Pocket sailing boat with diesel engine

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mike1956

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Hello,

First post on this forum.

I have joined hoping someone will be able to guide me regarding choosing or even finding my next boat.

I have a fancy for a small sailing boat and have a short list: Corribee 21, Achilles 24, Hurley 22, Hunter 701 etc

I came across these small sail boats in an article in the magazine.

Ideally my new (second hand) boat will be in first class condition, on a trailer and have a diesel inboard.

Many of this size of vessel I have discovered have an outboard motor and I am getting to an age when I would rather turn an ignition key than tug at the starter cord on an outboard motor.

I would appreciate any advice regarding availability of small trailable boats with inboards and welcome any suggestions regarding any other boats of a similar nature to the above.

Thanks

Mike
 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hunter-20...807?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a4bf83b8f

Very few trailables have diesel inboards. This one probably meets all of "Ideally my new (second hand) boat will be in first class condition, on a trailer and have a diesel inboard." This is one of the few bilge keel modern uk built boats.

Alternatively you could consider an electric start kit. These were only typically available for larger horse power obs.


Steve
 
Many of the inboard diesels fitted to Corribees were the old BMW D7, which is getting on in years, has an unreliable charging system, and parts are both rare and expensive. If you're a proficient DIYer this won't necessarily be a problem, but it's worth bearing in mind.

They're about to fit a D7 to the PBO boat - it was given free by a forumite, I believe, so I won't say it was too expensive at the price!

Where are you, BTW?
 
mike1956 said:
Hello,

Ideally my new (second hand) boat will be in first class condition, on a trailer and have a diesel inboard.

I would appreciate any advice regarding availability of small trailable boats with inboards and welcome any suggestions regarding any other boats of a similar nature to the above.


You need to be aware that if you trailer the boat home each time then you should be prepared to spend 2 hours setting it up before launch and the same after you pull it out. And 20 foot boats are not that easy to launch/recover. Much better to leave it near the water with the mast up.

My 9.8 hp Tohatsu comes with an electric start option and this would be the size of outboard that you would need.

Then again, you may know this already!

Good luck.
Click to expand...
 
You certainly don't need a 9.8 on a twenty two footer but it'll do no harm

Don't be put off by hand starting. Modern outboards in good order start first (or occasionally if it's cold or after a layoff second) pull with very little effort

The advantages at that size of boat are legion which is why you rarely see small boats with inboard engines these days
 
My Anderson 22 has a BMW D7. The batteries are kept up more by the solar panel than the alternator. At 68kg it's as light as you will get for a diesel inboard and substantially heavier than the 5hp outboard in a well that they were designed for. I sail single handed though which saves that weight in lardy crew.
 
Mike
I would suggest that your best bet is to find someone with a boat of the type you are interested in an ask to go sailing with him. Any real enthusiast would be happy to oblige, and you might get some offers if you ask nicely on this very forum.
Actually going sailing is worth any amount of looking at magazine articles etc. and you will be able to find out what sort of boat you are most likely to be happy with.

Just one other comment: If you are hoping that an inboard engine will solve all your problems and be totally trouble free, you may be in for one horrible shock. Also, there are reasons why most small boats, especially trailable ones, tend to have outboards, even apart from the several k£ required to fit an inboard (installation, P brackets, fuel tanks, seacocks (!), propellers etc etc., not just the cost of the engine).
 
Mike1956,

I think you will find the reason diesels are so rare at this size boat is mainly the weight, but also cost and complexity.

I know several Anderson 22's with diesels, this was a leter option on a boat originally designed to have an outboard in a well.

Of the A22's with diesels I know one which is on it's 4th engine, due to corrosion etc, rather expensive and tons of hassle !
I am normally against it for performance reasons, but I really do think your best bet is a design with an outboard well, and leave the engine in.

Just make sure the sacrificial anode on the engine is new at the start of the season; a mdern 4 stroke should be easy to start, quiet and economical; it should have a charging coil to top up the battery, and a remote fuel tank.

