Peer-To-Peer Renting

[TheShawnBarron]

Hello, I am a software engineer and have noticed among several groups of people close to me there seems to be a problem finding a reliable service for peer-to-peer boat renting. They have mentioned either unreliable service or lack of service at all. I myself don't have very much experience in this field, but from those who I have talked there seems to be a lack of a service that provides a fast an easy way to find a boat near you to rent or to post your own boat for rent. As a software engineer this seems like exactly the problem I can solve, however due to my lack of understanding in this field specifically, I decided to turn to some forums and talk to those who would have more knowledge. With all that being said, I open the floor up to you all and ask what features you would look for in a peer-to-peer boat renting service, and in your opinion what is holding back services (i.e. legal or insurance issues, ect.) that already to provide this ability?

Looking forward to hearing from you all!

 

[duncan99210]

Biggest obstacle is that renting your boat makes it a commercial transaction which requires the boat in question to be coded for charter. You can loan your boat to a friend and expect him to pay for incidental expenses (fuel, berthing fees etc) but asking for or accepting money for anything else will move you into the charter area. So your concept won’t really work in the UK.

 

[TernVI]

Charterers and owners are not really peers are they?

Because there is a massive overhead in getting a boat coded and keeping it that way, it's only worth it if it's rented many weeks a year.
In which case you're into the Sunsail model of owning a boat which they manage and you get to use for 'n' weeks.
This works for many people.

 

[Deleted member 478]

Do you mean something like "tinder/swipe left or right" for boats, but not actually paying for the pleasure?

 

[Bouba]

The first question many ask when looking to buy a boat is, can I rent it out? Because boats are such a huge investment, everyone thinks that they will make the boat pay for itself. But when confronted by the issues involved, most drop the idea.
Perhaps a boat swap scheme is another approach, holidaying boater uses your boat, in return you take someone else’s, who in turn uses the first persons boat....

 

[Lucy52]

Do you mean that I let some Tom Dick or Harriot who I have never met and have no idea of their competence, other than what they make claim to, take my pride and joy out for a jolly? Nah, I don't think that will work, not for me anyway. Going to Sunsail it is a much better idea.

 

[Bouba]

I’m very particular about what gets flushed down my boat toilet

 

[Daydream believer]

Worse still; Imagine they wanted to bring a dog aboard

 

[Bouba]

Worse still; Imagine they wanted to bring a dog aboard

The dog hair does shock our visitors

 

[laika]

Charterers and owners are not really peers are they?

Perhaps the OP should be asking the RYS?

 

[RupertW]

Hello, I am a software engineer and have noticed among several groups of people close to me there seems to be a problem finding a reliable service for peer-to-peer boat renting. They have mentioned either unreliable service or lack of service at all. I myself don't have very much experience in this field, but from those who I have talked there seems to be a lack of a service that provides a fast an easy way to find a boat near you to rent or to post your own boat for rent. As a software engineer this seems like exactly the problem I can solve, however due to my lack of understanding in this field specifically, I decided to turn to some forums and talk to those who would have more knowledge. With all that being said, I open the floor up to you all and ask what features you would look for in a peer-to-peer boat renting service, and in your opinion what is holding back services (i.e. legal or insurance issues, ect.) that already to provide this ability?

Looking forward to hearing from you all!

Swap the idea around for guardianage and you might be onto a winner, albeit a low cost one. There are a number of people who live a long way from their boats but would love a local boat owner to do anything from keep a basic eye on it to keeping it immaculate inside and out. And I suspect many boat owners who live locally who wouldn’t mind fussing about with somebody else’s boat for a tenner a week. There is rarely enough business in a single marina for the professional superyacht style valet team.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Others have said it, but the bottom line is that you are either chartering a boat, or you are lending it. IN the former case, the boat MIUST be brought up to and maintained at a particular (high) standard, with much mandatory equipment aboard. This is not cheap! Further, there are insurance issues as well - commercial insurance is likely to be a lot more expensive than non-commercial. If you are lending, then there must be no hint of a fee being paid for use of the boat. Replacing consumables and making good wear and tear is about all you can ask for. I'd NEVER lend my boat to someone I hadn't at least met beforehand, or who had been vouched for by a very good friend. I have lent my boat to others in the past; it has worked out well, but I knew the people, or someone I knew very well (my brother!) knew them well.

The bottom line is that marine chartering is highly regulated, much more so than (say) the AirBnB type of thing.

