One for the deck saloon enthusiasts ?

[dunedin]

I've seen skips with more function designed into them.

As many have said, it is a floating cottage that might move on a lovely sunny day to the wee bay over there.

Not necessarily the boat I would buy, but in the market for new £500k cruisers, the fastest growth is amongst cruising catamarans, and few of them look any more elegant than this Hanse/Moody 41.
And it is unarguable that on anchor or sailing, the views out are massively better than from deep down in an old style boat. And it looks to sail decently well also, well suited to the boating most people actually want to do.

As ever, it is the views of the people actually spending the cash on new boats that will drive sales.

 

[newtothis]

And it is unarguable that on anchor or sailing, the views out are massively better than from deep down in an old style boat. And it looks to sail decently well also, well suited to the boating most people actually want to do.

It is a truth universally acknowledged, that anyone who wants to simply enjoy sailing has no right to simply enjoy sailing and should be condemned to a 50-year-old 22 ft bilge keeler until they are sufficiently re-educated.

 

[Bobc]

Here's another one of different parentage. Crossed Biscay in it during Storm Miguel. Very nice.

Doesn't do it for me I'm afraid. I actually like the "un-traditionalness" (if that's a word) of the Moody.

 

[Tranona]

The Regina is a product of its environment and perfect for making the most out of the compressed sailing season in the Baltic. Beautifully made with lovely features like double glazed windows. They brought a 38 over to Southampton a few years ago. The big downside for me as a result of cramming all that woody accommodation in the aft end of a relatively narrow hull was a tiny totally unergonomic cockpit. Best not to look at the price. I think they sold one in the UK and when it came on the used market took over 2 years to sell at inevitably a much reduced price (but still a lot of money).

 

[Tradewinds]

The Regina is a product of its environment and perfect for making the most out of the compressed sailing season in the Baltic. Beautifully made with lovely features like double glazed windows. They brought a 38 over to Southampton a few years ago. The big downside for me as a result of cramming all that woody accommodation in the aft end of a relatively narrow hull was a tiny totally unergonomic cockpit. Best not to look at the price. I think they sold one in the UK and when it came on the used market took over 2 years to sell at inevitably a much reduced price (but still a lot of money).

One for sale here
1999 Regina Regina 43 Levington, United Kingdom - Clarke and Carter

 

[WoodyP]

Regina are now part of Sweden Yacht group/CR Yachts. Quality costs, and they aren't built on a production line. I only crew, but I saw her in build and the attention to detail and customer care was obvious.

 

[Sandy]

As ever, it is the views of the people actually spending the cash on new boats that will drive sales.

Indeed, my own choice, if I had that sort of cash would be a Boreal 47. The original version as they have totally messed up the "47.2" with twin wheels, but that is an expedition boat and not to everybody's taste.

 

[Tranona]

One for sale here
1999 Regina Regina 43 Levington, United Kingdom - Clarke and Carter

That may well be the only one of its type in the UK. Note it is one owner. If I remember rightly when I saw the 38 in about 2008 they were building around 10 boats a year of all sizes and were even more expensive than Nauticats. Very much a niche market. BTW the builders were originally Vindo which had some success with their 32 and 35 footers in the UK in the 70s and 80s when the premium for Scandinavian boats was smaller than it is today.

 

[Sailfree]

Do you have any indication what the difference in performance would be, between a DS and the regular model, in minutes over an olympic course, this being a standard assessment for performance?

Firstly the Moody.

The advantage of DS is that they are airy and have good views from inside - the opposite of dim and pokey that some "Classic" yachts can be. One extra benefit I did not expect was the number of female sailors who said they usually felt seasick on boats but the bigger portholes/windows enabled them to see more (horizon?) and they did not feel seasick. Men didn't comment but real men never get seasick!! I do occasionally!!

We have a more conventional DS (you go down companionway steps to get to saloon) and my wife always wants an uncluttered view so spray hood must be down when sailing. She would complain about the distraction of people inside the cabin if in her line of sight or if there was any spray on the cabin forward windows.

We first had 2 conventional classic Yachts 36' then a 38'. Then when we heard Jeanneau DS was going out of production in 2005 we decided to immediately order one from the last batch (IIRC they manufactured them in batches of 7 - maximised internal timber sheet usage? We had always admired the internal layout of the Jeanneau 43DS at boat shows but thought 43' was too big to start with straight from Dinghy racing and 1 Greek charter!

