Poll - Do you turn your VHF off because DSC alerts are too intrusive?

[Anonymous]

Re: Poll - Do you turn your VHF off because DSC alerts are too intrusi

Welcome to the forum /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Agreed. Then there are the heavy breathers at night - they must be ship's officers, I think. It would be good if they could 'burn' the MMSI of the calling station into each transmission, say on Ch70, so that a parallel log of audio and the Ch 70 origin could be used to prove who is abusing the marine bands. Just having the ability would silence 99% of them and could tidy up radio procedure enormously.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for those links. The draft spec is horribly complicated and not much use to ordinary folk. One thing that seems to be missing is the problem with DSC calls to another station.....

You want to call another vessel whose MMSI number you know. You are prompted to choose a channel from a given list, or select your own. You select a channel - say 72 - and as soon as your call goes through both your and the other person's set is switched automatically to Ch 72 regardless of whether the channel is busy. So you start talking right over the top of someone else. Your controls (volume and squelch) might be set to a level where you can't hear the other traffic and in any case there is a sort of psychological urgency (and implied permission) to just go ahead and speak as soon as the call request goes through. I don't have the answer other than to suggest that the sets should not be switched automatically but require manual tuning. That way, maybe people will realise that they have a duty to listen before transmitting.

 

[fireball]

Re: Poll - Do you turn your VHF off because DSC alerts are too intrusi

Actually that isn't a bad idea ... then Solent CG will be able to ping the set that is sat on his transmit button again ...

 

[Gunfleet]

Re: Poll - Do you turn your VHF off because DSC alerts are too intrusi

I don't fit your poll but I'll give you an answer. When DSC first started they used the alarms right left and centre, but now on the East Coast the CG is pretty disciplined about doing it. If the alarm goes off there's always a good reason. Also I have a navico set with a dsc add on unit, so when it was being a PITA I just disconnected the DSC unit!
re the automatic switching, surely the answer is to listen for a second or two before transmitting.

 

[ShipsWoofy]

Re: Poll - Do you turn your VHF off because DSC alerts are too intrusi

[ QUOTE ]
re the automatic switching, surely the answer is to listen for a second or two before transmitting

[/ QUOTE ]

There is another way, some say it was the way the old men in the past would do it, a little preparation, a bit of forethought, I wish I could remember it now.. nope.. it's gone!

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Poll - Do you turn your VHF off because DSC alerts are too intrusi

[ QUOTE ]
re the automatic switching, surely the answer is to listen for a second or two before transmitting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that's what you are supposed to do! I was trying out DSC calls with a friend just after fitting the new radio (he had never tried out his DSC functions either) and we both found a strong psychological pressure to transmit immediately the incoming call arrives. I think it is conditioning from use of telephones from our earliest years. If you try it I think you'll see how hard it is to hold back, check the squelch and volume and then listen for an appropriate time.

It is silly to introduce a system that goes against peoples' lifetime conditioning cos it isn't going to work /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Gunfleet]

Re: Poll - Do you turn your VHF off because DSC alerts are too intrusi

I use it to communicate with a nearby mate. His and the coastguard are the only MMSI numbers in the set! I don't find it hard to wait for a second or two when the set goes automatically to the channel but agree with you that it is counter intuitive. If everyone used it though, it would get rid of a lot of 'Saucepot Saucepot, this is Gravy Boat Gravy Boat, can you hear me over.' On a weekend that can get a bit trying, endlessly repeated.

 

[neale]

Re: Poll - Do you turn your VHF off because DSC alerts are too intrusi

You seem to missing the point of DSC. If you think it is useful that it provides your Lat and Long in the event of your distress. You should put your number in and use it properly. If when you receive a distress you simply turn it off and back on again to stop the annoying "hoots" you could be ignoring someone who needs your help. I guess you had better hope that if you are unfortunate enough to need assistance and use DSC, the nearest boat to you doesn't do the same.

 

[jonathankent]

Well I have to say that I am disappointed that so many people are turning their VHF sets off... I thought that we were all out there and prepared to help each other should the need arise, obviously mistaken.

In the last 2 years of sailing, I have had <6 DSC alerts... maybe the SW has less in the first place, I don't know, but nevertheless it really doesn't pose a problem. There is a bit of traffic on 16 around Falmouth on a Saturday afternoon, but nothing too much that would disturb the afternoon's sail, Plymouth on the other hand is extremely quiet.

I do wonder sometimes whether some people are hyping it all up and complaining about all these alerts when really they are few and far between.

For those of you that do switch your sets off, I hope that if I get into trouble I am not around you, and likewise just think about it if you ever needed assistance... a bit hypocritical maybe.

I urge you to keep your sets switched on.

 

[Anonymous]

[ QUOTE ]
I do wonder sometimes whether some people are hyping it all up and complaining about all these alerts when really they are few and far between.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have sailed two passages, each about 24 hours, since last Saturday and during that time I had dozens of alerts. I had to turn the VHF off whenever I went off watch as my watch crew could not have coped with the DSC and their other duties - and in any case, I wanted a bit of shut-eye!

[ QUOTE ]
For those of you that do switch your sets off, I hope that if I get into trouble I am not around you, and likewise just think about it if you ever needed assistance... a bit hypocritical maybe.

I urge you to keep your sets switched on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you appreciate just how serious the problem can be - you say that you have had fewer than 6 alerts in 2 years so I can understand that but please try to visualise the implications in areas where these alerts go off for every routine weather forecast, which happens in some places. For the first time in my life I turned off the VHF and I felt really uncomfortable about it but there was no practical alternative - the system was unusable and was in itself a danger to me and my vessel.

