rafiki_
Well-Known Member
So, there should be a couple of cylinders rustier than the others? The ones with open exhaust valves? I could buy that.
One MAN engine fails on last day end last trip of our summer holliday’s
- Thread starter BartW
- Start date
BartW
Well-Known Member
yes thats what I think,
BartW
Well-Known Member
or the added water came in the manifold,
and came in to the cylinders during the 1/4 turn from my first "cranc attemp'
the engine didn't appear to turn more than 1/4...1/2 turn,
There were 6 cylinders filled with water,
all 6 on the same side, the side with the broken exhaust manifold
so far there was no indication of overheating on the liners nor the pistons
BartW
Well-Known Member
update
the engine is almost completely disassembled, and parts are checked and veryfied
apart from the exhaust manifold, no other damage from the overheating was found,
the crancshaft is completely within tollerance
got the parts list and quote for the repair, (just a bit more than half from the first engine)
major parts after the overheating are 2 exhaust manifolds (only one is broken, but both were overheated)
and oil coolers,
new valves and new valve guides
then for the rebuild, to be replaced anyway:
vibration damper
new pistons, new liners,
and many bearings and gaskets
the injector nozzles were already replaced before the season,
injection pump is going to Bosch service in Koper Slovenia, (not to Serbia anymore)
plan is to send out both pumps.
The Serbian rebuild pump is only running on 6 pistons at idle, (this is the normal setting from that injectionpump according Bosch Serbia)
the pump on the other engine is / was running on all 12 cylinders at idle
The service center in Koper will be instructed to check both pumps, and make them the same.
They have rebuild exactly the same pumps from another customer for Ilko, (from a old Moonen yacht) just a few months ago.
the engine is almost completely disassembled, and parts are checked and veryfied
apart from the exhaust manifold, no other damage from the overheating was found,
the crancshaft is completely within tollerance
got the parts list and quote for the repair, (just a bit more than half from the first engine)
major parts after the overheating are 2 exhaust manifolds (only one is broken, but both were overheated)
and oil coolers,
new valves and new valve guides
then for the rebuild, to be replaced anyway:
vibration damper
new pistons, new liners,
and many bearings and gaskets
the injector nozzles were already replaced before the season,
injection pump is going to Bosch service in Koper Slovenia, (not to Serbia anymore)
plan is to send out both pumps.
The Serbian rebuild pump is only running on 6 pistons at idle, (this is the normal setting from that injectionpump according Bosch Serbia)
the pump on the other engine is / was running on all 12 cylinders at idle
The service center in Koper will be instructed to check both pumps, and make them the same.
They have rebuild exactly the same pumps from another customer for Ilko, (from a old Moonen yacht) just a few months ago.
Last edited:
AndieMac
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the update Bart, your are fortunate to have enough room in the engine bay to perform this major work.
You mentioned measuring the propellor shafts for wear previously, with BA being a commercial vessel these days, is it a requirement that the shafts (rudder and engine) are pulled and checked, as well as sea valves inspection, every two years like in this country?.
You mentioned measuring the propellor shafts for wear previously, with BA being a commercial vessel these days, is it a requirement that the shafts (rudder and engine) are pulled and checked, as well as sea valves inspection, every two years like in this country?.
BartW
Well-Known Member
Update on the engine rebuild’s,
Reminder,
in winter 2015 rebuild done on the SB engine, after a catastrophic failure of the vibration damper, engine was taken out the boat for that.
in winter 2016 rebuild the P engine, work was done in the boat.
2015 season we have been sailing with one rebuild engine,
Initially after the rebuild we had a water temp problem,
Turned out to be:
- A small perforation in a rubber connecting hose between L-R side of the coolling cirquit,
- Temp gauges at the FB reading unaccurate due to corrosion in some connections
Actually the engine was running perfect and smooth.
2016 season we ran with two “new” engines.
As we had planned a long trip during holliday’s, we did quite a few sea trials before the summer.
As I was very critical and suspicious, each occasion we found other small issues; ao,
- Engine hunting,
Advice from the forum gave us the hint to check the throttle control rods,
“play” on some ball joints was the problem,
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...be-the-cause&p=5708354&highlight=#post5708354
we replaced some old ball joints, and still a few to be replaced, but problem is clearly isolated, partially solved
- Fluctuating temp, turned out again to be corroded connections in temp gauge cabling
Engine temp measured with IR gun is perfectly stable 80°C all summer, and at every speed.
- Water level alarm; broken sensor in combination with bad connection
- Oil pressure alarm at idle under load;
rpm was going just too low during manouvring with a hot engine, in combination with a sensitive sensor.
Re-adjusting idle rpm a tiny bit higher cured the alarm.(idle under load is set just above 600rpm now)
- At one moment the spacers under one engine mount come loose from their position,
so engine stood on 3 mounts only, luckily this was noticed fairly quickly,
Ilko fixed all and tightened all screws.