You may need help moving the engine at the beginning and end of season, but willing assixtance should be easily found at a club or yard.

In the event of anything wrapped around the propeller you still have the facility to undo the engine clamps and lift it, even slightly and possible using the boom as a crane; fouled props are one of the major worries with inboard engines, as is blocked cooling inlets; an outboard is all self contained and one can glance at the telltale cooling water outlet to see the flow is OK, putting one's hand under now and again as a temperature guage ( it should just be luke warm ).

If anything goes wrong with an inboard it's very often difficult to get at and I learned that engine manufacturers have a distinct sense of humour when it comes to prices.

Just because a boat like say a Shrimper is ( stupidly in my view for such a limited inshore boat ) expensive, doesn't mean the engine is somehow immune to corrosion, and after a certain age - say 15 years as a very rough guide - most diesel engines are getting to the stage where replacement is on the cards.

In the event of engine problems, being able to simply unclamp and take the entire engine to a workshop or home is a huge boon; take it from someone who has had a diesel inboard, had the worries, hassle and the toe-curling costs of spares, and went straight back to the boat with well and outboard !

Above about 25' I'd say yes a diesel makes sense, but not with boats any smaller.
 
Also worth bearing in mind the legalities of towing something as heavy as a twenty something foot boat with an inboard diesel.The all up weight of boat and trailer will require something bigger than a car to tow it.
 
I ran a flotilla of Sonatas for a few years. They are 23 ft, 1.1 tonnes and have outboards. Firstly the practicalities of trailer-sailing: They were quite tricky to get on and off the trailer - I normally used a crane. Floating on and off is a bit of a problem as you need to get the trailer a long way into the water which meant wheel bearings and brakes (essential with that weight of boat) got immersed in salt water. In fact one had to go so far down the ramp that the rear suspension of the towing vehicle was immersed too. You need to wait an hour before launching as hot bearings immersed in cold water will suck water into the bearings.

The Sonatas are pretty light so a normal car can tow them; my Tiguan for example has a limit of 2000 kg. A heavier boat/trailer will need the likes of a Land Rover for their 3.5 tonne towing capacity. Towing a long way at 55 mph is tedious but surprisingly relaxing. I wouldn't go any faster with that much weight on the back. Don't forget that you need to allow another 30% on top of the boat's weight for a suitable trailer.

Transom mounted outboards are a PITA but when mounted in a well they are less of a pain. The Hunter Duette is a twin-keel version of the Sonata with a well and would be near the top of my list. As for power, mine had 5hp Mariners which worked just fine. When one of them got nicked I replaced it with a 4hp Yanmar and didn't notice any difference. No doubt they wouldn't be as good heading into a chop but boats of that size are so easy to sail that one would normally reserve the motor for calms and berthing.

Inboards for that size of boat are going to be single-cylinder so loads of vibration and as others have said, likely to be pretty rusty after a few years.

Having said all that, I had an outboard on my 39 ft tri and hated it. I insisted on twin inboards for my current cat and have never regretted the choice. I quite fancy a Shrimper when I stop offshore sailing and would go for the inboard version.
 
You might look at Swallow Boats - they do a 26 with a diesel option or a 23 with the outboard/well option. Perhaps more relevantly, they have a lifting keel, and water ballast tanks which are emptied for towing on a break back trailer which can launch in a puddle. The carbon mast makes for easier rigging. Never sailed on one or seen one in the flesh but the specs look good. If I was in the market for a trailerable boat, this is what I'd be looking at. Probably expensive though.......
 
Snow Leopard,

I completely agree re trailer sailing, it's a mugs game which only appeals to people who haven't tried anything similar...

Identify a suitable sliway within sensible driving range - surprisingly rare.

Trail boat there to find the rest of the locality has had the same idea.

Try to find somewhere suitable to park and let the trailer bearings cool.

Using machine gun, finally get boat into water, trying not to launch car as well.

