Paxos - Washed up yachts??

[Cariadco]

What happened recently (last week??) in Paxos??
I've seen lots of photos, posted on FB, showing afew yacht's washed up on a beach and on the southern breakwater in Gaios.

The photos are on this FB Page:

https://www.facebook.com/dimitris.kintzios?fref=photo

and on this one:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/129381803895499/photos/

 

[alexsailor]

Proabably bad weather. Last week there were some thunderstorms.
I had one in Petriti/Corfu and next day in Garitsas bay Corfu. Several sy had problems with dragging...
Where are the photos?

 

[SamanthaTabs]

We had an interesting situation in Petriti two days ago, charter boat dragged quickly and got their rudder stuck on our bridle so laying alongside bashing our bow. That took some sorting out....

 

[alexsailor]

Uff...

I always anchor south of that rocks with big greek flag. And almost always alone...

 

[duncan99210]

Circe, one of the boats shown in the photos on the rocks in Gaios, has only just finished an extended refit in Gouvia. We've watched the slow progress of a meticulous refit and it's a real shame to see her on the rocks. I do hope that she's been re floated and can be repaired.

 

[macd]

Sad images.
As said, a few days of thunderstorms, typically throwing in brisk winds from the east quadrant (at least where I was, on Corfu). On the first day, heading north for Corfu town, we diverted to Paganias on the mainland, which is bullet-proof from any direction, rather than risk anchoring off a lee shore.
Grib files gave no hint of this wind direction, although they did forecast rain, which usually means thunderstorms at this time of year, which in turn means "be prepared for winds from anywhere".
Meteo Greece and the Athens University weather site had a better handle on events. There's a lesson there...it's too damned easy to download a grib and think you have the picture. Been there, got the wet T-shirt :ambivalence:

 

[alexsailor]

I had a big problem in Garitsas bay when two ITALIANS sy dregged. Then they were motoring for an hour and trying to drop anchor at the SAME place as before. But the bay is HUGE and ther was enough room all around (to the south of the bay or a little bit outside).
In the morning when I left they got a nice finger from me... But they do not get it...

 

[sailaboutvic]

Very sad In deed , just hope every one was safe , boat can be replace

 

[Metabarca]

I had a big problem in Garitsas bay when two ITALIANS sy dregged. Then they were motoring for an hour and trying to drop anchor at the SAME place as before. But the bay is HUGE and ther was enough room all around (to the south of the bay or a little bit outside).
In the morning when I left they got a nice finger from me... But they do not get it...

Ah, if only they had been English! Then they would have re-acnhored perfectly and in orderly manner and everyone could have had a nice cup of tea.
From what I've been reading in this forum recently, it is not just diplomacy that is an alternative form of war (by words) but so is sailing (by anchor). Lighten up! If you're like this on your boats, God help us if we ever meet you on a congested road!
We used to have regular posts from Croatians and Italians but they seem to have buzzed off, because what we are seeing is no longer banter but xenophobia (that's from the Greek; like many great British things, the English language is all the richer for its imports!).

 

[rigman]

Ah, if only they had been English! Then they would have re-acnhored perfectly and in orderly manner and everyone could have had a nice cup of tea.
From what I've been reading in this forum recently, it is not just diplomacy that is an alternative form of war (by words) but so is sailing (by anchor). Lighten up! If you're like this on your boats, God help us if we ever meet you on a congested road!
We used to have regular posts from Croatians and Italians but they seem to have buzzed off, because what we are seeing is no longer banter but xenophobia (that's from the Greek; like many great British things, the English language is all the richer for its imports!).

Well said sir.

 

[jaba]

Ah, if only they had been English! Then they would have re-acnhored perfectly and in orderly manner and everyone could have had a nice cup of tea.
From what I've been reading in this forum recently, it is not just diplomacy that is an alternative form of war (by words) but so is sailing (by anchor). Lighten up! If you're like this on your boats, God help us if we ever meet you on a congested road!
We used to have regular posts from Croatians and Italians but they seem to have buzzed off, because what we are seeing is no longer banter but xenophobia (that's from the Greek; like many great British things, the English language is all the richer for its imports!).

