One for the deck saloon enthusiasts ?

[dunedin]

Well who says there are no modern deck saloon yachts these days - how about a (Hanse) Moody 41 DS? Moody 41DS review: Could this model win you over to the decksaloon lifestyle?

Clearly aimed at a specific market, and borrowing ideas from the (increasingly popular) multihulls and mobos. Like it’s near neighbour geographically, the Sirius DS, it seems to have lots of thought for its market and good attention to detail.
But equally, like Sirius, Amel etc perhaps the best way to view it is from inside looking out over your surroundings

Not for me, but for the deck saloon enthusiasts over to you ........

PS. As ever, the opinions which will really matter to the builders are those of people with at least €500k cash ready to spend on a new boat

 

[RJJ]

Well who says there are no modern deck saloon yachts these days - how about a (Hanse) Moody 41 DS? Moody 41DS review: Could this model win you over to the decksaloon lifestyle?

Clearly aimed at a specific market, and borrowing ideas from the (increasingly popular) multihulls and mobos. Like it’s near neighbour geographically, the Sirius DS, it seems to have lots of thought for its market and good attention to detail.
But equally, like Sirius, Amel etc perhaps the best way to view it is from inside looking out over your surroundings

Not for me, but for the deck saloon enthusiasts over to you ........

PS. As ever, the opinions which will really matter to the builders are those of people with at least €500k cash ready to spend on a new boat

I trotted around one of these (whatever's the next size up) at SIBS in 2019. Not my cup of tea.

The worst, for me, was visibility. I couldn't begin to imagine coming bows-first into a pontoon. IIRC they have some camera thingy to help. It's as they describe it in the article, and the photo is telling - you can't see the bows from standing; your best vis is by sitting down and looking through the windows. That doesn't sound fun coming out of an estuary on a busy Saturday with smaller boats, paddleboards etc around.

The side deck walkways are interesting but you can't dangle your legs over the side.

"windage would inevitably be a factor in a breeze" - seems an understatement.

Give me the Wauquiez listed as an alternative for only 60k more.

 

[fredrussell]

It looks to me like the bastard child of a mobo and a sailing boat.

 

[dunedin]

It looks to me like the bastard child of a mobo and a sailing boat.

I think the designer would prefer it to be described as cross fertilisation between modern motorboats and sailing yachts - but unless they were married, I guess that is pretty much the same thing

 

[Laminar Flow]

There is a very real distinction between a deck salon and a wheelhouse. I have sailed on both and I have sailed without; long distance cruising/ocean cruising and living aboard.

In my experience a decksalon is not very suitable for inside steering, but for living aboard I do appreciate to be able to see where I am while having breakfast.

Unless the boat has a much reduced lateral area and is very light, I think that the issue of windage due to superstructure is highly overrated. At a height of 3m above sea level the force is a third less than what it is at the mast top. A significant part of which is caused by the rig.
We, see avatar, have, in spite of an aircraft carrier like freeboard and that full greenhouse on top, never had too much issue with windage while docking. Unlike many, we do not have a bow, never mind a stern thruster. I've had folk lecture me about windage, only to then show me their own boat with a complete canvas cockpit enclosure.

We can discuss esthetics until the cows come home. There are things about the looks of our tub that I do not find overly pleasing either, but once you're onboard you can't really see them and, for the record, I'd rather be watching the rain from the inside of our wheelhouse/salon than sitting outside in it or sheltering in a cave.
I do think that designers struggle with the esthetics of decksalons and wheelhouses. Mostly, because they are trying to hide them, like some embarrassing family secret, which is counterproductive to their purpose as a navigation and living centre with a view. Part of this is caused by the stigma that surrounds the traditional, overweight and underrigged motorsailer; I doubt very much, however, that in cruising terms someone would be able to quantify the performance hit one would have to take with a Moody DS41 over a decksalon-less sistership.

 

[dom]

I trotted around one of these (whatever's the next size up) at SIBS in 2019. Not my cup of tea.

The worst, for me, was visibility. I couldn't begin to imagine coming bows-first into a pontoon. IIRC they have some camera thingy to help. It's as they describe it in the article, and the photo is telling - you can't see the bows from standing; your best vis is by sitting down and looking through the windows. That doesn't sound fun coming out of an estuary on a busy Saturday with smaller boats, paddleboards etc around.

The side deck walkways are interesting but you can't dangle your legs over the side.

"windage would inevitably be a factor in a breeze" - seems an understatement.

