am unlikely to see either a Shell refuel dock or a sub 50 ft mobo.
And yes I have driven ( is that the word) the things and parked em. Bit dull fer me, I like the sail thing. And considering all the bling and pampering that is packed within, crikey they bang and slam at sea. Clever you for taking more money off em ( joke)

 

[savageseadog]

Why would I hate powerboats or their owners? There's plenty of water for all of us.

 

[jwilson]

The interesting one is that the Dashews (after designing and cruising in some very fast, efficient sailing yachts) now cruise a powerboat, though not a typical gin palace - see http://www.dashewoffshore.com/do_paradigm.asp

The logic is that a big fast sailing yacht such as Dashew's Sundeer etc., costs so much in extra structure (eg keel, rig etc.) weight and cost (including replacment sails, riggings, etc.), that the powerboat is overall cheaper to run. This ties in with sailing "superyachts" often making delivery passages under engine to save sail and rig wear and tear.

I still don't quite want a powerboat though, but if anyone has a Sundeer or Beowulf type going free I'd be first in the queue. http://www.dashewoffshore.com/do_beowulf.asp

 

[SeaStu1]

You may have a point here. I was out yesterday in my 20ft, sub 5k yacht. Its 30 years old, its slow and its showing its age. As l was travelling west l was passed by 2 mobo's both going at some knots. Neither done any harm to me, the only effect was a bit of wash which to be honest brightened up an otherwise dull spell during the day as at the time these was no wind and the noise of my outboard was ringing in my ears trying to achieve 4 knots.

I immediately felt resentment to the mobos but why? They were minding they're own business like l was minding mine. I think it was a touch of jealousy as l will never be able to afford anything to do with the mobo. They probably would not want to swap places with me, but given the chance l would love to have the chance of skippering a high power mobo, owning is never going to happen. The skipper on board could be the nicest bloke going, who knows. Is it the same thing when you see someone in a flash car?

 

[benjenbav]

I thought it was all just banter, like the English pretend to dislike the Welsh until the chips are down and then we all stand side by side.

 

[lustyd]

I have a 20' sail boat, my mum has a 22' power boat. I have spent CONSIDERABLY more on propulsion than she has in the last few years for a similar mileage. I'm sure the same is true of most sizes of boat unless doing serious offshore international mileages. Diesel is not expensive for what you get, sails are a complete rip off (due to fabric costs rather than sailmakers).

 

[Athene V30]

I like both, have my own 27' sloop and crew a friends 45' Princess from time to time. All the fun but not the cost!

 

[dylanwinter]

there is a beauty in the physics of sailing boats that does not exist in the engineering of mobos

 

[lustyd]

there is a beauty in the physics of sailing boats that does not exist in the engineering of mobos

Depends on the boat. There are Italian speedboats (the James Bond wooden ones) which don't need trim because the shape is correct at any speed. I quite like that. I'll accept that most of them look like ice cream tubs with cushions but there are some real gems.

 

[WestWittering]

On sailing boats to be there on power boats to get there.

I think that is very true. On my recent jaunt to Cherbourg my friend & I took a MOBO owner along as crew. We had lovely weather, great sea, perfect tides. He could not get his head round that after arriving at Cherbourg day 1 was too windy, day 2 was too windy, day 3 it was foggy, day 4 no wind and therefore we would not be going anywhere. In fact we did go out day 4 and tried to reset the auto-tiller and sailed back (drifted would probably be a better description) at 1 knot.

The major things about the trip he disliked was that we had no fridge (he has two), we were subject to tides (he isn't apparently) and the pully bits, flappy bits & sticky bits were no fun and really confusing to him. Also, I refused his offer of his head torch to lower the main sail (as it wasn't necessary to undo one bit of string and pull up two others. A huge debate on equipment then began, including why radar is brilliant because you can actually SET OFF in fog......

My other friend & I had a great time, boat is clean & very, very tidy now, we made some good friends and there will only be two of us (females) sailing her back hurrah!!

Di

 

[Halcyon Yachts]

On sailing boats to be there on power boats to get there.

I enjoyed being there as much as I do on a yacht...

Pete

 

[Halcyon Yachts]

I enjoyed being there as much as I do on a yacht...

Pete

Actually, that's probably not true; things are always relative. The GT44 is a pretty nice powerboat, and it was fun. I have been fortunate enough to sail on some extremely nice yachts too which I don't think could be bettered by any powerboat...

