shan
Well-Known Member
Our Fiscal number has our Welsh address.
Portuguese residency - current situation - advice needed
- Thread starter webcraft
- Start date
Beneteau381
Well-Known Member
And so has ours
nortada
Well-Known Member
We have had our fiscal numbered for 19 years and the ‘boat’ is our address - back then no one put much importance on addresses.
Don’t think the address will have much impact.
When we first got here, we cautiously asked about taxation. The verbal answer we got was, if you are in Portugal for 6 months, we may ask you to do a tax return to reflect income generated in Portugal.
We explained that all of our income was from U.K. government pensions and we paid tax at source. The response was that as you have no income generated in Portugal, then we will not require a tax return.
As a precaution at the time, we established that if required, we would be able to get a book-keeper to help submits a simple tax return, confirming no Portuguese income tax liability, for less than €100!
But times change and we have no written confirmation of the original conversation.
If push becomes shove, we will get help to complete a tax return but of course, unlike in the U.K., married couples are taxed jointly, which could be an advantage.
shan
Well-Known Member
We have had to take tax advice due to various travel and work implications. I have .pdf booklet by EuroFinesco, which is quite detailed about Portuguese tax implications, if anyone wants me to email it to them. PM me your email addy and I will duly send it through, if anyone wants.
nortada
Well-Known Member
Yes please.
Problem in Portugal, whatever the rules, it all comes down to the official you are dealing with o the day and to quote their rules to them is not a good strategy
GHA
Well-Known Member
Was that before xmas? Had a look the other day & getting a fiscal number doesn't seem so easy as it was, for brits anyway.... istr seeing something about non eu addresses not being accepted, maybe that was bank accounts though.
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shan
Well-Known Member
We got our Fiscal number a few years ago. We got our lawyer to do the application for us. I believe that if you are from a Non-EU country, you need a Fiscal Representative - we pay €300 a year for our lawyer to represent us.
webcraft
Well-Known Member
So glad we got in under the wire.
- W
- W
nortada
Well-Known Member
Others should be able to confirm but It is my understanding, you only need a Fiscal Representative if you you are not a Portuguese Resident.
When we got ours we were not residents but just went to the Tax Office, gave the boat as our address and paid our €5.
As always, I think it is down to local policy and the official on the day.
But times change.
shan
Well-Known Member
We weren't resident when we applied for our Fiscal number (we have only become 'resident' last year) and having a Fiscal representative has been useful for us as there have been a few things we have needed sorting out. It is of course not so much necessary for us as it is convenient.
greeny
Well-Known Member
As I understood it some years ago when the need for fiscal representation was dropped for UK people:-
If you were EU citizen (included UK at that time.) the requirement for fiscal representation when you got your NIF was dropped from the requirements. So I went to the finances and told them I no longer needed one as a EU citizen and that they should remove the reference and name of my representative from my affairs which they did.
Non EU citizens still had to have fiscal representation to get a NIF though.
Now, anyone new from UK who is asking for a NIF will probably need fiscal representative as all other third countries do.
If you are a UK citizen and already a Portuguese resident and are asking for a NIF (not sure how you get in this position although I believe it's happened to some), I'm not sure what they will ask for.
nortada
Well-Known Member
Agree all you say; our circumstances completely but at the risk of being picky, we are residents, not citizens.
My current understanding is that UK nationals, residence in Portugal, can get a fiscal number, without representation.
Having recently gone through the procedure Webby may be able to shed further light on it.
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webcraft
Well-Known Member
The difficult bit was getting an appointment. I got my Portuguese DIL to do it for us. The appointments were then emailed to us.
We showed our Residency certificates and our passports and paid E15. It took ten minutes. We got our numbers on a mostly blank form.
Totally struggling with the Formulario De Inscricao De Utentes though, which I believe is an application for an SNS number. The Sistema de Saude section seems to want the very number we are applying for.
- W
Graham376
Well-Known Member
Most likely difficult now due to Covid restrictions but, a few years ago, I just turned up at local Centro de Saude and said I wanted to register with a doctor. All done in about 10 mins and no need for S1, which some applicants have been told is necessary.
greeny
Well-Known Member
I can only tell you about my wife's experience back in November in her attempt to get a Utente number.
