Poor Seamanship

[Trevethan]

Re: Cruisers? Sailors from Hell !

And you'd be a racer then I guess?

Seems as if you have done a good job of proving the point we "undisciplined" and "limited controlled" potterers were trying to make regarding the attitude of those whose sole goal is to cross the line ahead of everyone else.

 

[Roberto]

Re: The fly in the ointment

When rules colregs etc are evidently not enough, I think it s time for common sense to come into play: one would not insist on its "right of way" course if that would cross the bow of a superhighspeedferry, better be sensible for everyone's health isn it

But quite a few racing skippers are often professionals paid to be there, on a boat that is not theirs and usually comfortably insured: what better reason to MisterHydize themselves into hysterically screaming 21st (22?) century self appointed high caliber new captains? Right of way is right of way. Then tear away half the bow of some other boat is not a problem more than choosing the drink at the yacht club once back.

Sure silly to generalize. I have been a racer, won my few things, then got fed up and now am cruising. We are all there to have fun, each one its own way: I try to keep away from racers so they can have their fun (or run their business), but it would be sensible if they do not try to spoil mine just because we have different horizons.

 

[bedouin]

I'm not a fan of "round the cans" type racing - but for all the invective that is poured out against racing sailors, you must admit that collisions between racing boats and cruising boats are very rare - I can't remember hearing of any.

The problem is that if a racing skipper passes two feet behind your boat, he will think that is about 18 inches too far away. This of course is very disconcerting for a cruising sailor, and contrary to the spirit of Colregs.

The best thing for the cruiser to do is to stick to the rules - that is what the racing skippers will be expecting you to do and they will plan accordingly. If you are going to be 'polite' and alter course when you are technically "Stand On" vessel, do so in plenty of time. I think every skippers (cruising or racing) worst nightmare is the boat that does something unexpected.

I'm trying to visualise the situation you describe in your posting, are you sure that there wasn't still time for him to duck under your stern?

 

[blackbird]

Common sense

Good idea. So what would you suggest? That is, what should be done in those situations where racers and cruisers are forced to share the same bit of water?

My own preference would be for some recognisable sign of acknowledgement meaning "I have seen you and am going to give way". Just a wave might do. Because at close quarters, when the two skippers have got a few seconds only to make up their minds what they believe the other is going to do and react accordingly, one man's common sense might just turn out to be another man's madness.

 

[Davo_e]

Re: Common sense

A solution to all of this niff-naff about Cowes week racers not giving way - Avoid the Solent area at all costs! I've never been there in a boat, but after reading this NG for the last year or so, sounds like I made a good decision. Its nowhere near as bad on the East Coast

 

[vyv_cox]

Stick to the rules

Unfortunately, some cruiser sailors have only the faintest grasp of the rules, so racers would be wise not to rely on them doing the predictable thing.

About 10 years ago I was racing in the Dart Nationals in the Solent, along with almost 200 other boats. The whole fleet was close-hauled on starboard heading for the windward mark, when a cruiser with a spinnaker hoisted, also on starboard, approached us heading in almost the opposite direction. The lady crew bellowed "starboard" continuously for several minutes and I don't think she received any abuse or correction. We all moved out of her way, or tacked behind her. To this day she probably thinks she was in the right.

 

[blackbird]

Agreed

The only place I have ever encountered any significant clashes is Burnham, with race fleets tacking in quite a narrow area which is also the only channel for the cruiser traffic. Occasional problems up towards Osea Island on the Blackwater too, where the channel narrows, mainly with dinghy fleets. There is a bad tempered minority that does a lot of yelling, but dinghy sailors are, understandably, less willing to risk a crash with a cruiser when the chips are down.

 

[Guest]

Racers vs. Cruisers

This is all just a matter of good seamanship and courtesy.

A race skipper and crew should be keeping a good lookout for right of way boats, just as a cruising skipper (with or without crew) should do.

The onus always falls upon the no rights boat to keep clear (at least until it's a question of collision avoidance). However, it is common courtesy to give way to racing yachts and not impede them if possible.

A half decent racing skipper will give way to a right of way boat in good time, but he will certainly look to see if the cruiser is going to give way!

Probably the only factor that people haven't mentioned is that, infact, cruisers are probably much more manouvreable than racers in many situations. They are liable to be reefed down snugly in strong winds while race boats are liable to be flying canvas right up to the limit... and may not be able to make an adjustment in their courses as easily as people might expect.

I was racing in Cowes week, and have to say that the worst seamanship I saw all week was from a commercial vessel. A 300ft long coaster, chartered for sightseers, decided to ignore the colregs entirely and put himself on a crossing course with a train of 7 32ft yachts all on a broad spinny run down the same leg. He was not constrained by his draft, and was converging and slightly overtaking the fleet. The last boat of the 7 was able to harden up onto a closer reach when he realised the coaster's (lack of) intentions and get around his stern. The front 4 boats managed to do likewise round the front. I'm sure you can imagine the language from the deck of ourselves and the other boat immediately behind us as we were practically run down just so that his deck full of tourists could get some close up photos.

 

[blackbird]

Dangerous courtesy

What is dangerous here is uncertainty, which is what the colregs are supposed to eliminate. Unfortunately, courtesy takes us back to individual discretion, which is bad news. Anything which forces me to second guess what the stranger on the other boat is going to do is, at close quarters, dangerous.

If courtesy can keep a potential collison risk from arising, that's well and good. But if there IS a collision risk, then we would all be a lot safer if we could be sure the colregs were going to be applied. If cruisers knew that, it would be safer than it is for racers to pass them close. They would feel less uncertainty about whether they should take last minute action to avoid collision. And racers would feel the same benefit. Also, the capacity to bully would be taken out of the racing equation. And some of the heat would be taken out of the whole situation, which wouldn't be a bad thing.

Courtesy is fine, but it's not the final solution.

 

[skiffsailor]

Re: Racers vs. Cruisers

Who was the racer/cruiser who steamed straight through the starboard layline (packed with RS200s) on port, hitting and seriously damaging one dinghy, without stopping to check if the dinghy and it's occupants were OK? This was at the RS Open Meeting at Hayling Island on July 6th(?) - and no, we weren't sailing in the channel but to the NW of the Bar Beacon.

Not sure whether this guy was racing or cruising but he should have been arrested for such dangerous behaviour - breaking racing rules, colregs, you name it.

There are idiots in both camps - in the same way that there are bad Volvo drivers and bad fast-car drivers... )