We don’t experience abnormal vibration, so all seems ok.
- The old mechanical RPM meters in the engine room don’t work anymore, but it seems hard to find the parts, this is still not solved,
For accurate rpm measurement I use a laser gun.
On the helm stations the analog sensor / rpm meters are accurate enough.
Then beginning july we left for our long trip to Venice,
Plan was to sail mostly at slow speed 10kn, 1000-1200 RPM
For having a smooth run-in time of the engines,
and not to punish them too hard in order not to damage anything during this long trip.
Only at the end of the Adriatic sea crossing to Venice we sailed one hour at 1800rpm / 18kn.
At arrival in Venice, all temps, oil and coolant levels were OK
6 day’s later we sailed back to Istria, Again mostly at 10kn 1100 rpm,
After arrival in Rovinj, I noticed some engine oil pooring over the SB engine, and quite a few liters in the bilge,
Oil came from under the fuel injection pump. (which is on top of the engine)
Oil level in the crank was just about minimum level
Calling with Ilko, he pointed immediately at a small O ring between the pump and the engine block, (for the oil circuit to the injectionpump)
No big deal to repair, but a lot of work to get acces taking off the injector pipes, and intercooler tubes, etc…
Ilko organized a few day’s later a local collegue in Zadar to look at it.
From Rovinj to Zadar I sailed at 10kn only, and checked the oil level frequently,
the leak produced approx. 200ml / oil per hour (just a guess)
This oil was in a puddle on top of the engine, that I pumped out in a canister after every major stop. (no more oil in the bilge anymore)
In Zadar “Romeo” came along, cleaned everything to find out what we already new,
The leak is between the injection pump and the engine block,
He was not brave enough to start the job, taking off the pump to fit a new O- ring (not enough time, etc..)
We made a appointment with another collegue of Ilko in Trogir, a couple of day’s later,
where we had planned to stay two nights (changeover of guests)
so there was at least one full day for the workers,
sailing to Trogir I continued regular oil level checks, and pumping out the puddle of oil on top of the engine, and adding some new oil in the crank.
In Trogir, Mate and his collegue came as promised, spend a few hours to dismantle, (he is a MAN guy / friend from Ilko)
They found a perforated O ring,
But then, they noticed that the O-ring seating on the pump was slightly damaged / corroded
They thought that a real repair would take a few day’s, but I told them that this was very anoying for the new guests onboard
So they proposed a temporary repair with some liquid metal, or tried with different kinds of epoxy,
but none of it worked out satisfactory for them.
Here you see some epoxy on the seating, but that didn’t stick on the de-greased metal surface
Here is the engine without the injection pump, and open gearbox
At 16h they took the pump and left to a metal worker in Sibenik,
Around 20h they came back with a repaired seating, the metalworker had made a circular groove with a router, and placed a small metal ring inside,
Seemed to me a real professional job, sorry no pic unfortunately,
They told me the hardest part was the fixing of the pump in the router, as the pump has no single flat surface….and is completely unsymmetric.
Around 23h they had reassembled the engine, and running again, all very good and clean,
Was very satisfied with the job,
gave the guy’s a big tip for their dedication !
The next day we left Trogir to Hvar,
All very good at 10kn 1100 rpm,
The following day we had a lot of sailing to do, so I wanted to sail at higher speed,
Unfortuinately the said engine, didn’t run higher than 1450rpm,
All throttles and levers were in fully open position,
No extra smoke, only 1450rpm, nothing else happened.
Calling with Ilko we did a few tests and replaced fuel filters, but none of it cured the problem.
So we continued our holliday’s sailing only at 10kn 1100rpm,
About one week later we were back in Tivat,
That was one week before our actual planning; we had to run / hide for bad weather during a few nights in Dubrovnik region,
Ilko had a look and noticed that a small hose, underneath the intercooler to the pump was not connected,
By this hose, the pump can “read” the air supply in or after the intercooler, and react accordingly.
He connected that hose and boat sailed nicely at 2000rpm 20kn
We continued our holliday’s , and during the last week, we sailed several hours at 20kn, for testing thorrowly,
We discovered a few tiny leaks, fuel on one injector pipe, fuel on a fuel filter, bit of oil from the intercooler, and from the crank breather, but nothing big.
Ilko will rectify
P engine has now done approx. 150hrs,
SB engine has done now approx. 300hrs,
Since overhaul,
So all in all, I believe we can say that the engines are well tested and OK now.
Some final itching, and painting of the P-engine todo.
Many Thanks to a few forum members, for some very usefull contributions in this thread !
just one more question,
I’m planning to replace all ball joints from the throttle controll on both engines
the remaining ones that haven’t been replaced
there is also quite a bit “play” on that damper on one rod
Any idea where I can get that part, doesn’t seem to be a MAN part.
