Older boats you could win a club event with

mrming, the OP. did buy a boat that was recommended in post #30 by yours truly. I have been critised for continually recommending the Westerly Fulmar, but they are brilliant boats to sail and race. Behind the scenes, I helped him buy the right Fulmar for his needs. Earlier this year we met for the first time and he thanked me for my advice.
 
Yare and Bure one design. Designed 1908.
Regularly wins club events and has several times won the 3 Rivers Race ,( which normally about 100 boats entre), against a variety of boats from 14 ft to 40ft
 
kestreljames said:
No one's suggested a snapdragon?!🤔🤣🤔🤣
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Actually It would have a place on the race course
Would make a cheap club committee boat. Stick a boom high up between mast & backstay & run lines from that for the flags to the guard rail.
Race crew will have a loo, somewhere to make tea & toast. Plus shelter out of the weather whilst the boats are on the course.
If the club has a gantry it can be beached on the bilge keels at high tide & picked up or just dropped on to a flat launching trailer, for winter storage. If trouble with the engine, it is not too big that the club safety boat cannot tow it to its mooring.
Decent anchor & anchor winch, so it does not drag during races.
Could be used as a club training boat for prospective members if you want to put them off sailing for good.
Cheap as chips & when done with it can be cut up & skipped as no one will miss it
 
Robert Wilson said:
Van der Stadt Invicta (Used to beat the Javelin - boo hoo- round the cans in The Fal)

As for long-keelers, good old Benbecula won the Manacles Pursuit Race in mid-60s; on handicap. She is 36ft O/A but 21ft W/L :encouragement:
Gaff cutter built in 1897

Now sailing fully restored, under her original name of Myfanwy, around Milford Haven and just cleaned-up every race at the Dun Loaghaire Festival. She even beat Peggy Brawn!I was at times succesful with my Invicta 26
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Great to see the Invicta 26 mentioned, I won several races over the years in my Invicta 26.
Another boat to add to the list of older potential race winners is the Sadler 25, still competitive in club racing.
 
I have a GK 29 and estimate it’s about the same speed as a Fulmar, although I would imagine the longer waterline length of a Fulmar would give it an advantage in some conditions.
however this whole discussion is pretty irrelevant, if it’s a handicap event the winner will be the boat that’s sailed best compared with its handicap, and how fast or slow it is in relation to other boats is completely irrelevant.
 
It used to be said that a good "biggun" should always beat a good small one. So I would expect the Fulmar to beat the GK 29 once the going got a bit tough. Plus , it depends on the course, round the cans, or a windward leaward triangle etc. That might give the GK a better chance
 
flaming said:
If you're racing on IRC it would be a massive surprise if you won anything in them....
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It's a while since I owned a Grand Surprise, but it was possible to make them fairly competitive by reducing the sail plan a bit I got the IRC rating down to just being a fraction higher than a J109, but still leaving us faster than them in most conditions (this was still using asymmetric kites). Could have probably optimised further using symmetric kites - but would have needed one or two extra crew. I would still say they are probably the nicest boat to sail that I have been on as for a boat capable of doing close to 20kts they are very forgiving and well balanced.
 
Ingwe said:
It's a while since I owned a Grand Surprise, but it was possible to make them fairly competitive by reducing the sail plan a bit I got the IRC rating down to just being a fraction higher than a J109, but still leaving us faster than them in most conditions (this was still using asymmetric kites). Could have probably optimised further using symmetric kites - but would have needed one or two extra crew. I would still say they are probably the nicest boat to sail that I have been on as for a boat capable of doing close to 20kts they are very forgiving and well balanced.
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Oh they are great boats. Have raced against them a fair amount and never found them to be competitive though.
The one sailing the RSYC summer series is off 1.023. Most 109s currently sit in the 1.002-1.009 region.
 
flaming said:
Oh they are great boats. Have raced against them a fair amount and never found them to be competitive though.
The one sailing the RSYC summer series is off 1.023. Most 109s currently sit in the 1.002-1.009 region.
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It must be 9 years since I sold the Grand Surprise at which point we were rating 1.028 and the J109's were about 1.020. We used to do ok though, we won a decent number of inshore races within Plymouth and won the main summer series overall one year and won quite a lot of coastal races crewed and 2 handed. Inshore to do well you have to play to it's strengths and be aggressive in the pre start as it is much more maneuverable than most of the other boats in that rating band so we could win most of the starts which gives you a couple of boat lengths advantage from the off.
I imagine they aren't good in Solent chop though as it's just too light a boat and the chop would slow you down upwind and downwind. In proper waves it's really good because of the helm control, I think my longest surf on an individual wave in that boat was about a mile and a half.
 
Ingwe said:
It must be 9 years since I sold the Grand Surprise at which point we were rating 1.028 and the J109's were about 1.020. We used to do ok though, we won a decent number of inshore races within Plymouth and won the main summer series overall one year and won quite a lot of coastal races crewed and 2 handed. Inshore to do well you have to play to it's strengths and be aggressive in the pre start as it is much more maneuverable than most of the other boats in that rating band so we could win most of the starts which gives you a couple of boat lengths advantage from the off.
I imagine they aren't good in Solent chop though as it's just too light a boat and the chop would slow you down upwind and downwind. In proper waves it's really good because of the helm control, I think my longest surf on an individual wave in that boat was about a mile and a half.
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The 109s have all dropped the overlapping headsails, they had them when they were up in the 1.020 region.

Probably true that solent chop is really going to hurt the surprise. Though the summer series has been very light so far, and it's well off the pace. Will have a closer look this weekend.
 
Surely if you want to win handicap races it's about buying any boat you fancy, getting a really good set of sails, obsessively fairing and buffing the bottom, recruiting a keen crew and training hard, then turning up at every single race of the series?
 
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