+ 1, Metabarca

 

[alexsailor]

Look, I am not British. I am from Slovenia.
I keep my boat in Croatia and since Croatia is crazy expesnsive I sail every year to Greece and back. Hopefully I'll leave my boat next year in Greece.

But I always had drama with Italian flaged boats. Maybe that is just so beacuse of an endless mass of Italian vessles (specialy in August).
Proabably I could write the same about British flaged yachts but there are not so many and if they are, they do not drop anchor in front of me like I am a magnet for other boats.
I see no reason that when anchored, an Italian yacht drops anchor right in the same spot as I did (and there is the whole bay empty and secure for anchoring).
But that is not all. Than another yacht arrives. They drop the anchor almost at the same place. Then kids start to crawl out and they are fu.... loud...
I am not bothering anybody, so why do they do that?

Since you started writing about English (and you missed...) I'll continue: there are several times that I ask myself why English people on this forum are so arrogant?
As far as I have seen in all those years of sailing in Mediterranean, English do not sail that much; they are stucked somewhere in an all-around protected bay or in a stinky "marina".

But those are all prejudices and I do not mind an Italian, British or whatever flag as long as they respect the sea and others that are around.
Unfortunatly I have a lot of bad experiences with Italian boats (like this year when just before the storm on Erikoussa an Italian sy tried to anchor between the other boats and of course theri anchor dragged and they hit my boat- minor damage).

 

[jaba]

I had some bad experiences with Slovenian boats (actually, I saved one which was dragging). But also decent ones... I had good and bad experiences with Italian boaters. And French, and British... and so on.
Alexsailor, your generalization is unpleasant.

 

[alexsailor]

I had some bad experiences with Slovenian boats (actually, I saved one which was dragging). But also decent ones... I had good and bad experiences with Italian boaters. And French, and British... and so on.
Alexsailor, your generalization is unpleasant.

jaba, I understand that accidents do happen but they will happen if you drop only a few meters of chain in front of me...

My generalization is unpleasant yes but that is my experience...

Question:
1.) why do people (Italians mostly) anchor right next to you in an empty bay? And it is always like that. Always...

 

[RichardS]

jaba, I understand that accidents do happen but they will happen if you drop only a few meters of chain in front of me...

My generalization is unpleasant yes but that is my experience...

Question:
1.) why do people (Italians mostly) anchor right next to you in an empty bay? And it is always like that. Always...

Alex himself makes the point in post #12 that there are many more yachts flying the Italian ensign than flying the British ensign, certainly in Croatia, that we always look closely at any British yacht that anchors in the same bay as us as they are a bit of a novelty. Probability suggests that if someone anchors very close to you in an empty bay, the chances are that the ensign flying will be Italian rather than British.

I'm not justifying the denigration of any particular nationality as I have had very many good and very few bad experiences with all nationalities and I know that I've given some people a story to tell about red ensign boats!

Richard

 

[jaba]

jaba, I understand that accidents do happen but they will happen if you drop only a few meters of chain in front of me...

My generalization is unpleasant yes but that is my experience...

Question:
1.) why do people (Italians mostly) anchor right next to you in an empty bay? And it is always like that. Always...

Listen, a few days ago I was in LInosa Island (no harbour there). I was the only boat there, anchored in what was considered a suitable bay. Rocna anchor, 10 mts of depth, sand, snubber with 60 mt of chain out,.
Then this thing arrived, believe me, quite unpredicted: http://www.meteoweb.eu/2015/08/alle...-tunisia-sta-gia-colpendo-linosa-live/483209/
Never seen anything like that (winds from 0 to 50 kts in a couple of minutes and lasting for a good hour). I was alone aboard, anchored, motoring, 20-30 mts from the rocks on a lee shore. Visibility, perhaps 50 mt .
At this point another boat (italian like me) came in from the outside, and entered the totally open bay (breaking waves and all) trying to anchor near me. His plan was unfeasable; he should have remained well outside & motored slowly against the storm. Instead, he broke his windlass, wandered around the bay with an hanging chain and anchor, hit me on the pulpit with his bow. At the end we saved both boats. I would have left unscathed but for his conduct...
That's only to say that if you sail (or anchor)... sometimes sh** happens
And if you sail in August you"ll find lots of us Italians around. Some will be good, some bad.
But the same applies to other nationalities.
Best
j
PS: the storm which hit me in Sicily might be the same which hit the Ionian (and Paxos, see pictures) a couple of days later.