WRT relative performance, in the Jeanneau case, they built both the 40' and the 43' in 3 versions - Sunfast:- taller mast, bigger sail area and deeper keel (IIRC9'draught), Classic:- same hull and conventional rig, Deck Saloon :- of which 95% was ordered with the smaller sail area for the in mast furling. All 3 versions of the yacht had identical hull moulding only the deck (for the DS) and internals change. So you could order any of the 3 versions with 2 cabins (owners version) or 3 or 4 cabins. The 4 cabin versions were popular on the charter market for max. bums on seats.

Yachting Monthly did simultaneous tests on all three versions of 40's for the same issue and then repeated this in another issue for the 43's. In both tests the Sun Fast outperformed the others but they were surprised that the DS in both the 40' and 43' with no sail battens, in mast furling and smaller sail area outperformed the classic. After consideration they decided it was the far superior weight distribution with the water and diesel tanks being able to sit right over the keel due to the raised floor. I ordered our DS with conventional mast and fully battened main so we had it all ways over the Classic but could not out sail the Sunfast version.

During this production run 1997 to 2005? Jeanneau obviously decided that they were competing with themselves as the DS was only slightly dearer than the similar Classic, so for next range they only made the DS in an owners version with 2 cabins and either added or chopped 1' off the length so the boats in the same range could not be compared on performance.

I am sure the Moody being designed so recently will perform well but cant comment how it sails against a conventional classic yacht with similar hull shape and I assume comparable sail areas , whether a Deck Saloon has in mast furling (without battens) but better weight distribution will no doubt be factors.

We still have our 43' DS but now berthed in Nazare. The 2 forward cabins (1 double and 1 with bunk beds) can be easily rearranged into 1 master cabin with its own heads but we have never done it using the bunk cabin as a spares/tool room. We never thought we would live on the 43' but after selling our apartment in Nazare to build a big house to our own design is seemed easier to move onto the boat for the 6months rather than rent. Having its own shower cubical was great as during the covid lockdowns in Portugal we have not needed to use the Marina Facilities at all and 43' is adequate and comfortable as a live aboard. Which is good as with Covid delays build took a further 12months! Many years ago I did get a deep box sprung mattress for our cabin though and had the Saloon upholstery recovered in a cream coloured leather. However I digress hope my comments help other to look on a Deck Saloon Yacht as potentially a capable sailing boat and not just a poor man's MoBo.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Firstly the Moody.

The advantage of DS is that they are airy and have good views from inside - the opposite of dim and pokey that some "Classic" yachts can be. One extra benefit I did not expect was the number of female sailors who said they usually felt seasick on boats but the bigger portholes/windows enabled them to see more (horizon?) and they did not feel seasick. Men didn't comment but real men never get seasick!! I do occasionally!!

We have a more conventional DS (you go down companionway steps to get to saloon) and my wife always wants an uncluttered view so spray hood must be down when sailing. She would complain about the distraction of people inside the cabin if in her line of sight.

We had 2 conventional classic Yachts 36' then a 38'. Then when we heard Jeanneau DS was going out of production in 2005 we decided to immediately order one from the last batch (IIRC they manufactured them in batches of 7 - maximised internal timber sheet usage?

WRT relative performance in the Jeanneau case they built both the 40 and the 43 in 3 versions - Sunfast:- taller mast, bigger sail area and deeper keel (IIRC9'draught), Classic:- same hull and conventional rig, Deck Saloon :- of which 95% was ordered with the smaller sail area for the in mast furling. All 3 versions of the yacht had identical hull moulding only the deck (for the DS) and internals change. So you could order any of the 3 versions with 2 cabins (owners version) or 3 or 4 cabins. The 4 cabin versions were popular on the charter market for max. bums on seats.

Yachting Monthly did tests on all three types of 40's at the same time/issue and then repeated the same for the 43's. In both tests the Sun Fast outperformed the others but they were surprised that the DS with no sail battens, in mast furling and smaller sail are outperformed the classic. After consideration they decided it was the better weight distribution with the water and diesel tanks sitting right over the keel due to the raised floor. I ordered our DS with conventional mast and fully battened main so we had it all ways over the Classic but could not outsail the Sunfast version.

During this production run 1997 to 2005? Jeanneau obviously decided that they were competing with themselves as the DS was only slightly dearer than the Classic so for next range they only mafde the DS in an owners version with 2 cabins and either added or chopped 1' off the length so the boats in the same range could not be compared on performanced.

