Old Oyster worth considering?

[PHN]

Still looking for a true blue water sailing yacht (38-40 ft) to be used for the next 10 years or so to sail the world. Mostly looking at the better AWB's of around year 2000.

Occasionally an Oyster from the early 1980's pops up in adds at price levels a lot cheaper then HR and Najad of similar size and age.

Currently we have a lot of youtube channels of young people sailing the world in these kind of "older/cheaper" boats.

That makes me wonder if an older boat can be just as good/safe for my purpose, provided the running cost don't "compensate" for the lower purchase price.

Or do you think that these older Oyster (and other quality brand) boats are close to "end of life" and just end up being a "money pit"?

 

[Toutvabien]

Hi there, we have an old Oyster 35, built in 1980, that we had since 2004 and have done lots of miles in, across the Atlantic, Biscay, West of Ireland, Spain and Portugal. Currently based in La Rochelle.

I think they they work well as a liveaboard for a couple of people, our aft cabin is particularly spacious. Stowge is really very good for lengthy passage making, big tanks for fuel, 250 litre and water, 500 litres. Strong and secure and the quality of the build is a real positive when investing further money in new kit etc. Over the years we have put a lot of money into the boat,Hydrovane, rerigged, new engine, recovered deck, repainted the hull, new epoxy and coppercoat etc. etc ,and it is now looking like it is good for another 40 years. Sail well in stronger winds, but not much good in less that about 10knots of breeze, secure and predicable motion in a big ocean swell, so that you can still be in the cockpit drinking tea going downwind in a force 7/8.

Our boat is completely unpredictable in reverse, so a bow thruster was required for dodging around in a marina, but that is the main complaint that I have.

We could have easily bought a newer boat over the years, but the size works very well for us as a cruising couple and we decided to invest in the boat that we already have instead. We have a good forepeak cabin for guests but only one heads, galley is well designed , nav table is big enough for paper charts.

I guess it depends what you call a money pit, we have spent a lot of money on the boat over the last fifteen years but the boat has been worked hard, and certainly earned its keep. Oyster 35 and 39 are very similar boats, I am not sure how many were built but not that many seem to be on the market at any time. The basic structure will last well so like anything else attention to the detail of an individual boat such as engine rigging etc. will repay dividends.

 

[V1701]

Blimey where to start? Personally I'd all but forget about the age, make and model & look for a boat that's relatively conservatively rigged, has a keel/rudder configuration that's suited to long offshore passages & comfort/safety at sea as well as when in port/at anchor, a recent or low hours engine, recent standing rigging & sails, electronics that are adequate and sufficient and preferably already fitted with windvane self steering...

 

[Graham376]

Blimey where to start? Personally I'd all but forget about the age, make and model & look for a boat that's relatively conservatively rigged, has a keel/rudder configuration that's suited to long offshore passages & comfort/safety at sea as well as when in port/at anchor, a recent or low hours engine, recent standing rigging & sails, electronics that are adequate and sufficient and preferably already fitted with windvane self steering...

And doesn't have a wooden deck.

 

[V1701]

And doesn't have a wooden deck.

Indeed, or a dark blue hull...

 

[PHN]

Blimey where to start? Personally I'd all but forget about the age, make and model

Well there is a price tag to every boat. A brand new HR or Najad obviously ticks all required boxes ... except for the budget. I have sailed all over the world and stood next to all kind of people who made "posh" trips to the Antarctic and other exotic/expensive areas. I had the same fun and experience for only a fraction of their cost. The only difference is that I don't need a floating palace.

My purpose is to (continue) sailing the world and have some room to live aboard. I don't care about what boat it is as long as it does the job safely within a certain budget. I am fully aware what it takes to be a blue water sailing boat.

A 1970's Jeanneau generally speaking is "end of life", because that is how the French build them as an expendable product.

A 1980's HR or Najad generally speaking is - IMHO - heavily overpriced, but technically not "end of life". Only the design and sailing characteristics of later models were improved.

So ... where would a 1980's Oyster fit in that picture?

Currently I am reconsidering if my starting point needs to be either a younger AWB or if an older quality boat is fine just as well without ending up to be more expensive in depreciation + maintenance over a 10 year period.

Indeed old teak decks and similar challenges - often found on HR and Najad - are on top of my "walk away" warning list.