 

[Solent sailer]

I think there is something in the original post, i do find it very satisfying planing and sailing a long (ish) passage calculating the tides and sailing the whole way. The thought of getting there for nothing (we have very old sails and i don't regard any ware and tare as costing anything).

if i was in a real hurry i would go by car, far more comfortable than a fast motor boat and i can use it during the week not just weekends.

 

[Athene V30]

The major things about the trip he disliked was that we had no fridge (he has two), we were subject to tides (he isn't apparently) and the pully bits, flappy bits & sticky bits were no fun and really confusing to him. A huge debate on equipment then began, including why radar is brilliant because you can actually SET OFF in fog......

I can see why someone used to a Mobo would find a sailing boat odd - the bit about tides - if you cruise at 15knts then a 2 knot current against you isn't a big deal, at 5 knots it is! As a sailor used to a Bermudan rig I would be confused on a smack. But even with radar I doubt I would actually set off in fog. Radar is only as good as the kit and operator and I bet a lot of casual users do not tune it / use it to its potential.

 

[rbcoomer]

Alternative perspective...

Perhaps our circumstances are unusual, but the opposite is the case for us!

Reasons for NOT having a sailing boat:

• Cost of mooring and maintenance - irrespective of use. Plus lifts, cost of sails/rigging etc.
• Time to get anywhere and to maintain (we both work 50+ hours a week and have young family so a day is maximum spell of use)
• Missus hates the slow pace and heeling
• Limited exploration of inshore gems, rivers etc

Reasons for Mobo:

• Minimal cost - zero when 'moored' on driveway and funds are tight. Self maintained and no cost if not used.
• Can potter along a river/coastline at 4kts or if out of time, called to work etc can head home at 30kts+
• Missus loves speed!

In reality, we love being out on the water first and foremost - the means to achieve is secondary. If we had a sailing boat however, then not only would I be going solo but the opportunities would be even fewer than they are currently. Yes, I'd still enjoy it - but it would become a more self-focused hobby than a shared family pleasure.

We'll no doubt progress through bigger vessels in order to travel further, but will almost certainly stay under 27'/28' and trailed. Thus the cost balance stays in favor of a Mobo. Once you get into moorings/marina berths, the fixed costs rise significantly and up to a point fuel costs are still a minor factor unless retired and using every week! I confess that I've never launched 20' sailing boat single handed - I'm sure it's possible, but I wouldn't relish the idea...

Dylan, not sure I agree about the beauty viewpoint either as most modern sailing boats have little appeal to me aesthetically - unlike a classic wooden ketch or period Sunseeker!

(All IMHO of course!)

 

[V1701]

It's not just the money. When the wind's right (ahem), you switch off the engine & the boat's sailing well, what a feeling it is to be quietly travelling just using the power of the wind. I wouldn't/couldn't have a gas guzzling dirty great mobo no matter how much money I had, just doesn't do it for me & burning all that fossil fuel has got to be a bit irresponsible at best hasn't it - heard of a guy who allegedly had a fuel bill of £40k to bring a boat back from the Med. But then if that's what does it for you & you can afford it, who am I to criticise...

 

[Elessar]

I can see why someone used to a Mobo would find a sailing boat odd - the bit about tides - if you cruise at 15knts then a 2 knot current against you isn't a big deal, at 5 knots it is! As a sailor used to a Bermudan rig I would be confused on a smack. But even with radar I doubt I would actually set off in fog. Radar is only as good as the kit and operator and I bet a lot of casual users do not tune it / use it to its potential.

Don't forget, most motor boaters are sailors and choose the mobo. To find one confused by a Bermudan rig or slow speed nav is the exception rather than the rule.

Tides BTW in a mobo if travelling at speed you would choose to go against the tide rather than suffer wind over tide. It is still considered.

 

[Athene V30]

Don't forget, most motor boaters are sailors and choose the mobo. To find one confused by a Bermudan rig or slow speed nav is the exception rather than the rule.

Tides BTW in a mobo if travelling at speed you would choose to go against the tide rather than suffer wind over tide. It is still considered.

I wasn't generalising, I was replying to a post. I have been sailing from the age of 12 and used to drive ships from 50 to 20000 tonnes for a living!