 

[alexsailor]

so you see @jaba... you confirmed what I have written.
my question is why? Maybe it is because they see us (you, me...) on the hook and they think there is the only safe (good holding) place in the bay?
I would never do that. Not even in the calm!
The privilege of sailing is to drop an anchor in a bay and have some privacy. Ok, I can not expect that in August but if there is enough space I always go away from other boats.

My experience in Erikoussa was that in 6m deep, I had 28m out because there was a forecast of bad weather from the East (storms on mainland. But of course during the day a rather weak NW blew and I said very polite to the arriving IT flagged SY that I have almost 30m of chain in the water. He did not mind and anchored near me. I took my mask and looked: there was maybe 10m of chain...
I would drop even more but I knew it is busy time of the year so when swinnging around, 40 or 50 m would be too much.

So like in your story, there was some damage done by careless skipper. Just because he can not take in consideration other boats. That is egoism.
I also helped them in the strom in the night. At least a "thank you" in the morning was something I would expect.
And that is not the only stroy.

I have a lot of friends from Italy (most of them berth in Grado or Monfalcone) and they do admit the problem that we are writing about.

 

[Metabarca]

Dragi alexsailor,
if you're sailing in the Adriatic in August, half of the boats are going to be Italian, so the quota of bad experiences by Italians is going to be higher. And of course, it's the bad experiences you remember. Of course, any Italian boat from anywhere west of Grado is to be avoided, especially if from the Veneto! Or a mob. Or flying a Venetian flag. Or....
...let's have a Lasko pivo...

 

[alexsailor]

Dragi alexsailor,
if you're sailing in the Adriatic in August, half of the boats are going to be Italian, so the quota of bad experiences by Italians is going to be higher. And of course, it's the bad experiences you remember. Of course, any Italian boat from anywhere west of Grado is to be avoided, especially if from the Veneto! Or a mob. Or flying a Venetian flag. Or....
...let's have a Lasko pivo...

When you see a Slovenian flag, drop by for a beer (Lasko). Anytime.

I agree and that is what I have written: August is full of Italians so statistically there is more likely to be involved in a "situation" with an Italian flagged boat.

It is hard to be objective when speaking about nationalities on boats but I just want one answer: why do they mostly all anchor around (or very very close) another anchored boat in the bay (and I guess more or less a lot of members here would agree with this assumption or fact as far as it concerns me)?
As written by @jaba and me, they put us (and our boats) in danger.

What is strange to me is, that almost all of this sailing yachts are privately owned. So I would expect an extra precaution.
I "escaped" from Croatia not just because of crazy prices and nationalism (that is growing since they have a new president) but also because Croatia is a Disneyland for charter boats and Sailing week. They devastated the last bit of romantic in the bays, being drunk all the time, throwing garbage in the sea and they do not give a f.... for others.
Nationalities (since this is the issue, I guess): Polish, Czech...

Next time I'll mount GoPro camera on my roll-bar and I will publish it on youtube; filming the registration of the boat as well as the captain.

My point here is not to start a WW3 but I am convinced that we, who own, polish and worship our boats, should do more to educate other irresponsible sailors. How can we do it? First we have to admit our own mistakes and ways of behavior, than we can continue by telling (or suggesting) other skippers how to do it.

 

[Metabarca]

"why do they mostly all anchor around (or very very close) another anchored boat in the bay?"
Because Slovene beer is better than Italian...!
I agree about Croatian nationalism, though. It's tiresome to see information boards giving a potted history going from the Greeks and Romans to modern-day Croatia, missing out 1500 years of Venice, Austria-Hungary (and Britain too in the case of Vis). The problem is that the Istrians and Dalmatians are being swamped by the inlanders.
Where do you keep your boat? Portoroz?
You're right to take photographic evidence of dumping rubbish; hand it to the charter companies and the police; such behaviour is inexcusable.