Paperwork problems in Portugal

[mwngr]

A motor cruiser that was purchased 2001 from a dealer in Portugal-Originally Portuguese registered VAT paid inport duty etc.
New owners from the UK de registered then changed to UK reg.

Owner wanted to -avoid circulation tax.

The owner has been charged VAT also needs a -yes you guest it T2L-this is on-going now happend a week ago

Note-this happens often if you have an address in the UK & Portugal you have a choice-its cheaper to UK register a boat however increasing agrovation from customs sadly in some cases boaters pay to avoid problems ahead when they do not understand.

Hi Boattaxexpert,

Your post on the UK boat owner above being asked to pay VAT again - did this actually happen? Surely that's illegal on the part of the authorities if he could prove it had already been paid...?

They are asking me to do the same - similar circs - I can prove VAT was paid on the boat in 2001.

Any more info gratefully received..

 

[Imperial One]

We have just sent a boat to Portugal and the owner needed a T2L. He also had to have one done for his last boat when that sold. Both are fully VAT paid but the T2L was demanded by the authorities.
It is easily produced and Peters and May did the job for, I think, £13. All they needed was the Vat Invoice to see that VAT had been paid. So all in all it is an easy enough matter to get one of these T2L forms for little money and save yourself the hassle - even though I agree that it should not really be necessary given that we are all part of the same banana republic called the EU and supposed to have cross border travel and freedom of movement of goods with VAT payment proof being accepted across all member states.
Great idea, if only it worked in practice.

 

[mwngr]

Thank you very much for this, Imperial One - I hope it's as easy as you say... the boat in question was actually bought in Portugal, VAT paid, and subsequently reflagged. so in theory the Portugese authorities should be issuing the T2L. Madness...

 

[jfm]

Thank you very much for this, Imperial One - I hope it's as easy as you say... the boat in question was actually bought in Portugal, VAT paid, and subsequently reflagged. so in theory the Portugese authorities should be issuing the T2L. Madness...

I just shipped my boat UK-to-Italy and Italian customs agent asked for a T2L, which the shipping company (sevenstar) provided. The T2L is the SAD (single administrative document) and is widely used in commercial shipment of goods, but even though it may not be customary for cruising yachtsmen to carry it I cannot see that the Portuguese are wrong in asking for it (for a yacht stopping in Portugal, not passing through) as it is the right bit of paper. The VAT-paid invoice is the wrong bit of paper, even though the whole yachting community has created this massive urban myth that it is the right bit of paper, but let's not go there in this thread...

It has occured to me that perhaps anyone can make a T2L. The UK name of the form is C88 (status), I think. Thing is, the company filling in the form needs to have VAT number, it seems, but I wonder if you'd be ok if you merely wrote your NI number preceeded by "GB", if you're a UK person, or something

 

[jfm]

so in theory the Portugese authorities should be issuing the T2L

No. The shipper, not the tax authority, creates the T2L

 

[mwngr]

From previous posts my impression was that HMRC create the T2L, or shippers who have been approved by HMRC.
Portugese Authorities want a certified copy, which implies HMRC ???

 

[mwngr]

...and I am the shipper - I drove the boat back into Portugal.

 

[jfm]

From previous posts my impression was that HMRC create the T2L, or shippers who have been approved by HMRC.
Portugese Authorities want a certified copy, which implies HMRC ???

All I can do is repeat that HMRC do not make T2Ls (and didn't make the one that I have for my boat). Happy to agree to differ. "Certified copy" does not at all imply HMRC: as well as not making T2Ls, HMRC do not certify documents

 

[MapisM]

It has occured to me that perhaps anyone can make a T2L. The UK name of the form is C88 (status), I think. Thing is, the company filling in the form needs to have VAT number, it seems, but I wonder if you'd be ok if you merely wrote your NI number preceeded by "GB", if you're a UK person, or something

J, just as a FIY, according to the IT regulations (I can post the link if you're interested, but it's in Italian), it's not just a matter of being a VAT subject.
Only shipping companies authorised to handle custom-relevant shipments can issue a T2L.
I'd be surprised if the UK would allow private individuals to issue such papers, but I'm saying this just on a common sense basis.

