Patio Magic

[emkay]

Just to confirm folks - can patio magic be used safely on the decks of a GRP boat?
I'm lucky enough to have algae and mold on the deck, and also 1/2 a container of patio magic, will bringing the two together cause problems?

Obvs this would be done with the boat on the hard - the marina is polluted enough already.

 

[Vara]

Has anyone tried patio magic on mildewed sails, ie does it damage sail cloth?

yes, and as far as I can tell it doesn't.

 

[nigelmercier]

After reading about Patio Magic in this forum, I bought some for my patio. It was rubbish.

 

[Colvic Watson]

After reading about Patio Magic in this forum, I bought some for my patio. It was rubbish.

You need deck magic, manufactured for boats but rubbish on them; cleans up my patio a treat.

 

[pvb]

Just to confirm folks - can patio magic be used safely on the decks of a GRP boat?

Yes.

 

[johnwest]

Patio Magic works a teat on my teak deck

j

 

[FWB]

After reading about Patio Magic in this forum, I bought some for my patio. It was rubbish.

You must have bought the Navionics version of Patio Magic. The real stuff works perfectly both on patios and boats.

 

[Whitty]

+1 Patio Magic its great on anything

 

[pvb]

+1 Patio Magic its great on anything

It's not very good on toast.

 

[Mistroma]

Benzalkonium chloride, aka Patio Magic, is reportedly fantastic at keeping black water pipes and tanks clear of calcium deposits. Unfortunately we haven't found it in Greece to be able to try it out.

Lots of things you can use to remove calcium buildup in tanks and pipes, hydrochloric acid, sulfamic acid, acetic acid, EDTA etc.

However, I've never heard of benzalkonium chloride for this purpose and doubt it would do much. It isn't acidic nor a chelating agent and I doubt it would do much to dissolve calcium. Where did you hear that it was good for calcium removal? I would not reccomend using Patio Magic in a holding tank as it is VERY bad for aquatic organisms. I do brush it sparingly on teak as most of it binds pretty well with the teak and there's virtually no run-off by time boat is back in the water. I wouldn't ever stick it into a holding tank.

I noticed that some posts mentioned that Patio Magic didn't clean their decks. It only kills and inhibits mould/algae and isn't a cleaner, so I wouldn't expect it to clean a dirty deck. Perhaps I'm missing the point and they actually meant that it didn't kill algae on teak or GRP.

I've never tried Patio Magic on a Patio but not too surprised when Nigel said it didn't work. My patio is pretty grubby and I'd pressure wash to clean it rather than trying Patio Magic. It is brilliant at keeping teak free of any greenish growth for 1-2 years.

 

[pvb]

Lots of things you can use to remove calcium buildup in tanks and pipes, hydrochloric acid, sulfamic acid, acetic acid, EDTA etc.

However, I've never heard of benzalkonium chloride for this purpose and doubt it would do much. It isn't acidic nor a chelating agent and I doubt it would do much to dissolve calcium. Where did you hear that it was good for calcium removal?

Agreed. I can't see any way in which it might keep calcium deposits away - the best solution is adequate flushing of the pipes.

 

[Vara]

Yep it would seem that patio magic is achieving the status of Oxalic acid as the universal panacea for boat ills, like oxalic it aint!

Patio magic is very good at killing green mould on all manner of materials, and it has some residual effect in preventing regrowth, it has very limited cleaning power otherwise.

The reference to clearing waste pipes must refer to brick cleaning fluids which can be used to clean patios and clear calcium deposits. But the action is acidic which Patio Magic aint.

Its very good stuff within its limits, easily obtained and not over expensive...but it does have its limits!

Thinking about it do you think it would clear Dylan's crotch rot?

 

[FWB]

I've never tried Patio Magic on a Patio but not too surprised when Nigel said it didn't work. My patio is pretty grubby and I'd pressure wash to clean it rather than trying Patio Magic. It is brilliant at keeping teak free of any greenish growth for 1-2 years.

Re Patios.
If it's really dirty then yes pressure wash it clean. Then apply patio magic yearly or two yearly and you'll never have to pressure wash it again

 

[NornaBiron]

Lots of things you can use to remove calcium buildup in tanks and pipes, hydrochloric acid, sulfamic acid, acetic acid, EDTA etc.