Give me the Wauquiez listed as an alternative for only 60k more.

I sailed a 45' one of these. Good boat but as you say vis terrible when raining and looking through the DS is impaired. One ends up sitting in all sorts of awkward positions and the DS is too high for an average height (5'10") bloke to look over. Even up there on that somewhat precarious quarterdeck where a brass telescope might be nice! Meanwhile people 'down' in the cockpit have no unobstructed view.

Re windage, berthing with a bowthruster is not that bad. That said, where windage really hurts all of these DS and Pilothouse boats is going to windward, especially in a blow as windage increases with the square of windspeed while drive becomes limited by the boatspec.

Although to be fair, I don't think that's what these boats are really built for. That single level, apartment-style living would however be great for something - I'm just not quite sure what it is yet. Well, if pushed, it would be fab as a place to moor up close a kid's university as a place to live.

Loads of other such uses too, it's very nice, just different.

 

[mjcoon]

I thought the comment by the reviewer on the prospect of getting "green water" over the windward bow and having it run down the gutter side deck, with no scuppers, to discharge into the cockpit could cause "surprise" was masterly. There's no bridge deck, so whether any such water goes downstairs or out of the transom could depend on whether the yacht is going up a swell or down...
(I was referring to the YM review BTW, not the cited YW review, though the wording is almost exactly the same, bar mention of "wet feet"!)

 

[Moodysailor]

I must confess bias here - we have one of the earliest versions of this, the Moody Carbineer 42. Built 1971 she is dated by modern standards, but the deckhouse is something that I now would have to be very, very hard pressed to trade.

I doubt many cruising sailors actually ever sail their vessel that close to their potential to ever notice the difference between a DS and non-DS version, and as mentioned by @Laminar Flow the windage is a non-issue in real terms. We get far more from the rig than the hard-top, and the lighter "conventional" boats have a much harder time than us in tricky conditions in our marina.

I get the aesthetics argument - at the end of the day if we all liked the same things then life would be boring. But putting aside the purist mentality, there is a huge amount of benefit to a DS, especially in Northern Europe/UK climates, in our opinion.

There are disadvantages, but all boats have those and like all the others - if you like the rest enough, you put up with the "quirks".

I would have one, anyone got a spare £350k.....

 

[Bobc]

I really like these, especially the 45. The 54 is amazing but looks a bit of a handful.

It's probably the only thing I've seen in the last few years that I would actually consider chopping my current boat in for.

I'm encouraged that most of you don't like it, as hopefully that means they'll be cheap in a few years time, and I can buy one.

 

[dom]

I really like these, especially the 45. The 54 is amazing but looks a bit of a handful.

It's probably the only thing I've seen in the last few years that I would actually consider chopping my current boat in for.

I'm encouraged that most of you don't like it, as hopefully that means they'll be cheap in a few years time, and I can buy one.

I agree. Personally, I think this type of boat gets better and better as one approaches the 55' mark: looks, sailing, ergonomics, etc.

 

[dankilb]

Very well equipped down below, but from the pics it looks like it could feel somewhat pokey for a DS of that size. Not much more space than, say, a Westerly Riviera... I can’t imagine ‘pottering about’ down below on a rainy day, especially with two. Our 42’ (non-DS) Jeanneau seems like it offers more ‘space’ (literally floor space, passing places, headroom). By sticking a washing machine in implies ‘liveaboard’, but I’m not sure I could put up with months at a time... guess that’s where the bigger models come in?

 

[dunedin]

I thought the comment by the reviewer on the prospect of getting "green water" over the windward bow and having it run down the gutter side deck, with no scuppers, to discharge into the cockpit could cause "surprise" was masterly. There's no bridge deck, so whether any such water goes downstairs or out of the transom could depend on whether the yacht is going up a swell or down...
(I was referring to the YM review BTW, not the cited YW review, though the wording is almost exactly the same, bar mention of "wet feet"!)

Yes, that did seem to be a serious omission on a boat with zero “bridge deck” to stop any water entering the main cabin - and presumably then continuing on and down the steps into the bow and stern cabins too.
Any breach of the sliding doors due to a large wave from astern at sea could be catastrophic. But I guess that is not it’s target market, any more than for most similar styled motor yachts.