 

[jfm]

J, just as a FIY, according to the IT regulations (I can post the link if you're interested, but it's in Italian), it's not just a matter of being a VAT subject.
Only shipping companies authorised to handle custom-relevant shipments can issue a T2L.
I'd be surprised if the UK would allow private individuals to issue such papers, but I'm saying this just on a common sense basis.

OK, makes sense. Just on that point, I was guessing/speculating, as I said.

I think therefore someone could get a shipping company/freight forwarding agent in any port) to issue a T2L for a fee (about €40 seems to be the fee for this when done by a freight forwarder), and then use that document for a transportation of a yacht from country X to Portugal. Seems a small bit of hassle, but if it ticks the box and makes the Portuguese officials happy then it might be worth doing.

 

[mbourne]

Can you advise how to go about the documentation when buying in Spain and bringing the boat into Portugal? At pesent I do not know what documentation the boat has except that it states in the advert that the documentation is "complete". The boat is second hand and I think the seller is a private individual. I have a RYA Certificate of Competence for Yachmaster Offshore and previously (in 2005 )owned a boat which was berthed in Vilamoura, so I am aware of some of the problems. The boat will not be kept in a marina,

 

[Make]

Just bought boat in Vilamoura, Know customs have emailed me to request I produce a T2L certificate , invoice ,vat receipt, and registration paper, and have 15 days to prepuce them,

 

[nortada]

Just bought boat in Vilamoura, Know customs have emailed me to request I produce a T2L certificate , invoice ,vat receipt, and registration paper, and have 15 days to prepuce them,

As a yottie, have just been made aware of this problem, which appears to have been on the go for more than 2 years?

Does it just apply to boats freighted (rather tan sailed into Portugal) & is it just a power boat problem or is anybody aware if sail boat owners have also been approached for a T2L?

 

[GrahamM376]

As a yottie, have just been made aware of this problem, which appears to have been on the go for more than 2 years?

Does it just apply to boats freighted (rather tan sailed into Portugal) & is it just a power boat problem or is anybody aware if sail boat owners have also been approached for a T2L?

I've only heard of one case before, post No. 1 (the OP's) in this thread. T2L should only apply to goods in transit but Make doesn't give any details about his purchase - has the boat just arrived in Vilamoura for sale, or has it been based there for some time (not in transit), what nationality is it etc.

Suggest he doesn't hang around getting the paperwork together as they're very quick to issue fines. I met one guy who had been fined for not being able to produce SSR while it was away being renewed. Photocopy of the expiring one sent back to UK didn't work.

 

[nortada]

Graham,

Thanks for getting back & the info.

This whole issue has surfaced following a post on the Lagos Navigators Bulletin Board apparently referring to a problem with a boat built in 1981?

At present details are sparse but it is being discussed on their forum so hopefully will get to the bottom of it in the not to distant future.

As this is on the Mobo forum, to get the broadest cover, I have raised it on the liveaboard forum but as of now, no response.

As they say - forewarned is forearmed.

 

[nortada]

Further to my last message - courtesy of the RYA, the Lagos Navigators Forum appears to have the full answer to this problem.

All well that ends well.

 

[nortada]

Seems that Form T2L has once again become an issue in Portugal go to http://lagosnavigators.freeforums.org/t2l-forms-t329-10.html

 

[GrahamM376]

Seems that Form T2L has once again become an issue in Portugal go to http://lagosnavigators.freeforums.org/t2l-forms-t329-10.html

Chip, Maybe I'm missing something but can only find a post which resurrects the old thread. Have Customs asked someone for the paperwork recently? Where? Graham.

 

[Jegs]

Typical bleating Brit attitude, everyone is wrong and should adopt UK systems - no thanks. I like the UK less each time I go "home" for short periods.

Life over here is more relaxed with a much cheaper cost of living and public transport for those who want to use it. OK so I admit some things aren't ideal but, if you can't accept that the majority of other countries do things differently then don't go there, stay on the isolated island.

Your "life" relies, in part, on handouts from Brussels some of which comes from England, it's not a matter of isolation more a case of spongeing.

ATB,

John G

 

[GrahamM376]

Your "life" relies, in part, on handouts from Brussels some of which comes from England, it's not a matter of isolation more a case of spongeing. ATB, John G

And your post quoting a 3 year old comment has what bearing on the current posting about VAT paperwork?