However, I've never heard of benzalkonium chloride for this purpose and doubt it would do much. It isn't acidic nor a chelating agent and I doubt it would do much to dissolve calcium. Where did you hear that it was good for calcium removal? I would not reccomend using Patio Magic in a holding tank as it is VERY bad for aquatic organisms. I do brush it sparingly on teak as most of it binds pretty well with the teak and there's virtually no run-off by time boat is back in the water. I wouldn't ever stick it into a holding tank.

The following was given to us by a fellow cruiser. As I said, I have no experience with benzalkonium chloride but I have no reason to doubt what David has written in the following write-up.


BENZALKONIUM CHLORIDE Solving the Scale problem
I worked as an industrial chemist for many years and did a number of chemical cleans on calcium scales. It is definitely not advisable to use acids on stainless steel (either 304 or 316, which are commonly used for macerators and sea cocks) in the presence of high chloride concentrations (eg salt water). Both 304 and 316 stainless steel will crack and/or pit in the presence of acid and chloride (salt water). The rubber gaskets used throughout toilets and on plugs will distort in the presence of organic acids such as acetic acid (vinegar). I believe I have found a solution to the scale problem and now have over two years’ experience without touching the toilet and pipe work because of scale. A compound called benzalkonium chloride at around five percent will cause the scale to lift off (but not dissolve). It comes away from the pipes as an eggshell-like scale if the pipe work is lightly scaled, and can be discharged through the normal 32mm outlet. Benzalkonium chloride is an antibacterial compound and commonly found in eye drops. If the pipe work and holding tank have a scale build-up, the benzalkonium chloride will cause all the scale to detach, resulting in major blockages. It is advisable to start with new pipe work and use the benzalkonium chloride about once or twice a week. There is one Australian manufacturer selling a product incorporating benzalkonium chloride. Whiteley make a product called “Superbowl”. Other manufacturers may have a similar product. Five litres lasts about six months and costs a little under Aus $30. It is available from some chemical cleaner suppliers found in light industrial suburbs. We buy it in Coffs Harbour but have not looked in other ports. Some friends cruising in Asia managed to buy a stronger solution of just benzalkonium chloride and proceeded to block their toilet discharge pipe work. We also blocked our pipe work on first application of Superbowl, but once cleared, it has remained clear for over two years, with at least once per week overnight soaking. Such a soaking involves about 100ml of the Superbowl or 5 - 10% Benzalkonium chloride solution, mixed in the bowl and flushed through. Ensure all pipe work exposed to urine and seawater, up to the outlet seacock, contains some of the dilute solution and that the outlet seacock is shut.
Dave and Melinda Gunn SV Sassoon Suppliers: Australia: Whiteley Products “Superbowl”
Malaysia: 352 Chulia Street, Penang. This outlet sells a concentrate which should be diluted about 10:1 with water. Add a little detergent to aid penetration. A little perfume can be added if you wish.
Pool Suppliers: Benzalkonium Chloride is used as an algaecide and could be available at pool supply outlets

 

[pvb]

Benzalkonium chloride has surfactant properties, which is maybe how it helps to loosen limescale, if it does.

 

[VicS]

Benzalkonium chloride has surfactant properties, which is maybe how it helps to loosen limescale, if it does.

I suspect a lot of these calcium carbonate deposits are bound together, and possibly to the substrate, by bacterial growth. If so the antibacterial properties of benzalkonium chloride may well also help to loosen them.

 

[Mistroma]

I've never tried it so can't say that it won't work, but interesting to hear about it. I was originally thinking about dissolving calcium but I guess that it might dislodge scale via surfactant & phase-transfer catalyst properties. Vics makes a good point as well and he might be more informed as it's more than 30 years since I worked as a chemist.

I personally wouldn't consider it for 2 reasons:

1) Benzalkonium chloride is extremely toxic to marine life and flushing it through a holding tank & pipes every 1-2 weeks sounds like a bad idea.
2) I've never had a problem with calcium build-up in a boat

My first line of defence is copious flushing (approx. 7 strokes/m pipe + 2-3 extra at end) unless using holding tank. I'm fortunate to have a boat with 2 heads and mainly pee in the forward one (no holding tank). I guess that avoids virtually all calcium deposits.

I also use hydrochloric acid a few times each season but always flush through with fresh water first to minimise chloride ion concentration for very reason mentioned earlier.

Never seen any sign of calcium build up in either pipes or tank during end of season maintenance.