In this pic you can see that damper, it has M6 threads in each side.
Reminder,
in winter 2015 rebuild done on the SB engine, after a catastrophic failure of the vibration damper, engine was taken out the boat for that.
in winter 2016 rebuild the P engine, work was done in the boat.
2015 season we have been sailing with one rebuild engine,
Initially after the rebuild we had a water temp problem,
Turned out to be:
- A small perforation in a rubber connecting hose between L-R side of the coolling cirquit,
- Temp gauges at the FB reading unaccurate due to corrosion in some connections
Actually the engine was running perfect and smooth.
2016 season we ran with two “new” engines.
As we had planned a long trip during holliday’s, we did quite a few sea trials before the summer.
As I was very critical and suspicious, each occasion we found other small issues; ao,
- Engine hunting,
Advice from the forum gave us the hint to check the throttle control rods,
“play” on some ball joints was the problem,
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...be-the-cause&p=5708354&highlight=#post5708354
we replaced some old ball joints, and still a few to be replaced, but problem is clearly isolated, partially solved
- Fluctuating temp, turned out again to be corroded connections in temp gauge cabling
Engine temp measured with IR gun is perfectly stable 80°C all summer, and at every speed.
- Water level alarm; broken sensor in combination with bad connection
- Oil pressure alarm at idle under load;
rpm was going just too low during manouvring with a hot engine, in combination with a sensitive sensor.
Re-adjusting idle rpm a tiny bit higher cured the alarm.(idle under load is set just above 600rpm now)
- At one moment the spacers under one engine mount come loose from their position,
so engine stood on 3 mounts only, luckily this was noticed fairly quickly,
Ilko fixed all and tightened all screws.
We don’t experience abnormal vibration, so all seems ok.
- The old mechanical RPM meters in the engine room don’t work anymore, but it seems hard to find the parts, this is still not solved,
For accurate rpm measurement I use a laser gun.
On the helm stations the analog sensor / rpm meters are accurate enough.
Then beginning july we left for our long trip to Venice,
Plan was to sail mostly at slow speed 10kn, 1000-1200 RPM
For having a smooth run-in time of the engines,
and not to punish them too hard in order not to damage anything during this long trip.
Only at the end of the Adriatic sea crossing to Venice we sailed one hour at 1800rpm / 18kn.
At arrival in Venice, all temps, oil and coolant levels were OK
6 day’s later we sailed back to Istria, Again mostly at 10kn 1100 rpm,
After arrival in Rovinj, I noticed some engine oil pooring over the SB engine, and quite a few liters in the bilge,
Oil came from under the fuel injection pump. (which is on top of the engine)
Oil level in the crank was just about minimum level
Calling with Ilko, he pointed immediately at a small O ring between the pump and the engine block, (for the oil circuit to the injectionpump)
No big deal to repair, but a lot of work to get acces taking off the injector pipes, and intercooler tubes, etc…
Ilko organized a few day’s later a local collegue in Zadar to look at it.
From Rovinj to Zadar I sailed at 10kn only, and checked the oil level frequently,
the leak produced approx. 200ml / oil per hour (just a guess)
This oil was in a puddle on top of the engine, that I pumped out in a canister after every major stop. (no more oil in the bilge anymore)
In Zadar “Romeo” came along, cleaned everything to find out what we already new,
The leak is between the injection pump and the engine block,
He was not brave enough to start the job, taking off the pump to fit a new O- ring (not enough time, etc..)
We made a appointment with another collegue of Ilko in Trogir, a couple of day’s later,
where we had planned to stay two nights (changeover of guests)
so there was at least one full day for the workers,
sailing to Trogir I continued regular oil level checks, and pumping out the puddle of oil on top of the engine, and adding some new oil in the crank.
In Trogir, Mate and his collegue came as promised, spend a few hours to dismantle, (he is a MAN guy / friend from Ilko)
They found a perforated O ring,
But then, they noticed that the O-ring seating on the pump was slightly damaged / corroded
They thought that a real repair would take a few day’s, but I told them that this was very anoying for the new guests onboard
So they proposed a temporary repair with some liquid metal, or tried with different kinds of epoxy,
but none of it worked out satisfactory for them.
Here you see some epoxy on the seating, but that didn’t stick on the de-greased metal surface
Here is the engine without the injection pump, and open gearbox
At 16h they took the pump and left to a metal worker in Sibenik,
Around 20h they came back with a repaired seating, the metalworker had made a circular groove with a router, and placed a small metal ring inside,
Seemed to me a real professional job, sorry no pic unfortunately,
They told me the hardest part was the fixing of the pump in the router, as the pump has no single flat surface….and is completely unsymmetric.
Around 23h they had reassembled the engine, and running again, all very good and clean,
Was very satisfied with the job,
gave the guy’s a big tip for their dedication !
