One for The MED guys

[kashurst]

How do you organise this? Would we be able to do this post-Brexit or is it an EU citizen-only entitlement?

just google it. I was put on to it by local boat broker who sells a lot of boats in Spain to British ex-pats who live 365 in Spain. IF you are British and have residency in Spain, your boat has to be Spanish flagged and as skipper you have to do the Spanish skippers quals in Spanish. BUT if it's Dutch registered, then legally the boat is Dutch therefore not a Spanish problem and they no longer care who is driving
Fortunately the Dutch boat register is very broadminded and happy to help. Re Porto - loads of people do it all the time, and as per Whitelighter the Spaniards want the money as long as its suitably legal. So everyone is happy.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

What makes you think Italy will be different

I spent 3yrs with my current boat moored in Italy before moving to France 2yrs ago. Lets just say that the Italians apply their bureaucracy in a lot more relaxed way than the French. The Italians seem to be more grateful for your business than the French My berth lease in Antibes runs out in 2021 and if it all starts to get a bit difficult I'll move my boat across the border

 

[markc]

I spent 3yrs with my current boat moored in Italy before moving to France 2yrs ago. Lets just say that the Italians apply their bureaucracy in a lot more relaxed way than the French. The Italians seem to be more grateful for your business than the French My berth lease in Antibes runs out in 2021 and if it all starts to get a bit difficult I'll move my boat across the border

That was indeed my rationale, from anecdotal evidence.

 

[Portofino]

Ref your Irish point, do they have an SSR equivalent?

No in the easy to get online PayPal sense - if that’s what you mean ?
It feels like our part 1 , and all that comes with it = tonnage survey etc .

Two takes on that .
1- we will jump through what ever hoops to get a situation whereby the owners ( wife ) passport is EU and links to the flag .
2- maybe there’s some merit anyhow in a survey after [ inset time period of your choice ] I,am hiring the guy so he can kill a few birds at once .
- Placate future insurance queries?
- organise structured maintenance regime.

As far as anything else like radio exam , they say the Guinness is Dublin is nice
The Rose certainly was in Fr 2005 when I did a week long “ Permit d Mer “

Doesn’t make sense in post Bexit to soldier on with a red duster in the EU when one of us has an EU passport.

 

[Bouba]

The “ hint “ I,am picking up and sensing dates back to approx our referendum result , so past 2 years or so is basically France is bust ! Has been for a while .

It’s been cooking the books for the EU .The relative severity of the Macron reforms confirms that view .
The steep rise of the level of taxation is too little ( or too much if you are a citizen ? ) too late .
The EU,s preoccupation with GB plc has allowed Fr to get away with it , or there’s little appetite to break the unity until after Brexit .

So if we do leave and the EU don,t get the initial £39 Bn or there’s a shortfall ie no overpayments of £3Bn / month after 2020 - we suppose to stop subbing them ,then FR will be even worse hit and the FR gov will have to find that lost revenue .More so if folks keep taking to the street and forcing the Fr gov to U turn tax reforms .

So there’s maybe something coming our way not very pleasant for Brits abroad with a boat in Fr waters .

Just a hint which is what you asked .

Meanwhile across the boarder when I travel through Italy to get to the boat I need to wear a biker back protector because the N Italians keep patting me on the back wishing they were leaving ,blaming all there ills on Brussels.
There Gov is allowed to ignore the spending limits ,the IT gov have put two fingers up to Brussels .

Swiss arn,t bothered ambivalent laughing at all of us , but the weakening Euro against the Swiss Fc means it’s expensive for EU people to come to CH .This has had a knock on effect of ( Under EU reciprocal freedom of movement) there’s a 21 st century immigration problem at boarder cities like GVA and others ,of hundreds of thousands of high end “ migrants “ commuters every day taking the best top jobs from the Swiss cos it’s worth more at home to be paid in CH Fc .
The pay the EU a tariff for the freedom of movement, but it’s all one way and it’s costs them - whatch this space :encouragement:

Wife has an Irish grandfather anyhow so she currently is in the process or acquiring a EU passport .