I am sure the Moody being design built so recently but cant comment how it sails against a conventional classic yacht - I assume comparable sail areas , whether in mast furling without battens and weight distribution would no doubt be factors.

We still have our 43' DS but now berthed in Nazare. The 2 forward cabins (1 double and 1 with bunk beds) can be easily rearranged into 1 master cabin with its own heads but we have never done it using the bunk cabin as a spares/tool room. We never thought we would live on the 43' but after selling our apartment in Nazare to build a big house to our own design is seemed easier to move onto the boat for the 6months rather than rent. Having its own shower cubical was great as during the covid lockdowns in Portugal we have not needed to use the Marina Facilities at all and 43' is adequate and comfortable as a live aboard. Many years ago i did get a deep box sprung mattress for our cabin though. However I digress hope my comment help other to look on DS as a good sailing boat and not just a copy MoBo.

Thank you for your detailed and in-depth reply.
You confirm my suspicion that in real life terms the difference in performance is marginal while the benefits to liveaboard comfort are substantial.

 

[Wansworth]

Its horses for courses,coastal cruisers can have walk through one level cockpits with big picture windows but going offshore would require a more seamanlike design,a wheelhouse sticking up can only add buoyancy in a knockdown if it’s strong.

 

[Sailfree]

Its horses for courses,coastal cruisers can have walk through one level cockpits with big picture windows but going offshore would require a more seamanlike design,a wheelhouse sticking up can only add buoyancy in a knockdown if it’s strong.

If Moody uses the raised floor of a DS to put the water and diesel tanks over the keel (as in the Jeanneau) it would be more stiffer in a blow and I would anticipate a slightly better AVS. Frankly I dont think people buy DS's for regular rough weather I would buy a long keel boat for that like an Island Packet.

I have done one 80ml very rough channel crossing in my 43'DS. I closed everything and passengers were below, I was strapped in at the helm and sailed close hauled all the way mostly F7. Waves were running over the saloon windows. Not pleasant but boat could handle it - its the people who usually can't. My lesson learnt never sail to a timetable - weather forecast was worse for the Sunday and 3 of us had work on the Monday. If again I would have caught the ferry but I sail for pleasure!

 

[dunedin]

Thank you for your detailed and in-depth reply.
You confirm my suspicion that in real life terms the difference in performance is marginal while the benefits to liveaboard comfort are substantial.

I suspect that is indeed true where boats are using identical hulls and very similar rigs (though the Janneau “deck saloon” is much lower than many DS yachts, and massively lower than a pilothouse).
The main difference is presumably where the boats have compromised underwater shape, or rig size.

 

[Wansworth]

Was out in an incape fifty foot mfv type,just in the Solent on a windy day coming back from Yarmouth to the Hamble,boy o boy you certainly had to hold on as getting thrown froone side of the wheelhouse to the other was not a good idea?

 

[ashtead]

The only comment I would add is the sail area is smaller than a comparable 41ac but weight is greater. I suspect the DS motors well and sails better in a blow maybe ?

 

[Laminar Flow]

Was out in an incape fifty foot mfv type,just in the Solent on a windy day coming back from Yarmouth to the Hamble,boy o boy you certainly had to hold on as getting thrown froone side of the wheelhouse to the other was not a good idea?

I would tend to agree, to a point, that whoever imagined that a MFV would make a fine yacht hadn't really thought it all the way trough.

However, there is absolutely no comparison between a DS and a wheelhouse as a navigation centre in terms of allround visibility and practicality. Having sailed both extensively, I should say, it is not even close.

From the postings in this thread I have not yet seen a clear comparison between similar boats, DS and non DS, with the same SA/Displ. ratio. In any case, the only difference would be, if it were at all quantifiable, to windward.

I sail one of these, as Dunedin put it, compromised underwater shapes. That is not all, my boat also has a performance compromising multi-masted rig and a wheelhouse with a drag coefficient somewhere between that of a barn and an aircraft hangar.

