One MAN engine fails on last day end last trip of our summer holliday’s

[MapisM]

The MAN engineers suspects that the crack in the cooling water cirquit came first,
then came a very strong vibration, that caused the damper and much more to break,

I still believe that running the engine too long with a broken damper caused all the damage, also the cracks in the coolingwater cirquit (?)

Fwiw, I also would bet on the damper rather than the crack, as primary reason for the fault.
Not that it matters a lot... But It would be interesting to hear the view of our engine gurus on this matter, just out of curiosity.
Anyway, all the very best B for a perfect repair, and at a reasonable cost.

 

[scubaman]

Anyway, all the very best B for a perfect repair, and at a reasonable cost.

+1

 

[petem]

For the non mechanically minded, are these solely ancillary (turbo), component (crank, etc), engine block issues or all three?

Anyhow, hope you get it sorted soon Bart.

 

[kcrane]

Anyway, all the very best B for a perfect repair, and at a reasonable cost.

+1

++1

 

[longjohnsilver]

Yes, hope it all goes as well as expected, at least it happened at the end of the season. Hopefully you'll be up and running for the start of the new year.

 

[Latestarter1]

Bart,

Not mentioned so far but does repairer have access to a dyno?

Following catastrophic failure I would suggest an extended load test, simply running up in the workshop is not sufficient.

Never bothered looking at the lube circuit in detail, but many engine manufacturers require replacement not just cleaning of oil coolers following failure. If any doubt ensure critical components are replaced not simply flushed.

 

[jfm]

As I understand it latestarter the engine will be rebuilt inside the engine room hence no space for dyno. A test drive will be a proxy for the dyno!

 

[Latestarter1]

As I understand it latestarter the engine will be rebuilt inside the engine room hence no space for dyno. A test drive will be a proxy for the dyno!

Always happens to me on long threads, getting old, stupid and impatient when most comments were simply offering condolences, teach me to follow posts properly.

I oversee some 14 litre bow thruster engines, at overhaul time everything has to come in and out via deck hatch. Later vessels were built with proper access hatch, classification societies considerably in their views on access hatches. Very difficult to do a quality rebuild in situ, even more reason to fit new coolers rather than flushing.

 

[jfm]

Tee hee. You can be as old, stupid and impatient as you want Latestarter but we love your posts!

Yep, the big compromise on modern boats of this size is the big size of the engines and total lack of any access hatch. It's asking a lot to do a rebuild inside the e/room. I guess ancillaries can be taken out to a workshop, including oil coolers, but sure it must make sense in a case like this (where much swarf has been created) to replace them

BartW, please forgive the morbid curiosity here but it would be educational to see some pictures inside the e/room of this project underway. We are of course all rooting for you from our keyboards

 

[jrudge]

Our S65 has a wooden saloon floor for the first 6 feet odd and then reverts to fibreglass. The wood and glass are at the same level and unless you had seen the boat in build you would not know it is there. The factory confirmed its sole reason for existence is so you can get the engines out in need without destroying the boat.

That was nice of them!

 

[jfm]

Our S65 has a wooden saloon floor for the first 6 feet odd and then reverts to fibreglass. The wood and glass are at the same level and unless you had seen the boat in build you would not know it is there. The factory confirmed its sole reason for existence is so you can get the engines out in need without destroying the boat.

That was nice of them!

All my squadrons (the 58s and the 78s) were/are the same j. Thing is, you cannot be sure to get a long lifting arm in thru the saloon doors so as to remove the engines thru the doors. The Sq78 therefore has a soft patch in the flybridge deck to remove the engines that way, and yours might be the same

 

[MarieK]

Excuse thread drift but explain "soft patch". Just a sacrificial section of the FB that could be cut out and replaced later?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Yep, the big compromise on modern boats of this size is the big size of the engines and total lack of any access hatch.

Depends on the type of modern boat, jfm One of the advantages of using V drives as on my Ferretti is that the complete cockpit sole is removable to facilitate lifting of the engines

 

[jfm]

Depends on the type of modern boat, jfm One of the advantages of using V drives as on my Ferretti is that the complete cockpit sole is removable to facilitate lifting of the engines

I was talking generally, not at your or my boats which are honourable exceptions . My boat has an easily removable saloon floor and soft patch in the fly deck to help ease the pain

You might think my flybridge deck soft patch is harder than removing just your aft deck, but consider how a long cantilevered crane boom stiff enough to lift a v12will be placed over your engines, and then lift them clear over the transom while limited by the height of the deckhead/flybridge overhang. You may wish you had a hole in the flybridge deck at this point in the proceedings !! Only pulling your leg here and not trying to play top trumps - removing engines on either of our boats, even though they have the nice soft patch effort from the builder, is always going to be a bit of a nightmare

 

[BartW]

last night the verdict was bad,
engine block might be damaged, some crakshaft bearings have been turning in their seats
engine block needs to go out for accurate inspection
today we prepared all for lifting the engine out, opening cockpit hatch and flybridge hatch (not as difficult as expected)
tomorrow morning navigate on one engine to the quay where comes the truck with a crane. (just 1 mile)
made lots of pics, will post later,
here just an appitizer

cockpit hatch is open on SB side, middle and Port section is also free now, leaving one BIG opening, but behind the position of the engines
on the right side you can see the passerel, although I disconnected all electric wires, we realised its a too big job to get that out, casing around it in utility room needs to be taken appart, so decided not to do that.