 

[ip485]

What I would look at on any yacht. and the more so on an older one, and I would look very carefully, at exactly what needs doing and what you will want to add. Subject to a structural survey the basic yacht will be fine. Its eveything else that will cost and make the boat more or less liveable. You cannot over think the costs either unless the cost is totally irrelevant. It seems to me almost every yacht has stuff not working and stuff about to stop working. Putting it all right takes money, time and effort, and, unless you have done it before usually at least double what you expect for each job. Once done it will be a very good buy I am sure as long as you have truly factored in all the costs - strart thinking about - do you need complete new navionics, radar will be very useful as well as AIS, what about the rigging, if its more than 10 years old it probably should be replaced, sails, you probably will want to set off with a new set unless they are less than 5 years old, fridge/freezers whats the state of the compressors and are they adequately insulated, what about the batteries, there is a good chance you may need a new bank, and are the chargers adequate, for blue water cruising a rework of the charging systems is often a must, have the tanks ever been cleaned so the list goes on.

Speak to people who have really been blue water and work out exactly what you need, frankly the exact make and model matters less than a sound yacht with everything working in top condiiton and with the bells and wishes you want.

I know some will say you can cruise without any of the bells and whistles - but in reality who really wants to? Lists may vary, but have your list and make sure everything on it WORKS, it will make the whole experience so much better.

 

[rotrax]

What I would look at on any yacht. and the more so on an older one, and I would look very carefully, at exactly what needs doing and what you will want to add. Subject to a structural survey the basic yacht will be fine. Its eveything else that will cost and make the boat more or less liveable. You cannot over think the costs either unless the cost is totally irrelevant. It seems to me almost every yacht has stuff not working and stuff about to stop working. Putting it all right takes money, time and effort, and, unless you have done it before usually at least double what you expect for each job. Once done it will be a very good buy I am sure as long as you have truly factored in all the costs - strart thinking about - do you need complete new navionics, radar will be very useful as well as AIS, what about the rigging, if its more than 10 years old it probably should be replaced, sails, you probably will want to set off with a new set unless they are less than 5 years old, fridge/freezers whats the state of the compressors and are they adequately insulated, what about the batteries, there is a good chance you may need a new bank, and are the chargers adequate, for blue water cruising a rework of the charging systems is often a must, have the tanks ever been cleaned so the list goes on.

Speak to people who have really been blue water and work out exactly what you need, frankly the exact make and model matters less than a sound yacht with everything working in top condiiton and with the bells and wishes you want.

I know some will say you can cruise without any of the bells and whistles - but in reality who really wants to? Lists may vary, but have your list and make sure everything on it WORKS, it will make the whole experience so much better.

A sensible reply.

First Mate and I own two boats, one a high end 12.4 metre Motorsailer, 11 years old, very well equipped - and it was expensive! She is currently on the hard in Gosport.

Not many drama's as it had been little used, but it had been seriously neglected. Despite our hard use - average 1900 NM's each season - no major problems to date, just normal maintenance and improvements. The quality stands out.

The other is a Steel 32 footer, Hartley design, self built by a very competent fabricator/carpenter 33 years ago. This one is in Evans Bay Marina, Wellington, NZ. Cheap as chips 5 years ago, £4,250,00 Stirling, epirb, liferaft. dinghy, outboard, Bukh DV20 Diesel plus the usual cooker, fridge, heads and shower.

The Hartley is the one that requires most attention, cosmetically and mechanically. It is older, the kit is older and it has had a hard life.

The saving grace is that for the time being I can handle most jobs myself. If I had to pay yard rates I could not afford to keep either.

The Hartley however, gives me great job satisfaction as it has been gradually improved during our winter visits to NZ, and the jobs we have carried have all been successful.

The locals have told us what a good job we have done on her this year, antifoul and a coat of white on the hull, plus modifying the exhaust outlet and fitting new exhaust hose and a silencer. It does not sound like a motorbike any more!

So, If you have the skills - not to mention the budget - to improve and maintain an older yacht, it can be a very worthwhile thing to do.

But, before you jump, look around at the wrecks which were once someones dreams, take a moment to think, and jump in - or walk away.

Whatever you decide, Good Luck.

PS - Our Kiwi DIL's father is a very well known Kiwi artist and author.

