Onboard Defibrillator

[Irish Rover]

I've spent the last week or so at the Mayo Clinic with my son who was having open heart surgery. I myself had a minor heart attack 9 years ago and I have 1 stent. As you might imagine there has been a lot of talk about the risk of cardiac arrest and I got a strong recommendation for a relatively cheap idiot proof personal defibrillator which I've just ordered and plan to carry on the boat. Here's a link for anyone who may be interested.

https://americanaed.com/aed-solutio...l2xW7b2JsuEJU93F3tToZI4MFhW0SjGRoCyn0QAvD_BwE

 

[PilotWolf]

I’m sure those more qualified than me as an old paramedic will be along but a few thoughts…

What training are you getting?
What are you doing about servicing?
Do the potential crew have CPR training?
What are you planning on doing if a defibrillation is successful - and even in professional hands they’re not as good outcomes as on TV. (In 15 years as a paramedic I can count on one hand how many lived to return to a near normal life. I lost count of how many I attended, but bare in mind most were a while before we got there.)
Most cardiac arrests are successful due to supporting drugs.
Some arrests are not able to benefit from defibrillation.

Not trying to pee on your parade but they are things that need to be considered.

W.

 

[john_morris_uk]

If you want a defibrillator get one off eBay. eg Zoll AED Plus Defibrillator. Pads in date until 2026. Never used + Case + Extras | eBay

Lots of building sites exhibitions etc need to have one and they are sold off afterwards. (Tip from my last first aid course).

 

[Stemar]

Things have improved over PW's experience, but even if defibrillation works, being hours or days from serious medical assistance means it's unlikely to change much. It buys you time, but not that much. It's more likely to be useful in Lake Solent than mid-Atlantic. Having said that, where assistance is available quickly, it boosts the survival rate of a cardiac arrest from 10% to 57% to discharge from hospital (LAS figures)

As for training, CPR - definitely. No one should go out of their house - or into it for that matter - without knowing how to do it. It's the single thing that's most likely to save a life. These days, CPR training is very likely to include defib training but, while familiarity with a defib is obviously useful, turn it on and it'll tell you what to do. The automatic ones are as idiot-proof as it's possible to make them.

 

[Sandy]

Only useful if you can get airlifted to hospital very quickly, which might limit your sailing range.

 

[prv]

As for training, CPR - definitely. No one should go out of their house - or into it for that matter - without knowing how to do it. It's the single thing that's most likely to save a life. These days, CPR training is very likely to include defib training but, while familiarity with a defib is obviously useful, turn it on and it'll tell you what to do. The automatic ones are as idiot-proof as it's possible to make them.

I did the four-day first aid at work course a couple of months ago; it had a heavy emphasis on CPR and within that a lot of emphasis on AEDs, using training models with a remote that allowed the instructor to simulate different behaviour. As you say, nobody should hold back from using one because of lack of training - they have decent instructions and won‘t activate if not needed - but the course certainly helps.

The instructor on our course (a Coastguard helicopter paramedic) reckoned that CPR without an AED was mostly to make you feel better about having done everything you could when the patient inevitably dies, whereas with an AED (and an ambulance or helicopter to take over) you had a reasonable chance of them surviving.

Pete

 

[johnalison]

Not being in the situation of IR, I can't easily think what my feelings would be about going offshore with a heart condition. Following what others have said, the contribution of a defibrillator to one's chances of survival must be pretty small, but if having one helps them to feel better about continuing to sail then it would be worthwhile. In my view, it largely comes down to statistics. What proportion of one's time is spent sailing? Barring accidental stress, this should tell you what the chances are of having an health emergency on passage (or during any other activity ).

 

[Graham376]

Not being in the situation of IR, I can't easily think what my feelings would be about going offshore with a heart condition.

We have several friends who still sail offshore after bypass ops and one who's had a couple of minor strokes. Lets face it many of us are at an age where a heart attack or stroke are likely events so why worry?

 

[mjcoon]

I haad open heart surgery a handful of years ago, but for a valve repair. So I was told that my arteries were "pristine". (From which I gather that my chances of a heart attack are no more than anyone else's, especially if they have not had the cardiology!). A few years after that I was given a pacemaker at short notice. I gathered that there are two types: I have the type that does not have defib capability and is regarded by DVLA as much less of a risk...

 

[Stemar]

I haad open heart surgery a handful of years ago, but for a valve repair.

Likewise. I also take medication for hypertension and high cholesterol. I had no ambition to cross the Atlantic beforehand, I just looked at the cost of health insurance for a week in the USA - quotes averaged a couple of thousand, so the algorithms must think I have, as someone put it, one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel, so the US can go forth but, please God, not multiply. I won't be going there.

Having said that, I feel fine, and am reasonably fit, so a cross channel jaunt and a month or two in the French canals doesn't scare me.

 

[westhinder]

I have crewed across the Atlantic on an expedition yacht which had an AED on board. The owner is a retired head of an A&E departement and is pretty certain it can make a difference. There was also a cardiologist on board on that trip, I have never felt safer at sea ?

 

[Graham376]

I have crewed across the Atlantic on an expedition yacht which had an AED on board. The owner is a retired head of an A&E departement and is pretty certain it can make a difference. There was also a cardiologist on board on that trip, I have never felt safer at sea ?

I don't think I would trust three of my friends who are retired doctors, one is a pathologist and the other two worked in medical school anatomy dept.

 

[mjcoon]

I don't think I would trust three of my friends who are retired doctors, one is a pathologist and the other two worked in medical school anatomy dept.

Do they take a supply of blank death certificates?

 

[penfold]

Only useful if you can get airlifted to hospital very quickly, which might limit your sailing range.

Exactly that; a perfectly sensible thing to have if you're within SAR helicopter range, but not any use while on trans-ocean passage. They're not cheap but if you can afford it why not? They're pretty much automatic these days, once you've stuck the pads on as directed by the pictograms and pressed "Go!" it will tell you what its doing, no intervention will be required other than standing back/not touching the casualty.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Do they take a supply of blank death certificates?

No need - their patients are already deceased!

 

[DJE]

A heart attack on the boat at sea. Tough on the crew but perhaps not such a bad way to go.

 

[johnalison]

A heart attack on the boat at sea. Tough on the crew but perhaps not such a bad way to go.

I once gave a first-aid talk to my SC. Having covered everything from fb in eye to labour I invited questions. I was expecting one about heart attacks and gave the conventional advice of the time that basically there was nothing at all you could do except try to make the sufferer comfortable.

 

[Graham376]

A heart attack on the boat at sea. Tough on the crew but perhaps not such a bad way to go.

Depending on the type of attack, it can be a painful and not too quick way to go.

 

[Plum]

I've spent the last week or so at the Mayo Clinic with my son who was having open heart surgery. I myself had a minor heart attack 9 years ago and I have 1 stent. As you might imagine there has been a lot of talk about the risk of cardiac arrest and I got a strong recommendation for a relatively cheap idiot proof personal defibrillator which I've just ordered and plan to carry on the boat. Here's a link for anyone who may be interested.

AED Home and Personal Use Defibrillator - American AED

To echo what others have said: strongly recommend you and all your crew get CPR plus AED training, preferably using the same model of AED you intend to buy.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[PilotWolf]

Depending on the type of attack, it can be a painful and not too quick way to go.

There is a difference between a heart attack (myocardial infarction) and a cardiac arrest.

The first certainly likely to be painful and distressing, the second you probably won’t know anything about it.

W.