Possible causes of genoa jamming?

[steve yates]

Genny is only unrolling halfway. Rewound whole furling line twice and had it rolling in and out, albeit I couldn't get a tight furl. Of course, soon as I left the bouy and tried to deploy in anger, it jammed halfway out again. It jams unrolling with the stb sheet. It wont unroll very far with the port sheet but prob cos the genny backs if i try it.
The drum turns anticlickwise when furling, the line runs down the port hand side, it is 5 or 6 mm, whatever the max size the hole could take. The forestay seems to bounce a bit when furling and it could prob be tighter. I’m going to replace the standing rigging st some point as i cant tighten the top shrouds as tight as i would like and the forestay has never been bar taught, but thats neither here nor there today.
Its been an issue ever since the sail was flogging and some coiks jped off the drum and jammed.
Any suggestions for causes, tricks to try or simple things I might be getting wrong?

 

[LittleSister]

All guesswork, but I suspect loose forestay is the root of the problem, but check
- is the genoa halyard becoming wrapped round the forestay?
- you haven't ended up with riding turns, or some other tangle, in the drum?
- bearing jamming (perhaps due to salt or gunk)?
- is there a sort of fairlead guiding the line onto the drum, and has it become displaced?.

Hope you manage to get it sorted.

 

[STATUE]

Yep, it was for me a loose forestay. Try tweeking your backstay/s , but only a little. If that doesn't do it, then it's the fun of getting to the forestay turnbuckle. Good luck

 

[Daydream believer]

Halyard tension, Furling drum filling with line in one part of drum, because feeder not lining up properly, Furling line catching on something further aft,( is it chaffed somewhere & catching on a fairlead? or is it catching on a locker lid etc?) Halyard wrap at head due to slack halyard. Halyard catching in another halyard ( ie spinnaker halyard) causing it to jam at head & difficult to see from deck. Opposite sheet catching & you are not pulling the clew at all, but are pulling against a jammed jib sheet from the opposite tack. ( check friction)
A tie line somewhere getting caught in the head of the furler ie from the leach of the sail ( drop the sail & check the top drum)

 

[Chiara’s slave]

As per Daydream believer, we can jam ours at will by getting any of that wrong. And if the halyard tension is high, it’s a complete bastard to unfurl or furl. Must admit I haven’t tried with loose runners, because that would be grim on our boat for several reasons, not least because they are part of the triple lock to hold the boat unfolded for sailing

 

[Refueler]

Common problem ... if the forestay is not tensioned enough ... when you pull on furling line or sheet to 'turn' the assembly - the lower section basically pulls slightly out of line ... the extrusion then binds on the forestay ....

In extreme - you can in fact start to cause stay to open up its lay ... then you are really stuffed !!

I really do not like reading that you can only unfurl halfway before it jams .... sorry to frighten you - but I have only seen that happen when either of two has occurred :

Forestay construction has suffered and it literally twists as you furl / unfurl ....

or

Another possibility ......... Have you looked at top of forestay when furling / unfurling ? Is the halyard wrapping around the forestay as you turn the furler ?

Can you turn the furling system by hand on the drum ?? Is it relatively free moving ?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Common problem ... if the forestay is not tensioned enough ... when you pull on furling line or sheet to 'turn' the assembly - the lower section basically pulls slightly out of line ... the extrusion then binds on the forestay ....

In extreme - you can in fact start to cause stay to open up its lay ... then you are really stuffed !!

I really do not like reading that you can only unfurl halfway before it jams .... sorry to frighten you - but I have only seen that happen when either of two has occurred :

Forestay construction has suffered and it literally twists as you furl / unfurl ....

or

Another possibility ......... Have you looked at top of forestay when furling / unfurling ? Is the halyard wrapping around the forestay as you turn the furler ?

Can you turn the furling system by hand on the drum ?? Is it relatively free moving ?

Be careful of turning the furling drum by hand you may just unwind the forestay.

 

[Refueler]

Be careful of turning the furling drum by hand you may just unwind the forestay.

???? What is difference of pulling on a furling line to turn the drum and that of using hand ?

The only difference is actually by hand you will not be pulling drum and furler towards where line is coming from ... and is why I asked ...

If OP can turn drum relatively easily by hand - it may indicate that furling assembly when using line or sheet is being pulled and then binding on the stay.... likely as stay is as I read may not be sufficiently tensioned.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

???? What is difference of pulling on a furling line to turn the drum and that of using hand ?