Our Christmas present from him and his wife was a splendid watercolour of the Hartley under full sale in Wellington Harbour.

 

[Bobc]

I think that once a boat gets to about 10 years old, it become all about condition rather than age. A badly abused 10 year old boat is likely to be more of a liability than a 40 year old "pride and joy".

Boats like Oysters tend to be more "pride and joy" yachts, so it's highly likely that you'll find something well cared for.

There will always be things to repair/replace, especially when you start to use the boat properly as a liveaboard, but that just comes with the territory and will be true of anything you buy that's over 10 years old.

Just also bear in mind that most cruising people spend 90% of their time at anchor, and only 10% of their time sailing, so buy something that works as a floating home and don't just buy based on sailing ability (but at the same time, get something you feel confident in).

 

[PHN]

Thanks for the comments.

I am fully aware what blue water sailing is and what it requires. Been there and done that.

The boat will not become a floating home, but will be used for serious sailing around the world.

My main concern is the question whether or not I can expect an old Oyster to be structurally sound and safe for sailing the world for another 10 years or so without spending substantially more money on it then when buying a newer AWB. Of course no 2 boats are alike and a survey must prove if a particular boat is OK. There is no intention to restore a "wreck" or anything like that.

For the extra's "old" can be an advantage over a newer boat that "just not" needs replacement of all kind of things. When everyone agrees that sails, rigging and electronics must be replaced their value is zero and I can choose how I want to replace it. With a newer boat I am usually stuck with someone else's choices that I do have to pay for as part of the purchase price and still need to replace it in a couple of years.

From there I have to do the math how much it will cost in purchase and refit to have what I want.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Still looking for a true blue water sailing yacht (38-40 ft) to be used for the next 10 years or so to sail the world. Mostly looking at the better AWB's of around year 2000.

The economics of a well found Bavaria, or equivalent, at 10 years old or less, with you as second owner will be significantly better than the economics of an old Oyster. It is a false economy to think that old boats are economic, they are not, in any way. The total cost of ownership, the price you pay, sail off and 10 years later, come back and sell the boat will still be lower with the Bavaria or equivalent.

I have bought a Southern Boat Building Yard, built Rival 41C and fully refitted it, it's not what you can see that you need to be woried about, it's what crops up during the refit. You need to drop rudders, pull prop shafts, engine mounts etc on these old boats as that stuff gets worn out, some of it age related irrespective of use, some of it usage wear. Replacing interior lights for example, headlining failure becomes apparent, old housings don't take new LEDs, new LED housings, dont fit head lining holes, leads to new headlining. Old windows, only cure is a full refurbishment service, sure do it yourself, faster to send away.

My own experience is that I spend money on integrity issues: water tightness, stern gear, rigging, rewiring, new sails. In amongst that lot I ended up with new galley, new headlining, new cushions, veneer replacement in some areas, some bulkhead work, some hull structural work.

The fact of the matter is this. I spent a lot of money, a lot time, ended up paying a small fortune to a shipwright to finish the joinery. I have a well found yacht now but with no radar, old instruments and old battery charging system. If I had a bought a new Bavaria in 2008, I would be quids in, even with owner upgrades. My experience is not unique, I have talked to a lot of people who have done this and they all share a lot of the same experiences and cost increases.

Say you pay £40k for an old, quality yacht. I think you could easily spend £40k to replace the really necessary worn out stuff and still have an old quality yacht but with all the other old stuff still in place. At 80k there are a lot of modern boats out there with +10 years of reasonable reliability still built in.

 

[Concerto]

I agree with BlowingOldBoots that a refit could easily cost as much as the boat cost to buy. Buying second hand is always about condition, it pays to buy the best available example rather than the cheapest one.

However returning to the original question about possibly buying a 40 year old Oyster. Oysters of that age were built by Landamores and were properly built by people who knew yachts and what was needed to do the job right first time. They worked with Oyster from the late 1970's until 2012, so construction wise any Oyster from this period would be well built. About Us - Landamores Boatbuilders Established 1923 I should say know the Landamore family and have sailed with them in the distant past.

Another quality range you could also consider is Contest. Built in a similar manner and my brother has owned two models, both of which were well built.

 

[ip485]

Thanks for the comments.

I am fully aware what blue water sailing is and what it requires. Been there and done that.

