Snowgoose-1
Well-Known Member
Noticed in marinas most peeps have one spring . I have always used two in finger berths. Often we limited to where cleats are positioned but are two really necessary.
One or Two springs when moored.
- Thread starter Snowgoose-1
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Moodysailor
Well-Known Member
On our last boat always two, but she was 44', and heavy...
johnalison
Well-Known Member
It depends on the size of the boat and the cleat positions. On my home berth I just have two bow lines, a spring, and a short stern line. If the spring were to fail the stern line would prevent the boat from riding forward.
When visiting other marinas I would invariably use both fore and aft springs. Long springs will prevent snatching from the shorter bow and stern lines and give a quieter night as well as reduce scuffing on the fenders.
When visiting other marinas I would invariably use both fore and aft springs. Long springs will prevent snatching from the shorter bow and stern lines and give a quieter night as well as reduce scuffing on the fenders.
Pye_End
Well-Known Member
If wind is from one direction and no tide then one spring works. If tidal need both if more than one tide. Sometimes bow or stern lines are set at an angle (other than around 90 degrees), so kind of do both jobs, negating the need for both. If you are being kind to your boat in sometimes poor conditions then both.
D
Deleted member 36384
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Do you mean 2 lines, one for each spring, or one line, used for both springs, or just one spring?
I think if you can you should use 2 springs to take account of the variables that can shove your boat one way or another.
However, it’s obvious that some short finger pontoons the line from the point of the boat not supported by the pontoon, is trying to act as both a spring and brest line.
My berth is like the short pontoon example. I use 2 springs and the spring like brest line. At the seaward side, I use a single spring to a cleat on the pontoon, shared with my neighbour, to pull the boat off. This is where 2 springs work well on short pontoons, to help keep the boat parallel to the pontoon.
I think if you can you should use 2 springs to take account of the variables that can shove your boat one way or another.
However, it’s obvious that some short finger pontoons the line from the point of the boat not supported by the pontoon, is trying to act as both a spring and brest line.
My berth is like the short pontoon example. I use 2 springs and the spring like brest line. At the seaward side, I use a single spring to a cleat on the pontoon, shared with my neighbour, to pull the boat off. This is where 2 springs work well on short pontoons, to help keep the boat parallel to the pontoon.
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Csfisher
Active Member
Force of habit from working on big ships, I always try and use bow and stern, fwd and aft breasts, and two springs. I also believe in one line one job.
I also so the cleating to the boat with only the spliced end placed over the cleat on the dock so that other boats can use the same cleat (by dipping the eye).
If I was there only for the night, then I'd perhaps forego the breasts if conditions were light.
While docking the boat this may not be the configuration I use, but once engine is off and boat settled I'll go out and rearrange.
I have seen only single springs used (3 lines total) but I wouldn't be comfortable with these even though I've seen it done reliably.
If you don't have that many lines, you can use longer lines to double up their jobs but just ensure they way they're setup allows it to still do their other job if it was to part in one place.
I also so the cleating to the boat with only the spliced end placed over the cleat on the dock so that other boats can use the same cleat (by dipping the eye).
If I was there only for the night, then I'd perhaps forego the breasts if conditions were light.
While docking the boat this may not be the configuration I use, but once engine is off and boat settled I'll go out and rearrange.
I have seen only single springs used (3 lines total) but I wouldn't be comfortable with these even though I've seen it done reliably.
If you don't have that many lines, you can use longer lines to double up their jobs but just ensure they way they're setup allows it to still do their other job if it was to part in one place.
Bobc
Well-Known Member
There's no right or wrong answer. All you're trying to do is keep the boat from surging forwards and backwards, and as long as the ropes you have on do that, then you're good to go.
TLouth7
Well-Known Member
In theory you can fully constrain a boat against a quay/pontoon with three warps. However to hold the boat stationary you need all three warps to be fully tight. Given the presence of waves and so on it is impossible to have tight breastlines; they would prevent the boat from pitching.
If you have two loose breastlines and one spring then the boat is free to move fore-and-aft somewhat, which results in rubbing along the quay/pontoon. This will rapidly destroy your fenders and then topsides. In contrast springs can be made much tighter than breastlines because they cross (or are secured close to) the longitudinal centre of the boat. Thus with two springs the boat rotates about the point where it touches the pontoon, with the rotation limited by the breastlines; this rotation results in less wear on the fenders.
If you have two loose breastlines and one spring then the boat is free to move fore-and-aft somewhat, which results in rubbing along the quay/pontoon. This will rapidly destroy your fenders and then topsides. In contrast springs can be made much tighter than breastlines because they cross (or are secured close to) the longitudinal centre of the boat. Thus with two springs the boat rotates about the point where it touches the pontoon, with the rotation limited by the breastlines; this rotation results in less wear on the fenders.
Bobc
Well-Known Member
Unless you're on a short finger where the stern breastline is secured close to midships.
ProDave
Well-Known Member
Don't forget a bilge keel boat in a drying harbour the boat might sit higher than the pontoon at low water so dont tie it too tight.
TLouth7
Well-Known Member
I would call that a spring!