In which case that could be our flag change if flying a red turns into a problem for the Fr and we want to stay in Fr ?

So Brexit could put too much fiscal strain on Fr and force the Fr gov to dig deeper tax wise , it’s not as if the Gillet Verts have not got enough ammo to riot .

Boats move and there’s plenty of nice places in Italy to base it .
Italians wish they were in our shoes ,well the ones I meet .
We will blend in with the Itama anyhow .

We will find a place in Tuscany near Elba if things become disagreeable in Fr as a result of Brexit .

We will disinvest sell the berth ( expires 2029 ) and the Antibes property - cash in and bugger off leave them to it and take my custom elsewhere.

Was think about this last night and I agree with Porto. The yellow jackets could change everything, the early reforms to the wealth tax are possibly going to be reversed. All taxes for the better off could rise, and French boats already are taxed annually so a rise is easy. So the conclusion is that life here could become intolerable not because we are Brits but because we have disposable income

 

[Irish Rover]

Is it likely the UK will remain a member of the EEA after Brexit? What's the situation with yachts from non EU countries who are EEA members cruising in EU waters[Norway, Iceland and Lichtenstein currently in that category]? I don't know about other countries but in Ireland a national of an EEA country has the same rights to register a yacht as an EU national.

 

[Portofino]

BUT if it's Dutch registered, then legally the boat is Dutch therefore not a Spanish problem and they no longer care who is driving

Fortunately the Dutch boat register is very broadminded and happy to help. Re Porto - loads of people do it all the time, and as per Whitelighter the Spaniards want the money as long as its suitably legal. So everyone is happy.

“Broadminded” enought to allow NONE EU to continue lurking on its reg when it’s renewal time ?

Talking after Brexit not now which is EU on EU .

Are there any none EU currently lurking on any of theses (very easily to get on member state ) state registers ?

What I meant was they may change there attitude to enforcement after Brexit irked by a collapse in there fresh produce trade with Britain post Brexit , the flames fanned by Brussels in a “ teach anybody else thinking of leaving kinda way “

Motivation on the ground by Spain to obey Brussels because they are a receiver and don,t want the receive less when Britain turns off its £ tap into the pot .
Leverage over Gib as up to now Brussels has protected U.K. plc ,or acted in unity to shut SP up .
Outside the EU it will be SP only vs U.K. plc in the Gib debate the EU gloves will come off .

The deal TM is pushing actually is good for Gib ( and our other bases like bits of CY. ) it protects them - as is .Read it Theres about 20 pages on overseas territories.
But a no deal will release SP to its own negotiating devices , which could have a knock on effect for Brit boaters in SP .

I get the shooting them selves in the tourist cash cow foot , but they will obey the 8hit that comes out of Brussels and use what ever wedges come available to drive into Gib .

 

[KINGFISHER 9]

I’m not a big slender.

Neither am I … it's probably the beer! … :encouragement:

 

[MapisM]

We will find a place in Tuscany near Elba if things become disagreeable in Fr as a result of Brexit

I would head to Italy if the French started getting tricky

My berth lease in Antibes runs out in 2021 and if it all starts to get a bit difficult I'll move my boat across the border

'Salright folks, just form an orderly queue.
In spite of all the current government efforts, the Country will live up to its migrant-friendly reputation!

 

[petem]

What an (inevitable) shambles that we even having to consider re-flagging our boats, so much for taking back control. Still, there's zero chance of 'no deal' so I'm not losing any sleep over it.

But if we did leave without a deal then my concern with re-registering to another flag would be qualifications. The Govt/EU have already announced that in the event of a 'no deal' that professional seafarer tickets won't be recognised for EU flagged vessels so it wouldn't surprise me if the same thing happened for ICC, etc. Not sure I'd like to take an ICC type exam in a foreign language.

Another concern would be the attitude that EU authorities take to UK flagged boats. I know that Mallorca has already witnessed anti-tourism protests and we also saw this summer that the Mallorcan authorities are fining boaters for anchoring in seaweed areas, so I can see negative sentiments hardening towards us. On the plus side, I guess they'll go after charter and bigger vessels before they start picking on smaller boats like ours. Fortunately, where we are on the Costa Blanca the authorities seem to be more grateful to tourists and boaters who bring money to the area.