Please don't urge people to leave their sets on, but instead use your energies to make the point to coast stations at home and abroad not to abuse the alerts. Don't forget that radio waves don't respect borders and in any case, boats sail overseas - that's the whole point of 'em /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[jonathankent]

Well I have not sailed around Spain (assuming that is where you are referring to?) but AFAIK there aren't any DSC alerts in the UK when they transmit the weather forecast for example - didn't even get one when they issued a weather warning in between forecasts... and yes, before anyone asks, the DSC was working /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I agree that we should work together to get these coast stations that do transmit unnecessarily to think about the implications, but I fear that is a very long battle. In the meantime, don't you think we should still have our sets switched on for each other's sake? ... stuff these coast stations, think about each other out there.

BTW, I think that is your responsibility to teach your crew how your VHF works... what would they do if you were lost overboard??

 

[Anonymous]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I think that is your responsibility to teach your crew how your VHF works... what would they do if you were lost overboard??

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone on board is shown how to send a distress alert (this applied to my old semi-DSC set and the new full DSC one). Not everyone is shown how to acknowledge an incoming DSC alert or handle full radio procedure. Do you give everyone a full RT course before letting them stand a watch? I admire your ability to do so, if that is the case /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[jonathankent]

By no means would I expect you to teach them full radio procedure... indeed I don't, and don't have the problem of watches on my little boat - always on hand /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

At least they know what they need to... would it be too much to teach them about the DSC and which button to acknowledge the alarm?

 

[Anonymous]

[ QUOTE ]
... would it be too much to teach them about the DSC and which button to acknowledge the alarm?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you read what I wrote in the first place it might help. I wrote:-

"my watch crew could not have coped with the DSC and their other duties "

Few crew would have coped with the DSC and their other duties, with the DSC going off every couple of hours or more. I had to turn mine off just as nearly 60% of other forumnites here say they do, as well. If you are watch keeping a larger yacht at night in an area of busy shipping, responsible for the sails, heading and track, and keeping a proper visual watch, you cannot be dashing over to the 'chart table' to fiddle with the radio only to find that it is the same blessed weather and nav announcement that you have already heard ten times.

My watch crew could not have coped with the DSC and their other duties, in my opinion. I do not train them in the use of full DSC because in my opinion it is not necessary or worthwhile. If that is needed then I want to be called because I am the skipper and my boat is not a practice workshop unless I am supervising and certainly never, ever, when I am off-watch or sleeping. You need to tell crew the limits of their authority and when to call you. If a proper distress alert is received then it is the skipper's responsibility (legal) to determine whether he can assist and to notify the coastguard. It is not a crew decision.

If I am lost - overboard or incapacitated - then they know what to do, and it does not involve acknowledging incoming 'all ships' alerts.

 

[jonathankent]

Just out of curiosity... how many crew do you have on watch at a time??

Please don't take offence to anything I've posted, I'm more curious as to the thoughts of other skippers... none of us know everything, and discussing things like this could make up more open-minded and may change our habits for the better /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Anonymous]

[ QUOTE ]
Just out of curiosity... how many crew do you have on watch at a time??

[/ QUOTE ]

Much of the time there is only my wife and me on board, sometimes we have a couple of guests, of whom some or all might be sailors or would like to take part so I am always pretty short-handed especially as my wife doesn't 'do' sails and calls me when they need to be trimmed.

My policy is to only have one person technically 'on watch' other than at times of high workload such as entering harbours, channels, poor viz or bad weather. I am often up and about, and looking out when technically 'off watch' and at those times my wife knows that it is her duty to do what needs to be done....I can and do wander off, read a book, doze or whatever takes my fancy. If I had a larger crew I would organise it similarly. As skipper I have 'skipper' duties over, above and as well as watch keeping duties and I never delegate that role - the skipper is skipper 24/24.

 

[jonathankent]

[ QUOTE ]
As skipper I have 'skipper' duties over, above and as well as watch keeping duties and I never delegate that role - the skipper is skipper 24/24.

[/ QUOTE ]
Won't disagree with that... has been the same on all boats I've sailed on and would be on mine too! My skippers have always been on deck, like you, for the busier periods - shipping lanes, etc, etc.

 

[oldharry]

Re: Poll - Do you turn your VHF off because DSC alerts are too intrusi

My last 'new' boat, I fitted a DSC set. What a pain! DSC alerts at odd times of day and night - none of them anything to do with me, or needing my attention, and it once sent out a distress call all by itself. First I knew was Solent CG calling me up to find out what my problem was... "Yacht Oldharry, this is Solent Coastguard, what is your problem?"

"Hallo Solent Coastguard, I'm just sitting here enjoying the sunshine (wasn't this year), why are you asking?"

It took quite a while to convince them I was neither in distress or messing about.

'Nother 'new' boat this season, and currently using just a handheld, and most certainly will not be going DSC when I do get round to fitting a fixed VHF. If the one that came with it doesnt work, theres still plenty of non DSC sets on Ebay. When they get the system 'right' I will reconsider. About the only possible advantage I can see currently is the automatic position fix transmitted with the 'red button' - if you happen to have your GPS switched on, that is.

 

[rwoofer]

I'm about to spec my new boat and since I have never had a DSC set I really don't want to spend lots of money on something that I will turn off (which I know I will do as I turned off my old normal VHF in the Solent just because of the continuous traffic).

Which DSC sets don't sound the alarm if you don't put your MMSI in? I'm tempted by the ICOM m505 with command mic, but will go elsewhere if I have to put up with the alarms.

 

[ShipsWoofy]

[ QUOTE ]
and I felt really uncomfortable about it but there was no practical alternative

[/ QUOTE ]

I will often use my hand held or scanner if I am nosing onto other frequencies while out.