She went to the Saude and was refused and was told she had to have a Social security number and an S1 first. Went to the Social office and couldn't see them because of covid. Had to make an appointment. Appointment made but had to wait 3 weeks for it. Attended the appointment and explained what she needed. The lady said that they (Saude) were wrong and we should go back and demand our Utente and we didn't need a social number at all. We knew that wouldn't work so asked them for a letter explaining this to the Saude. They gave us the letter to explain this but re-iterated that it wasn't necessary. I suggested maybe they should call the Saude and tell them. That was met with a "not possible." response.
So, having the letter we walked the 200 metres to the Saude and waited in the queue. Told the security guard what we were there for and he went and got an administrator to deal with us at the door. It was a different lady than we had seen some 3 weeks before. I gave her the letter from the Social and she said she was aware of that fact and confirmed that we didn't need the social number that the previous lady and sent us away to get. She took the details off my wife, no mention of S1 and less than ten minutes later she returned with my wife's Utente. Easy peasy second time round.
I asked if she might have time to explain to the previous lady what the requirements were to obtain Utente for a UK person. She declined because the other lady was her superior and didn't want to cause problems.
A perfect example of how who you ask, when you ask and what mood they're in, can severely alter your chances of success in any government office.
Friends of mine went the week after and were lucky and saw the second lady, they got both Utentes in less than an hour including waiting time. Again no requirement for Social number or S1.
This was all at Lagoa Saude.
She went to the Saude and was refused and was told she had to have a Social security number and an S1 first. Went to the Social office and couldn't see them because of covid. Had to make an appointment. Appointment made but had to wait 3 weeks for it. Attended the appointment and explained what she needed. The lady said that they (Saude) were wrong and we should go back and demand our Utente and we didn't need a social number at all. We knew that wouldn't work so asked them for a letter explaining this to the Saude. They gave us the letter to explain this but re-iterated that it wasn't necessary. I suggested maybe they should call the Saude and tell them. That was met with a "not possible." response.
So, having the letter we walked the 200 metres to the Saude and waited in the queue. Told the security guard what we were there for and he went and got an administrator to deal with us at the door. It was a different lady than we had seen some 3 weeks before. I gave her the letter from the Social and she said she was aware of that fact and confirmed that we didn't need the social number that the previous lady and sent us away to get. She took the details off my wife, no mention of S1 and less than ten minutes later she returned with my wife's Utente. Easy peasy second time round.
I asked if she might have time to explain to the previous lady what the requirements were to obtain Utente for a UK person. She declined because the other lady was her superior and didn't want to cause problems.
A perfect example of how who you ask, when you ask and what mood they're in, can severely alter your chances of success in any government office.
Friends of mine went the week after and were lucky and saw the second lady, they got both Utentes in less than an hour including waiting time. Again no requirement for Social number or S1.
This was all at Lagoa Saude.
nortada
Well-Known Member
greeny
Well-Known Member
No she isn't but the two friends who got theirs the week after are both receiving government pensions. Seems like they dodged it with the needing of the S1 and weren't even asked for it.Just for confirmation, is your better half in receipt of a UK pension
JUSTINHALEWOOD
Active Member
Hi Webcraft, we're looking at doing the same as you. It would be great to make contact and hear of your experience - would you be open to a phone call? We're based in Portsmouth and looking to leave for Portugal in April.
nortada
Well-Known Member
Looking through this old thread it is a reminder of how much has changed over the past months and how many of us have to amend our plans and thinking accordingly.
Constant change is here to stay and I suspect Portugal and the Med EU States will find away to get around the 90/180 rule. Losing the Swallows could cripple their already weak economies.
geem
Well-Known Member
Yep, we attempted to get residency over the last couple of months. Just about everything in this thread is now out of date. We have decided to no longer progress with residency as it is impossible in the short term. Off to the Caribbean instead.
There is a 50,000 application backlog. SEF are to be replaced but it hasn't happened. To get a fiscal number now you take somebody with residency with you to the tax office and they present you. Not too difficult.
Most will need a D7 visa now. It designed for somebody buying a house not living on a boat. Marina address not good enough. You need a house or lease agreement. You have to open a bank account and deposit minimum of €7000 each in the account and have income per month going in based on minimum wage at least.
You can't progress any of this at moment cos SEF doing nothing whilst they wait to be replaced. It's a complete joke.