 

[ashtead]

I’m sure there must be a market out there but I just wonder if it works at 41 ft as opposed to the 45 ft version. The 45 has successfully crossed the Atlantic and I’m sure the smaller 41 would do likewise but for trips around south coast or say Normandy /Brittany not certain it would be that handy . Would quite like one though if round the med kitted out with the genset,water maker,air con etc [lus davits and panels and parked up in say Trogir for a couple of weeks on charter. They are not a mass market boat though so I would be surprised if so far more than say50 of the 45footers have been solved even by now. If I hand the desire for a DS I’m sure a secondhand 45 might have the edge as I just feel at 41 might be a shade small but to be fair I’ve only been on the 45ft. It also a large premium to pay compared to the 41ac moody so I’m not certain many would be tempted to move up. Once you start puttiNg down that much cash for a new boat of 12metres probably quite a hard choice

 

[Laminar Flow]

Yes, that did seem to be a serious omission on a boat with zero “bridge deck” to stop any water entering the main cabin - and presumably then continuing on and down the steps into the bow and stern cabins too.
Any breach of the sliding doors due to a large wave from astern at sea could be catastrophic. But I guess that is not it’s target market, any more than for most similar styled motor yachts.

Interesting point. I used to be a bit worried about the level entry wheelhouse/cockpit arrangement on our CW 32 in regards to flooding should we ever ship a greeny as we only have a 4" sill. After ten plus years of sailing her in winds up to a F9 and experiencing 4-5m breaking seas in the Baltic, I'm now quite relaxed about it; we have never took on more than a spoon full of water into the cockpit, a bit of spray at best. She is without doubt the driest boat I've ever sailed on, actually, and that includes vessels over 50'.

Much fuss is made about the seaworthiness, especially that of decksalon and pilothouse yachts, mostly this is based on imagined, and not to say, imaginary survival conditions in a southern ocean.
The statistic reality is this: 95% of all recreational sailing is done in winds less than a F6; of this, 80% is done in winds below a F5.

As with my own brand: most of those that sing on the loudest about the seaworthiness of a certain type have only ever been out in a F6 or less ...

 

[Wansworth]

A tortilla sailing boat,sheltered waters and at best tied up to a marina berth perfect for the sheltered reaching winds of the Spanish rias?

 

[dom]

Yes, that did seem to be a serious omission on a boat with zero “bridge deck” to stop any water entering the main cabin - and presumably then continuing on and down the steps into the bow and stern cabins too.
Any breach of the sliding doors due to a large wave from astern at sea could be catastrophic. But I guess that is not it’s target market, any more than for most similar styled motor yachts.

It does seem like an omission, but FWIW I sailed one on a bumpy day and the water sort of slides right down along the sides and off. And if it's really wet one can just close the door.

I think it's fine for what the boat is intended as that whole set-up would feel a bit exposed far offshore where I'd worry about green water stoving in the door or something. But I really didn't sense that this is what this boat is all about. And being at anchor on a nice day is fantastic, like being a luxurious bright apartment being parachuted down into a wild location with panoramic views all round. For that, this boat has to get an A* marks!

But once again, I think it all works better on the bigger ones.

 

[ashtead]

A tortilla sailing boat,sheltered waters and at best tied up to a marina berth perfect for the sheltered reaching winds of the Spanish rias?

I suspect anywhere in the Med

 

[WoodyP]

Here's another one of different parentage. Crossed Biscay in it during Storm Miguel. Very nice.

 

[Laminar Flow]

I sailed a 45' one of these. Good boat but as you say vis terrible when raining and looking through the DS is impaired. One ends up sitting in all sorts of awkward positions and the DS is too high for an average height (5'10") bloke to look over. Even up there on that somewhat precarious quarterdeck where a brass telescope might be nice! Meanwhile people 'down' in the cockpit have no unobstructed view.

Re windage, berthing with a bowthruster is not that bad. That said, where windage really hurts all of these DS and Pilothouse boats is going to windward, especially in a blow as windage increases with the square of windspeed while drive becomes limited by the boatspec.

Although to be fair, I don't think that's what these boats are really built for. That single level, apartment-style living would however be great for something - I'm just not quite sure what it is yet. Well, if pushed, it would be fab as a place to moor up close a kid's university as a place to live.

Loads of other such uses too, it's very nice, just different.

Do you have any indication what the difference in performance would be, between a DS and the regular model, in minutes over an olympic course, this being a standard assessment for performance?

 

[Sandy]

Well who says there are no modern deck saloon yachts these days - how about a (Hanse) Moody 41 DS? Moody 41DS review: Could this model win you over to the decksaloon lifestyle?

I've seen skips with more function designed into them.

As many have said, it is a floating cottage that might move on a lovely sunny day to the wee bay over there.