 

[[3889]]

I have no wish to rent/ share my boat but have wondered if the coding conundrum could be bypassed by selling a small share of the boat to the 'charterer' for the loan period. Taking a 100k AWB as an example, 1/64th = £1560, in the ball park for a week's charter. Twiddling the numbers would it possible to sell a share and re-buy it at the end of the charter period at an agreed, discounted rate? There would be little incentive for the 'charterer' to retain a small share in a depreciating asset over which they had no say. Insurance might be another matter but I have to say I find the coding restrictions overly restrictive.
I emailed the MCA a few years back to confirm whether non-paying crew, recruited from Crewseekers etc. could legally sail on a non-coded boat as they are not 'family or friends' and the reply, rich in ambiguity, was essentially 'No'.

 

[Bouba]

I have no wish to rent/ share my boat but have wondered if the coding conundrum could be bypassed by selling a small share of the boat to the 'charterer' for the loan period. Taking a 100k AWB as an example, 1/64th = £1560, in the ball park for a week's charter. Twiddling the numbers would it possible to sell a share and re-buy it at the end of the charter period at an agreed, discounted rate? There would be little incentive for the 'charterer' to retain a small share in a depreciating asset over which they had no say. Insurance might be another matter but I have to say I find the coding restrictions overly restrictive.
I emailed the MCA a few years back to confirm whether non-paying crew, recruited from Crewseekers etc. could legally sail on a non-coded boat as they are not 'family or friends' and the reply, rich in ambiguity, was essentially 'No'.

That’s a bit like saying, I’m going to sell you my house for just below the stamp duty threshold and then I’m going to bet you £300,000 that you can’t jump over the house in a single bound. Mr Taxman won’t be impressed if he catches whiff of it

 

[prv]

That’s a bit like saying, I’m going to sell you my house for just below the stamp duty threshold and then I’m going to bet you £300,000 that you can’t jump over the house in a single bound. Mr Taxman won’t be impressed if he catches whiff of it

Indeed. It reminds me of Uber’s claim that they weren’t a taxi service, but merely a communications app that allowed members of the public to get in touch with individual one-man taxi businesses whose tax and regulatory affairs weren’t Uber’s business. Apparently this worked in some places in the US, but the UK courts applied the “duck test” and said “doesn’t matter how you’ve structured your contracts, it’s perfectly clear that you’re running a taxi business”.

Pete

 

[LadyInBed]

An AirBaB - Borrow a Boat ?

 

[Daydream believer]

I have no wish to rent/ share my boat but have wondered if the coding conundrum could be bypassed by selling a small share of the boat to the 'charterer' for the loan period. Taking a 100k AWB as an example, 1/64th = £1560, in the ball park for a week's charter. Twiddling the numbers would it possible to sell a share and re-buy it at the end of the charter period at an agreed, discounted rate?

What if they decided not to sell the share back at the end but to keep it?

 

[RupertW]

What if they decided not to sell the share back at the end but to keep it?

This sort of thing has been done for many years to avoid VAT on temporary workers. My experience is with locum doctors and nurses. Even if they are hired for just one shift they are brought on as full employees for 8 hours and their employment terminated at the end. All paperwork (about 120 pages of contracts, staff handbook, pension rights etc.) are provided to them but the advent of email means that costs nothing. HMRC have been remarkably relaxed after a few early challenges over a decade ago, so tax avoidance isn’t an issue for them, and nor are early mandatory termination clauses to a contract, e.g. selling the right to the boat share for a week, with a maintenance fee of the same again every week they wish to retain it.

But you would have to have deep pockets (like the Big 4 accountancy firms did on the employee scheme) to beat off any HMRC challenge which they wouldn’t pursue if it would cost them to fight it.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I emailed the MCA a few years back to confirm whether non-paying crew, recruited from Crewseekers etc. could legally sail on a non-coded boat as they are not 'family or friends' and the reply, rich in ambiguity, was essentially 'No'.

When that chap in Cumbria (Whitehaven?) was done for uncoded chartering, I recall the MCA saying that we could take anybody with us as crew, just not as paying guests. So pay your Crewseeker friends 50p and you should be fine.

 

[sails_02]

Take a look at clickandboat, mostly in the EU, a few boats available from exactly what you describe, Airbnb for boats. Pretty clearly not coded charter boats by the looks of the low end. I've used clickandboat and it worked well, much more flexible and variety than a charter, but some variability in quality.

clickandboat covers the UK but there aren't any listings that I can find, and there are some listings, a few indicated as MCA coded, a few not so. I wouldn't bother building anything until you figure out what clickandboat isn't offering you.

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