You can also see the cradle they build to lift and move the engine backwards

on the bottom is the gearbox

and on the top you can see the engine with missing turbo's, no in and outlet manifolds, no heat exchangers, no intercooler, etc etc etc
and missing cylinder heads !

tomorrow around lunch time I have to catch the plane back to the office for a important meeting Friday morning.

everything else is OK !

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

but consider how a long cantilevered crane boom stiff enough to lift a v12will be placed over your engines, and then lift them clear over the transom while limited by the height of the deckhead/flybridge overhang.

Fair point but on the other hand, I will only have a small hole in my transom whereas you will have a big hole in your flybridge Overall though, this is a scenario I would definitely prefer not to think about and Bart has my utmost sympathy

 

[jfm]

Excuse thread drift but explain "soft patch". Just a sacrificial section of the FB that could be cut out and replaced later?

It's a halfway house. Speaking of my own boat, but others are similar where the builder has same idea, there is a designed rectangular hole that you cut in the flybridge deck to open up the saloon. The engines can come up through this hole. The teak deck on the fly has to be cut around this rectangle and the planks replaced at end of job. The GRP skin under the teak also has to be cut, and re-GRPed back into palce at the end of the project. But the box section ali space frame that supports the superstructure has a big unbolt-able rectangle section, and all the important wiring bypasses this rectangle, thus making the job somewhat easier

A few pics, and sorry for thread drift so let's not get too deep into this:
First is my flybridge deck being moulded, early days, just the GRP skin which is cut and repaired to get the rectangular hole. Forward end is to right of pic
Second pic has the reinforcing in. Looking aft. The soft patch is just this side of the guy standing. Where the white bucket is sitting
Third pic is close up of soft patch, this time looking forward - you can see the white bucket. To the left and right of the white bucket you can just see the gaps where there are joints in the aluminium box section reinforcing frame
4th and last pic, again looking forwards, contains right at the bottom of the picture a close up of the aluminium box section unboltable joints - the soft patch is mostly chopped off the bottom of the picture

 

[jfm]

OK back to BA, enough thread drift!

Bart, sorry to hear that news but huge respect to you for can-do attitude. I really like the solution your guys are using, to cut a hole in the aft deck then make a frame to lift the engines backwards. Seems a very smart idea, if the layout works. Good luck with the next stage.

 

[BartW]

I didn't realise that you were negotiating engine exit from a flybridge boat while I was preparing my previous post,
negotiating a engine exit, that's what we did here the best part of today, I even called my friends ex Canados workers in Italy, but they couldn't help me any further.
they wanted me to take out the nice solid parket floor in the saloon !!! NO WAY !!!

On the teak pattern we could see that there was a preparation for hatches in the cockpit,

but we started with the one in the pic, and found it very difficult to get it lifted,
finally it was a combination of the hatch glued on the supporting wooden edge, hidden screws from down up, and caulking too strong in certain area's.

BUT
we were very Lucky to have a "Fein" tool onboard.

the reason for this visit to the boat and bring my Carpenter friend, ao was to do a few repairs on the Caulking (small leaks to the cabins)
for this I invested in the last en best version of a "Fein" tool,
I used to have a low budget alternative onboard, but Fein has a special dedicated U shaped accesory, for cutting Caulking,
I also bought a wide range of other accesories,
and this machine probably was the best thing we had the last 3 day's,
for jobs such as : removing and cutting old Caulking, sanding and smoothing Caulking grooves,...
but also for the hatch removal,
removing the caulking, cutting glue between wooden beams, cutting screws, cutting panels that stick out, releasing ceiling cover panels, etc etc etc

so moral of the story,
If you want to remove a engine from a flybridge boat, you need a Fein tool.

also for standard diy jobs on a boat, I can strongly recommand the Fein !!!

back to the engine removal
this morning, plan was still to remove the engine going over the gunwale,
but accurate measurements showed that this would be impossible, not enough hight,
I never imagined that I ever had to open the FB hatch above the cockpit, but a bit more than one hour later it was open.
the MAN boy's (3) have shifted the engineblock to the back, so now its in the position to be lifted from above the flybridge tomorrow morning,
yes yes I know should post pics, that's for later sorry.

 

[jfm]

for this I invested in the last en best version of a "Fein" tool,
I used to have a low budget alternative onboard, but Fein has a special dedicated U shaped accesory, for cutting Caulking,
I also bought a wide range of other accesories,
and this machine probably was the best thing we had the last 3 day's.

Yes it's brilliant. I had a low budget one on board too, plus one at my house, then I needed to remove a deck panel to fix the passerelle so I bought the real Fein with the J shape tool for removing caulking. Out of the three that I now have (!) the Fein is the best - I know exactly what you mean Bart!

Good luck with the lift tomorrow