In spite of this she does go to windward and does it well enough to keep me fairly happy. How does she compare to others? In the Isselmeer we had the opportunity to spar with an Ege-Yat 35 decksalon on a ten mile passage from Stavoren to Medemblick. Closehauled, in the short steep chop of the Isselmeer, they beat us by half a mile; in other words, they were 5% quicker than us in a F4-5 to weather.
The next day, on another 10 mile jaunt from Medemblick to Enkhuizen we found ourselves in the same company again. Now, a reach/broad reach in a F5 gusting 6; it was not even a contest. She arrived at least half an hour after us in Enkhuizen. Back then, before I made the changes to her rig, we had a SA/Displ. ratio of about 12, now it is 17.8

It is not that we are superfast, or as I have come to understand: Anderson 22 quick, but that the margins are, in cruising terms and for the type of passage sailing we do, paper-thin. Around the cans we would still be clearing the tea dishes on the way to the starting line by the time the rest of the fleet got back to base. But, give us open water and a place to go to (preferably not to windward) and she will reward us with very respectable passage times. She may not be stellar to weather, but I'll not warrant any complaints about her reaching and running ability; it is a compromise, one I am quite happy to make for the sake of her extraordinary creature comforts in a 31' package.

I strongly suspect that the compromises other DS have made, given a decent and comparable SA/Disp. ratio and a somewhat more efficient hull, are considerable less noticeable or even relevant.

 

[Moodysailor]

I would tend to agree, to a point, that whoever imagined that a MFV would make a fine yacht hadn't really thought it all the way trough.

However, there is absolutely no comparison between a DS and a wheelhouse as a navigation centre in terms of allround visibility and practicality. Having sailed both extensively, I should say, it is not even close.

From the postings in this thread I have not yet seen a clear comparison between similar boats, DS and non DS, with the same SA/Displ. ratio. In any case, the only difference would be, if it were at all quantifiable, to windward.

I sail one of these, as Dunedin put it, compromised underwater shapes. That is not all, my boat also has a performance compromising multi-masted rig and a wheelhouse with a drag coefficient somewhere between that of a barn and an aircraft hangar.

In spite of this she does go to windward and does it well enough to keep me fairly happy. How does she compare to others? In the Isselmeer we had the opportunity to spar with an Ege-Yat 35 decksalon on a ten mile passage from Stavoren to Medemblick. Closehauled, in the short steep chop of the Isselmeer, they beat us by half a mile; in other words, they were 5% quicker than us in a F4-5 to weather.
The next day, on another 10 mile jaunt from Medemblick to Enkhuizen we found ourselves in the same company again. Now, a reach/broad reach in a F5 gusting 6; it was not even a contest. She arrived at least half an hour after us in Enkhuizen. Back then, before I made the changes to her rig, we had a SA/Displ. ratio of about 12, now it is 17.8

It is not that we are superfast, or as I have come to understand: Anderson 22 quick, but that the margins are, in cruising terms and for the type of passage sailing we do, paper-thin. Around the cans we would still be clearing the tea dishes on the way to the starting line by the time the rest of the fleet got back to base. But, give us open water and a place to go to (preferably not to windward) and she will reward us with very respectable passage times. She may not be stellar to weather, but I'll not warrant any complaints about her reaching and running ability; it is a compromise, one I am quite happy to make for the sake of her extraordinary creature comforts in a 31' package.

I strongly suspect that the compromises other DS have made, given a decent and comparable SA/Disp. ratio and a somewhat more efficient hull, are considerable less noticeable or even relevant.

This is very interesting, and something we also notice with our Carbineer. The combination of a fuller hull and ketch rig gives us tons of sail options, and she is an immensely powerful boat - just doesn't get phased or stalled by the short waves typical of UK coastal sailing and we don't need to constantly adjust sail when a gust comes along.
I like a good "round the cans" yacht, but for cruising I prefer something that doesn't require constant attention or becomes a completely different beast if the wind pipes up 5kts!

It's also incredibly civilized, but sometimes we feel a bit smug - waving at others whilst we are still in our dry gear and they are wrapped up in full oilies is one of the great virtues of not just a DS, but a kind sea-boat. With a DS though, you can do it in a t-shirt from inside

 

[KompetentKrew]

Sorry to be off-topic, but what kind of foresail is this, please?

It's not just a coloured genoa, as the genoa is shown as white in another pic.

But I didn't know that cruising chutes could be used with the mainsail up, or so sheeted in.

Is it a gennaker?

 

[ashtead]

It’s a very expensive one if supplied by Moody even if elvstrom mass market stuff -given the weight and mast height it would need all that to move in light airs as the standard sail area is quite modest really. I assume a cruising chute on say a harken fuller or it might be rigged on the forward furler maybe in place of the standard Genoa for Purposes of drone shots.

 

[ashtead]

Page 25 of the brochure shows it’s a genaker attached forward of the outer furled- other colours are available though