The only difference is actually by hand you will not be pulling drum and furler towards where line is coming from ... and is why I asked ...

If OP can turn drum relatively easily by hand - it may indicate that furling assembly when using line or sheet is being pulled and then binding on the stay.... likely as stay is as I read may not be sufficiently tensioned.

If something is jammed then something is going to have to give if you apply force somewhere but go ahead it was just a word of caution, it's your forestay and boat.

 

[Refueler]

If something is jammed then something is going to have to give if you apply force somewhere but go ahead it was just a word of caution, it's your forestay and boat.

1. Applying force ?? I asked OP if he could turn it easily by hand ... Quote :> "Can you turn the furling system by hand on the drum ?? Is it relatively free moving ?" Second quote :> "If OP can turn drum relatively easily by hand - it may indicate that furling assembly when using line or sheet is being pulled and then binding on the stay.... likely as stay is as I read may not be sufficiently tensioned."

2. It is not my boat not my forestay.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

1. Applying force ?? I asked OP if he could turn it easily by hand ... Quote :> "Can you turn the furling system by hand on the drum ?? Is it relatively free moving ?" Second quote :> "If OP can turn drum relatively easily by hand - it may indicate that furling assembly when using line or sheet is being pulled and then binding on the stay.... likely as stay is as I read may not be sufficiently tensioned."

2. It is not my boat not my forestay.

And I offered the advice to be careful when turning a furling drum by hand when the line won't do it.

Perhaps it's a good job that it isn't your boat and forestay.

 

[Refueler]

And I offered the advice to be careful when turning a furling drum by hand when the line won't do it.

Perhaps it's a good job that it isn't your boat and forestay.

You don't give up do you ... even to modifying your 'intent' .....

And given your last quoted here - shows you have failed to read OP's first post fully.

 

[roaringgirl]

If there's nothing jamming the sheets or the furling line, then my money is on halyard wrap.

Something in your original post doesn't make sense to me and may be relevant - you say you're going to replace the standing rigging because you can't get enough tension in it - why not? How much tension do you want? What happens when you try?

 

[steve yates]

To work backwards, re loose rigging overall, i cant get full tendion on the cap shrouds, even when the bottle screws are as far as they can go, the lowers and backstay I can get tight.

Re forestay tension, it was better than this when I put the mast back up a couple of years ago, I should check the backstays and the forestay bottlescrew.

I can furll the drum by hand easily both ways when i take off the furling line and let out the sail.

I couldnt see any halyard wrap, but i probably need to look again with my glasses on

Halyard tension I didnt check, it hasn't been touched since sail hauled up two years ago, so it could have slackened off.

Its not sheets or furler catching , i’ve done that plenty times. This is a consistent issue now, it started yesterday but i had already been sailing for 5 days. The sail hadn't been furling tightly and well as it used to, I had refurled the line on my winter trip when it had dll jumped of the drum and snarled. I had assumed I hadnt done a good job of reloading it, Its not something I find very intuitive or easy to do, it just never seems obvious and slick.

Just anchored and tea is on, i’ll jave another go at it tomorrow morning.

 

[Sandy]

When was the drum washed with fresh water?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

You don't give up do you ... even to modifying your 'intent' .....

And given your last quoted here - shows you have failed to read OP's first post fully.

I was replying to you not Steve

 

[Daydream believer]

Do not get new rigging. Stick some packing under the mast foot. That is what I did on my deck stepped 12.5 m long mast. I just put a filler under the shaped mast pad & put the bolts back through that as well as the original mast foot.

 

[oldbloke]

Which boat is this? If it is the Bradwell then shortening the shrouds by using lashings rather than the chain plates or screws , or even (as a very temporary proof of concept) by tensioning the shrouds together with a Spanish windlass or similar should give enough rig tension to see if that is the issue.
Not so easy on a big boat though.

 

[roaringgirl]

The rigging wires won't lengthen in use over time, so if the bottlescrews position has changed to achieve the correct tension, there is some other problem that needs addressing (perhaps urgently).

Regarding your unfurling problem, if it is doable by turning the drum with your hands then it's not halyard wrap. Is the furling rope jamming the drum once you get past a certain point?

 

[Daydream believer]

The rigging wires won't lengthen in use over time,

Mine did. Twice. Both sets each changed at 10 years. This last set just fitted has been cut 25mm shorter than the set just removed on uppers, mids, lowers . Original fixed length forestay has been sustituted with an adjustable one, so not sure if that has been affected