Finally, the lack of reciprocal health care will be a real PITA for us. My family have some chronic health issues that may be prohibitively expensive to insure against. This could be a real show stopper for us.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

'Salright folks, just form an orderly queue.
In spite of all the current government efforts, the Country will live up to its migrant-friendly reputation!

You might mind thousands of British boaters descending on CF. Hamble-sur-Med

 

[jrudge]

I am not sure why there is concern over the UK flag.

The med is full of flags from all sorts of places - some of which I have never heard of and a good percentage a non EU.

Most of us will have a boat that is VAT paid ( most not all ...) so VAT was paid in the EU when we were members. That is a fact and wont change. If we are no longer members who knows - but in the same way accession states had assets deemed vat paid, I cant really see this being reversed.

Vessels are allowed temp importation for 18 months without payment of VAT, but I cant really see then how changing to an EU flag helps - as they ask for VAT proof - which will be when we were members - so not much has changed from a UK flag.

 

[petem]

You might mind thousands of British boaters descending on CF. Hamble-sur-Med

Remind me Mike, do they have the essential for UK flagged boat - pontoons, pints, at least one Curry house, a Chinese and a variety of places where you can get a decent Full English (and that means proper English sausages and smoked streaky back bacon, none of that foreign rubbish).

 

[MapisM]

You might mind thousands of British boaters descending on CF

On second thought - also in reply to petem - I'm afraid they'd better look elsewhere for curry, Chinese stuff, English sausages and bacon.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Most of us will have a boat that is VAT paid ( most not all ...) so VAT was paid in the EU when we were members. That is a fact and wont change. If we are no longer members who knows - but in the same way accession states had assets deemed vat paid, I cant really see this being reversed.

Vessels are allowed temp importation for 18 months without payment of VAT, but I cant really see then how changing to an EU flag helps - as they ask for VAT proof - which will be when we were members - so not much has changed from a UK flag.

No I can't see the pre Brexit VAT status of boats being treated any differently either but we are not a newly accessed EU country but a country that is exiting the EU so there could be a distinct lack of goodwill around towards UK flagged boats especially in a no deal situation. I was one of the unfortunate boat owners who was caught by the matriculation tax purge in Majorca in 2008 and believe me, the local tax authorities just targeted UK and German flagged boats rather than other EU nationals. Why, your guess is as good as mine but quite obviously Brits and Germans were probably viewed as being the most likely cash cows. In the end of course the matriculation tax purge was ruled unlawful by the EU. We Brits will have no such protection in the future and we will be sitting ducks for any crackpot tax purge dreamt up by cash hungry EU regions or countries. I'm not saying that is likely to happen, just that Brexit increases the risk that it might happen

 

[TonyR123]

I am not too concerned. Mooring paid until 2031 - any extra charges the port asks for will be for everyone. I also paid VAT in Spain (21%) so no issues there either.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Remind me Mike, do they have the essential for UK flagged boat - pontoons, pints, at least one Curry house, a Chinese and a variety of places where you can get a decent Full English (and that means proper English sausages and smoked streaky back bacon, none of that foreign rubbish).

Raw tuna starter, grilled tuna main course and tuna ice cream to finish, all washed down with some dodgy wine you never heard of. You'll love it, Pete

 

[MapisM]

In the end of course the matriculation tax purge was ruled unlawful by the EU.

Aha, I missed that.
Out of curiosity, were you refunded, or (as I would tend to guess) you should have gone through legal hassles which were just not worth the time and effort, so eventually they kept what they fetched regardless of EU ruling?

 

[petem]

Raw tuna starter, grilled tuna main course and tuna ice cream to finish, all washed down with some dodgy wine you never heard of. You'll love it, Pete

Providing there's chips with it I'm happy.

Remind me, can you still get Prosecco in Italy or has it all been exported to the UK?

 

[Whitelighter]

On second thought - also in reply to petem - I'm afraid they'd better look elsewhere for curry, Chinese stuff, English sausages and bacon.

Sounds ideal in that case