In berths with short fingers it is normally possible (or necessary) to do away with the stern breastline and instead use two bow breastlines on opposite sides.
Spirit (of Glenans)
Well-Known Member
I'm a firm believer in Saint Tom's dictum of "one rope one job", but I would consider two springs and bow and stern lines enough, (but other people will have heavier boats). The only time I would use one rope to do two jobs would be to loop a bight at the midpoint of a long rope through a mid pontoon cleat and use this to rig the two springs, but generally I use two separate ropes for springs. They can be adjusted from on board. Unfortunately, although all my warps have spliced loops, I don't have big enough cleats to do the proper thing and rig all the lo ps onto the ponntoon cleats and belay ('OXO') the other ends to the boat's cleats.
doug748
Well-Known Member
I normally use four lines when staying aboard on a regular pontoon:
1/2 Port and Stb off the bow
3 That line, spring or breast line whatever, that we take from the end of the pontoon to the boat's quarter.
Plus
4 A spring leading forward to prevent the boat going into the head of the berth.
On my home berth or when leaving the boat unattended, I lead another spring forward. Acts as a back up and in really poor conditions helps prevent the boat surging into the walkway.
(Actually I sometimes add an extra line 3 as well)
So, basically, I think I do the same as you.
.
Pump-Out
Well-Known Member
I'm with Mr Fisher:
Whilst not all berths, especially in modern marinas will permit the "six lines" rule it should, IMHO, be the dream solution. I'd never leave anything on three lines; should one fail, for whatever reason, your boat is in trouble.
Csfisher
Active Member
I
I can't say I've ever had a marina impose rules like that? I think if you were trying to leave all the lines cleated on the pontoon end rather than adjusted from on the boat then maybe someone would say something; but so long as you only put the spliced end around the cleat on the pontoon then you're not affecting anyone else as they can dip their eye through your splice and either one of you can unmoor without affecting the other.
Where things do get difficult, is when mooring outboard of another boat at a visitor berth for example; at which point it's just a case of doing what you can.
But I always recommend carrying a couple of VERY long moorings lines. Not only are they useful if you ever have to jury rig something onboard; but it means even when 2 or 3 abreast at a mooring you can still run a bow and stern line to the pontoon. I'd never want to rely on another boats mooring lines entirely.
This did become quite a challenge in Cowes one year when I think we were about 6 boats abreast at the very end of a pontoon.
I can't say I've ever had a marina impose rules like that? I think if you were trying to leave all the lines cleated on the pontoon end rather than adjusted from on the boat then maybe someone would say something; but so long as you only put the spliced end around the cleat on the pontoon then you're not affecting anyone else as they can dip their eye through your splice and either one of you can unmoor without affecting the other.
Where things do get difficult, is when mooring outboard of another boat at a visitor berth for example; at which point it's just a case of doing what you can.
But I always recommend carrying a couple of VERY long moorings lines. Not only are they useful if you ever have to jury rig something onboard; but it means even when 2 or 3 abreast at a mooring you can still run a bow and stern line to the pontoon. I'd never want to rely on another boats mooring lines entirely.
This did become quite a challenge in Cowes one year when I think we were about 6 boats abreast at the very end of a pontoon.
LONG_KEELER
Well-Known Member
I wonder if anyone has asked for additional cleats or the repositioning of them. I have seen what look like extra DIY cleats.
Pump-Out
Well-Known Member
Um, I am supporting your previous points, I agree with everything you posted at post #6.
I used the word "rule" as in that what appears in all the seamanship manuals for larger vessels, as your experience shows. I did not mean "rule" as in some harbour assistant doing inspections on all recently arrived yachts.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
I agree with (at least) two springs. And leaving a boat unattended in winter we double up the key ropes - even though the primaries are over sized and with rubber shock absorbers. We currently have 9 ropes on, 3 being slightly slack “backup” ropes.
Even in a sheltered marina the forces on the ropes in a F10 are huge - and if you regularly over-winter you will get that or more at some stage. We have had a 14mm line chafe through in a week, when a bit of pontoon got damaged and started chafing the rope. Fortunately the backup did its job till we were able to check it.
Csfisher
Active Member
OOOOOOOH okay gotcha!
Csfisher
Active Member
Now on the topic of doubling up, I do like to do this also if staying for a while. And while I do like to do one line one job, I will use the same line to double up - i.e. OXO on the boats cleat with the spliced end on the pontoon as one line, and then the excess line back to the pontoon with a bowline knot around the cleat and then take in the slack on the cleat on the boat. This DOES become difficult though of you only have small cleats on the boat.
When I want to leave the marina, I will re rig the lines as appropriate for the conditions usually so that they can be slipped from the boat
This is how we do it on the ship's I work on, our lines are spliced at both ends. Of course we have bollards and not cleats on the ship, but the principle is the same.
When I want to leave the marina, I will re rig the lines as appropriate for the conditions usually so that they can be slipped from the boat
This is how we do it on the ship's I work on, our lines are spliced at both ends. Of course we have bollards and not cleats on the ship, but the principle is the same.
