Portrait of the ideal boat.

[Babylon]

What I don't understand is that cars come in a huge variety of sizes, accomodations, purposes, etc. There are a wide range of companies mass-producing these, with many covering the same territory as their competitors across the range, whilst others specialise a bit more.

The problem with the yacht-manufacturing world is that the three largest manufacturers - Beneteau, Jeanneau and Bavaria(*) - ie those who really benefit from large economies of scale and very well established marketing and sales networks - compete endlessless with one another to make and market exactly the same product to the lowest price and spec to grab the biggest share of the new boat-buying public.

The result of this is two-fold:

1/ The buying public have a limited choice of affordable new yachts
2/ The less-generalised manufacturers cannot compete on costs and therefore price; and their products appear, on the surface, to deviate too much from what people think is a normal yacht.

Because the so-called 'normal' yacht is the only thing available on a Med charter or a Solent RYA course, it is the only thing most people have ever experienced.

* Note: Bavaria have at least recently departed from this, by bravely producing a floating greenhouse.

 

[Sybarite]

Have you thought of going into consutlancy seeing as you claim to have the answer to everyones' problems.

Must have skipped this.

I did have my own consultancy firm in fact. There I was paid for my opinion.

 

[Sybarite]

Perhaps it's a cultural thing too, as the French say about British yacht designs: "les anglais, ils se cachent du temps!" Also remember a blog about a British couple sailing the Med in their Colvic Watson and how none of the Germans wanted to be seen dead in what looked like a commercial fishing vessle to them.
Other that that I'd agree with Tranona: in reality there just isn't any market for professional boatbuilders. Most of them have a surprisingly tight budget, just think about how many went bust in the past! Cutting costs means standardisation with a limited number of options. If there was sufficient demand for the boat described by the OP, surely somebody would be offering it.
Isn't it a bit like with equipement in general? Long distance sailors complaining about poor quality vs the overwhelming mass of weekend sailors not willing to spend thousands.

Somebody posted this a few weeks ago. Surely it's not an extreme design and one that would give great protection in northern waters?

http://www.runnallsdesign.com/site/Runnalls_Design/38_Cruising_Yacht_Deck_Drawing.html

I'm not necessarily speaking about this particular boat but a design approach which could run in parallel with some of the more popular models. eg An inspiration for future Oceanis models at Bénéteau to run alongside the First range.

 

[Al Dickson]

• Comfort and ease of use are more important than performance.
• A large engine and adequate diesel tanks are essential.
• A moderate sail area and a rolling foresail lead to efficiency, comfort and security.
• The canvas cockpit canopy is out.
• A hard dog-house is better : better visibility, better protection, total waterproofness and no wear and tear. It should cover the main hatch and the forward third of the cockpit.
• A short roof aids interior clarity and allows a panoramic vision as well as leaving a clear foredeck.

As far as the interior is concerned :

• It should be conceived with a smaller crew in mind.
• Rather than an over-sized saloon and 6 berths which are not required, we would prefer :
o A real fridge
o A real garbage bin
o A real bread bin
o A real oilskin locker
o A sufficient number of drawers
o A boot locker
o A large chart table with a lot of storage space
o Plenty of lockers with separations
o A separate shower in the heads.

Think we can tick most of those ?

 

[Greenheart]

We have 8 berths, sail normally with 2 of us BUT about 10% of the time there is more. So we would exclude our family if we did it different...30% of the time I day sail on my own for which she is far from ideal but that's life...

Must it be thus? Considering what a yacht costs to buy and maintain, I'd be deeply unhappy if my own typical use was so meagrely matched to the layout her designer expected. Would you really buy & run a minibus, to be ready for rare occasions all seats are filled?

Somebody posted this a few weeks ago. Surely it's not an extreme design and one that would give great protection in northern waters?

http://www.runnallsdesign.com/site/Runnalls_Design/38_Cruising_Yacht_Deck_Drawing.html

Looks good to me...like a Dutch design from quite a few years back, if I recall.

Nobody could object there, as the Germans apparently do, to the 'industrial' styling of other sheltered-helm designs.

Aren't German yachtsmen familiar with their great commercial riverboats and the huge respect the world holds their navigators in? It sounds like a touch of laughable nouveau-riche aloofness.

 

[Greenheart]

Not sure the argument for luxury and a covered helm is best won by this design. Bold and competent, but not pretty.

 

[Tranona]

Dan, do your monthly trip to WH Smiths and finger the latest issue of PBO. Drool over the review of the kind of boats you admire and Sybarite has cited as examples. All available for the price of the extras list on a new AWB. Just wonder why they are so cheap if they are so desirable!

 

[Al Dickson]

Not sure the argument for luxury and a covered helm is best won by this design. Bold and competent, but not pretty.

I'm sure I have seen less luxurious covered helming positions - as long as you are handy with a joystick or an autopilot LOL

I didn't know it had to be pretty (won't tell her you said that Dan) but bold is probably quite a good description ..

 

[doug748]

Think we can tick most of those ?

I saw one sailing the other day.

 

[reginaldon]

That's interesting, all boat owners are the same are they then? No need for any small boats, trailer sailors, motorboats, long distance cruisers, racing boats, cats or tris then?