The boat will not become a floating home, but will be used for serious sailing around the world.

Good.

Out of interest, have you done it as an owner?

As to a floating home, I think the point the previous poster was making than even as a serious around the world sailor, you spend a lot of time at anchor, unless of course you are racing, or just doing it for the hell? Isnt the point to visit and explore lots of interesting places?

Its interesting everyone's perspective. It is like sailing itself. How many think crusing is all about sailing. It is a lovely idea, but when you talk to many who have done it, it is surprisng how much time you spend motoring as another example of how preconceived ideas are not born out.

My IP is relatively young and reasonably large. The sytems are surprsingly complicated and I can honestly say it has taken some time to get to the point where absolutely everything works, and doesnt routinely go wrong, hence my earlier comments. I reckon as a guide when a yacht is between 10 and 20 years old most thinks are going to need replacing before you undertaken serious round the world cruising otherwise you can expect to spend even more time at anchor undertaking repairs. Of course the simpler the systems the less this is true, but also the less comfortable some might argue will be time on board. As ever, its all abut compromises.

I also agree with BlowingOldBoots and Rotrax, some good comments there.

 

[Kukri]

I have a 1975 Nicholson with a 2011 engine and good sails. She had been very well maintained. So far, in my ownership, steering, furler, electronics, cutless bearing, vane, autopilot, windlass. Coming up in 2021, drop the mast, replace rigging, topsides respray.
Then think about the below decks stuff. The plumbing and wiring is fairly recent and well done, and I don't want to change the layout much. This is assuming no nasty surprises.

Why do this? Well, I am used to older boats, the quality of the basic boat is absolutely superb, I get to choose the gear that goes onto and into her (important point) and it will all be more or less new. But to be honest she is a bit of an old man's E type - or perhaps in this case make that an Aston Martin DB5 - this was the design that impressed me more than any other when I was in my teens.

Oh and if you think dark blue topsides are trouble, try red - or should we say blothchy pink?

 

[HappyAfloat]

This website may be of interest. A UK family buys a 1990 Oyster 435 and detail repairs required before they set off.

Sailing Blog Archives • Growing a Pair

 

[doug748]

This is both old and new.... and cheap as well...and built for the job:

Boat Details - John Rodriguez Yachts

Buy it please and save me having to keep gawping at it.

 

[PHN]

Out of interest, have you done it as an owner?

As to a floating home, I think the point the previous poster was making than even as a serious around the world sailor, you spend a lot of time at anchor, unless of course you are racing, or just doing it for the hell? Isnt the point to visit and explore lots of interesting places?

I sailed the oceans mainly on other boats with other skippers. Having been away as far as the Antarctic, Svalbard, Alaska, etc. and also having certain obligations at work that became for me the practical solution how to sail all over the world. Longest trip was about 2 month and 5700 nm passing Antarctic peninsula, Weddell Sea and Southern Ocean. On the other side of the world I crossed the Denmark Strait between Iceland and Greenland 3 times on different ships. Can on occasion be a nasty stretch of water.

Sometimes you run into skippers that agree to disagree, skippers who freak out when you sail of the "edge" of the electronic chart plotter and a paper chart scares them or skippers that don't want to know when you warn them that they are entering a dangerous ice field for the sole reason that they "have to" reach a certain destination.

So it is time to move on and take my own boat ... at least to the not so high lattitudes as that requires a different boat and different preparation.

I do agree that sailing is about visiting places and seeing sights. The boat is my vehicle for that purpose. But it needs to be able to make long voyages and capable to handle difficult situations in rough weather ... within the constraints of a certain budget.

 

[jwilson]

I have sailed on an 1970s Oyster-built boat, and whilst not a bad boat I didn't rate it as really much better built than a comparable aged Jeanneau Melody. In comparison however to my present similar sized mid-2000s Jeanneau, the old Jeanneau Melody was heavier, had much more real tree-wood in the accommodation, and didn't have a toerail held on with Sikaflex and self-tappers.

As others have said, condition and maintenance are key, not age or builder.

 

[Lightwave395]

This is both old and new.... and cheap as well...and built for the job:

Boat Details - John Rodriguez Yachts

Buy it please and save me having to keep gawping at it.

No brainer really, just go buy it...

 

[Kukri]

No brainer really, just go buy it...

Agree. That’s a very good boat.