The next day we left Trogir to Hvar,
All very good at 10kn 1100 rpm,
The following day we had a lot of sailing to do, so I wanted to sail at higher speed,
Unfortuinately the said engine, didn’t run higher than 1450rpm,
All throttles and levers were in fully open position,
No extra smoke, only 1450rpm, nothing else happened.
Calling with Ilko we did a few tests and replaced fuel filters, but none of it cured the problem.
So we continued our holliday’s sailing only at 10kn 1100rpm,
About one week later we were back in Tivat,
That was one week before our actual planning; we had to run / hide for bad weather during a few nights in Dubrovnik region,
Ilko had a look and noticed that a small hose, underneath the intercooler to the pump was not connected,
By this hose, the pump can “read” the air supply in or after the intercooler, and react accordingly.
He connected that hose and boat sailed nicely at 2000rpm 20kn
We continued our holliday’s , and during the last week, we sailed several hours at 20kn, for testing thorrowly,
We discovered a few tiny leaks, fuel on one injector pipe, fuel on a fuel filter, bit of oil from the intercooler, and from the crank breather, but nothing big.
Ilko will rectify
P engine has now done approx. 150hrs,
SB engine has done now approx. 300hrs,
Since overhaul,
So all in all, I believe we can say that the engines are well tested and OK now.
Some final itching, and painting of the P-engine todo.
Many Thanks to a few forum members, for some very usefull contributions in this thread !
just one more question,
I’m planning to replace all ball joints from the throttle controll on both engines
the remaining ones that haven’t been replaced
there is also quite a bit “play” on that damper on one rod
Any idea where I can get that part, doesn’t seem to be a MAN part.
In this pic you can see that damper, it has M6 threads in each side.
Last edited:
crazy4557
Well-Known Member
Bart, Whilst I do not have the knowledge to contribute to your thread in terms of the many problems you've encountered, I can say that it's an incredibly interesting journey that you've taken since deciding to go to a bigger boat. I've really enjoyed both this thread and the one regarding the purchase of the boat originally, but boy do you have some patience and deep pockets.
Good luck and happy and safe sailing.
Good luck and happy and safe sailing.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Great report Bart. I'm pleased to see that at least the continuing issues did not spoil your cruise to Venice and back too much. However as you say you have now got yourself into a position in which you have 2 engines which should not give any major problems for many years.
With regard to the ball joints it may be worth contacting the UK MAN dealer http://www.mandiesel.co.uk/index.htm The guy I have used in the past to source MAN spares is Dave Walters on info@mandiesel.co.uk
So when are we going to get the report on the cruise itself?
With regard to the ball joints it may be worth contacting the UK MAN dealer http://www.mandiesel.co.uk/index.htm The guy I have used in the past to source MAN spares is Dave Walters on info@mandiesel.co.uk
So when are we going to get the report on the cruise itself?
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Many thanks for the update Bart. A mix of good success and some frustration. Great job to keep issues in perspective, and to enjoy your holiday��
Pinnacle
Well-Known Member
Bart
Delighted it has worked out eventually for you. Good job you are patient, practical and have the ability to deal with issues that would have made others cry.
Best to you and E from us both.
Delighted it has worked out eventually for you. Good job you are patient, practical and have the ability to deal with issues that would have made others cry.
Best to you and E from us both.
vas
Well-Known Member
good result Bart,
imho it would simply be abnormal to do all that work on the engines, turn the key and expect everything will work fine without any teething problems.
Seems they weren't that serious and a positive attitude is a must throughout this process!
looking forward to the trip report
cheers
V.
imho it would simply be abnormal to do all that work on the engines, turn the key and expect everything will work fine without any teething problems.
Seems they weren't that serious and a positive attitude is a must throughout this process!
looking forward to the trip report
cheers
V.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
+1 for good.
The love affair between Bart and BA would get my vote as the forum best...
...If it weren't that the one between Vas and Mythos can outclass anything else on this planet, that is!
AndieMac
Well-Known Member
+1 for good.
The love affair between Bart and BA would get my vote as the forum best...
...If it weren't that the one between Vas and Mythos can outclass anything else on this planet, that is!
Definitely agree with this MM, but being fellow boat owners we can also understand posting all the issues here is a form of therapy or debriefing after stressful events
BartW
Well-Known Member
thanks!
BartW
Well-Known Member
if its MAN spare parts, I'm sure Ilko will find them,
but I believe these are part of the Italian throttle controll system,
oem made for Canados.
My parts dealer in Fiumicino might find it.
work on the winter todo list.
thanks for the info.
re cruise report,
will come later (hopefully) when I am out of my
"post boating holliday bug / burn out "
:-(
;-)
BartW
Well-Known Member
but being fellow boat owners we can also understand posting all the issues here is a form of therapy or debriefing after stressful events
spot on !