Is this the same concept as the "only the Frogs can efficiently rescue boaters in trouble" thread?

Have you thought of going into consutlancy seeing as you claim to have the answer to everyones' problems.

I see you're still smarting from being soundly beaten on another thread!

 

[Sybarite]

Dan, do your monthly trip to WH Smiths and finger the latest issue of PBO. Drool over the review of the kind of boats you admire and Sybarite has cited as examples. All available for the price of the extras list on a new AWB. Just wonder why they are so cheap if they are so desirable!

Could you tell which boats are being reviewed please? If interesting I will check with my bank to see if I can afford a copy - given the prices over here.

Now there's a thought for another thread: comparing French and UK boating magazines...!!

 

[Sybarite]

I saw one sailing the other day.

Very comfortable they are too. If I could be convinced of their survivabilty in a storm I would be tempted if I had the means. On the other hand here is a roughty toughty version in Strongall - but costs twice as much :

http://www.voilesetvoiliers.com/cha...marthe-46-voilier-exploration-joubert-nivelt/

Joubert himself has the 53' version.

 

[Tranona]

Could you tell which boats are being reviewed please? If interesting I will check with my bank to see if I can afford a copy - given the prices over here.

Now there's a thought for another thread: comparing French and UK boating magazines...!!

Nab 35, Neptunian 33, Seadog 30, Seastream 34 and 43, Endurance, Countess 33 and 35, Voyager 35, Warrior 35, Nicholson38. Few paragraphs on each, nothing new. None of them (except Seastream 43) over £50k, most nearer 30.

If you add Halberdier, Salar, Barbary, Atlantic 40, Moody Eclipses, Westerly Vulcan, Konsort Duo, Hunter 32 (and no doubt more that I have forgotten) there has never been a shortage of such boats in the past, but none ever sold in volume and their builders gave up and made what people seem to want to buy. OK, some of them are enclosed deckhouses, but wheel shelters really belong on bigger boats that can visually and practically carry the height without looking like a 1950s block of flats.

 

[Sybarite]

Nab 35, Neptunian 33, Seadog 30, Seastream 34 and 43, Endurance, Countess 33 and 35, Voyager 35, Warrior 35, Nicholson38. Few paragraphs on each, nothing new. None of them (except Seastream 43) over £50k, most nearer 30.

If you add Halberdier, Salar, Barbary, Atlantic 40, Moody Eclipses, Westerly Vulcan, Konsort Duo, Hunter 32 (and no doubt more that I have forgotten) there has never been a shortage of such boats in the past, but none ever sold in volume and their builders gave up and made what people seem to want to buy. OK, some of them are enclosed deckhouses, but wheel shelters really belong on bigger boats that can visually and practically carry the height without looking like a 1950s block of flats.

Many thanks. Here's another one I like: Boat of the Year a few years ago:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/30332005/Boreal-44-La-haute-mer-en-pantoufles-Loisirs-Nautiques


And not forgetting the Malo 50 (actually 37') :

http://www.maloyachts.se/Default.aspx?tabid=144

 

[2nd_apprentice]

Many thanks. Here's another one I like: Boat of the Year a few years ago:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/30332005/Boreal-44-La-haute-mer-en-pantoufles-Loisirs-Nautiques

It certainly looks a lot nicer than the Malo IMHO.
Then again 376900 Euros wouldn't exactly fit in the "affordable" category for me

 

[Filgood]

What about the boreal 44?

Hard dog house and water proof door + central heating....

Fil

http://lh6.ggpht.com/-0CfUFObmyME/TqckZvL8JEI/AAAAAAAAAa4/oO79wgEaif4/DSC_0410.jpg?imgmax=800 picture

 

[Sybarite]

What about the boreal 44?

Hard dog house and water proof door + central heating....

Fil

http://lh6.ggpht.com/-0CfUFObmyME/TqckZvL8JEI/AAAAAAAAAa4/oO79wgEaif4/DSC_0410.jpg?imgmax=800 picture

Keep up there at the back, see post 54 but, in any case welcome to the forum!

 

[Filgood]

Thanks and sorry about that Sybarite. It will teach me click on the actual links.

It is a shame they don't make a smaller model of that boreal that might be slightly more affordable, but to me she is about the ideal package one can find in sailing yacht.

Anyway, one can only dream....

 

[Bav34]

I
Skiers don't complain about the cold --

Ha ! It was too bloody hot last year

 

[Tranona]

Thanks and sorry about that Sybarite. It will teach me click on the actual links.

It is a shame they don't make a smaller model of that boreal that might be slightly more affordable, but to me she is about the ideal package one can find in sailing yacht.

Anyway, one can only dream....

Have a look at the Ovni range. Very similar and some older ones as small as 34', current smallest 36'. However, they don't have the hard shelter. It is really difficult both functionally and aesthetically to have that feature under about 45ft without it looking like a shed stuck on top. A good collapsible sprayhood is a compromise but is still effective.

Once you get to the larger sizes there are many custom and semi custom designs available that meet the brief - just that like this one they require deep pockets to buy so only only made in very small numbers.