Find somewhere safe to leave boat while parking car & trailer.

Try to find somewhere secure to leave car & trailer.

Walk back to boat.

Raise mast.

Set up standing & running rigging.

Go for a sail.

Return 5 minutes later to catch the tide.

Berth boat.

De-rig.

Lower mast.

Walk to car & trailer, if still there, drive to slip and wait for a slot.

Put boat on trailer & recover up slip.

Set up secure for towing.

Drive home.

Have heart attack.

----

In reality, by far the best option is a mooring, or a marina berth if within budget.

My boat is 22' with a lift keel and engine in a well; I always say she is ' trailable ', ie one could take her home for the winter* or relocate somewhere for a summer holiday somewhere different, but no way is she a trailer sailer, I'm not sure any boat really is.

* Snag with taking a lift keeler home for the winter or otherwise keeping her on a trailer is it means one cannot access the keel plate to maintain it, which is essential on all lift keelers.

I and many other Anderson owners keep my boat on high trestles which she's craned onto every autumn and back into the water to her mooring every spring.
 
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Thanks all,

I am sorry I probably did not make my situation completely clear in my original post.

I do have a mooring and do not require a boat as a trailer sailor. However I do have a large garden/paddock so if the boat happens to have its own trailer I can tow it home to attend to any maintenence.

I do happen to drive a Land Rover Defender 110 so am OK for towing up to 3.5 T with over run brakes.

The reason I favour diesel I suppose is because I have owned & skippered diesel engined fishing & charter boats for the last 30 years. Having retired and sold my fishing boat I got restless one day & bought a Drascombe Lugger (did not have a mooring at that time) which I have enjoyed sailing & fishing from for the last 5 years. I will continue to enjoy her but am thinking of the day I just get sick of or are unable to pull the starter cord. I sail 52 weeks a year and my outboard does take a lot more starting in the winter particularly when your mooring lines are like concrete reenforcing bar with the frost. Additionally I have a petrol chain saw, petrol pressure washer & petrol lawn mower as well as my Yamaha 5hp outboard. There is a limit to how much my old back will take!

Thank you for your suggestions regarding other suitable vessels. All being considered.

Mike
 
Very useful to be able to trail home. Yard storage is a great expense and well worth avoiding.

A lot of Elizabethan 23s came with inboard petrol engines, which by now may well have small diesels.
 
It's no good trailing a lift keel boat home if she's going to sit on a trailer with the keel plate inaccessible to maintain !

The Anderson 22 is rare if not unique in having new keels available off the shelf, and when people hesitate over the cost I say my acid test is ' imagine yourself with family aboard on a dark night clawing off a lee shore in a Force 6, is that the time to start wondering about the keel ?!

I don't know whereabouts you are based Mike, but I get a very nice sheltered half tide mooring on soft mud in Chichester Harbour with a locked tender pen, good clubhouse & car park, hoist in & out, winter ashore, membership etc for £406 PA all in.

So with the club hoist I can have my boat placed on high trestles each winter so as to lower the keel for maintainence; a lot of other A22's use these trestles and a few other lift keelers have taken the simple design ( my lifelong engineer father came up with it ) as I supply plans to A22 owners and others if they ask nicely.

It's not that there's anything wrong with the A22 keel, far from it - it's much more substantial than any other on a similar sized boat I can think of offhand, but one has to be realistic - most boats of this type, so on Mike's list, are from the 1970's and galvanised steel doesn't last forever.

My club and mooring is in a nice spot where as well as the friendly clubhouse there are 2 good old pubs serving food, a nature reserve, long walks along the shore and an all night petrol station just up the road; I reckon that pretty good value, which is why this will be my 37th season there...I think there are spare moorings but not sure.
 
And here she is:

View attachment 49762

Very pretty, but petite inside. I recall the Mk2 has more headroom. See the opening page of the YW website: Novel Emergency Boarding Ladder; this chap has been round Britain and all over the place.
 
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