Old Oyster worth considering?

[V1701]

...A 1970's Jeanneau generally speaking is "end of life", because that is how the French build them as an expendable product...

Sorry I would respectfully disagree - the reason older plastic boats may be end of life is due to lack of maintenance & upkeep. Absolutely don't get one that's still on it's original by now decrepit lump of rust of an engine or that's had little more than the odd bottom scrape, slap on some more antifoul & plop her back in during her entire life but as someone else said the older ones are arguably both better built and better suited (size for size) for offshore than the newer ones...

 

[ip485]

I sailed the oceans mainly on other boats with other skippers. Having been away as far as the Antarctic, Svalbard, Alaska, etc. and also having certain obligations at work that became for me the practical solution how to sail all over the world. Longest trip was about 2 month and 5700 nm passing Antarctic peninsula, Weddell Sea and Southern Ocean. On the other side of the world I crossed the Denmark Strait between Iceland and Greenland 3 times on different ships. Can on occasion be a nasty stretch of water.

Much as me then, which is why I asked. It is a funy thing but being crew and/or skipper, is very different from being owner / skipper. You realise that the maintenance issues of course go well beyond the time on board for a passage, and that the success of the passage (in terms of not having to fix things) is down to the preparation. I have done a lot of off shore racing. It is wonderful to turn up and crew someones elses yacht, especially one where everything was done, absolutely no expense spared, and joy that it all works. With mine I strive for the same, I carry at least one spare for pretty much everything and touch wood there isnt anything at the moment that doesnt work. It may seem trivial, but these days some yachts have two fully electric fresh water loos, which comprise all the vac. system in the bowl of the loo, the vac generator, and the macerator duplicated in the first part for both. Its great, but there is plenty to go wrong as well and after ten years the vac pumps will be getting to the end of their life, the duckbills done with (even if they have been changed as frequently as they should) and the seals on their last legs. You neither want to get the bucket out if you can avoid it, or be sourcing a new vac chamber from some remote location. These are the things that you come to appreciate as an owner that isnt going to simply park the boat and at the end of the day have the yard fix it.

Chose a yacht that works for you, but make sure you know the systems, are prepared to replace everything that doesnt work or is likely to be on its last legs, and is sufficiently comfortable to enable you to live aboard in the manner you would wish, otherwise you will not be living aboard for long, especially if you have a partner that has anything to say about it.

I do agree that sailing is about visiting places and seeing sights. The boat is my vehicle for that purpose. But it needs to be able to make long voyages and capable to handle difficult situations in rough weather ... within the constraints of a certain budget.

I am biased, but I chose the IP for exactly this reason. It s a terrifc live aboard in that it has all the home comforts (washing machine, dryer, Genset, big fridge/freezer, air con, etc) so for me a real home from home, it isnt the fastest, but will cross oceans in complete safety and comfort, so for me it ticks all the boxes, but, as is so often said here, everything is a compromise.

If the Oyster ticks all the boxes for you in terms of volume and sailing performance it will work great, all you then must do is satisfy yourself what needs replacing and then to factor in a really realistic budget for having the work done.

 

[Concerto]

One factor that has not been mentioned in the discussion so far is how the boat handles rough weather. The more modern yachts with a high internal volume tend to float on the water with a more lively ride compared to a hull design that was primarily for sailing in all weather conditions and will offer a smoother ride in rough weather. Personally I prefer a smoother ride than a faster bouncy ride, so I would choose an older design. A lively ride is far more tiring on the crew and is more likely cause sea sickness. Yes, I have read the comment about 90% of the time you are not sailing - BUT you cannot always avoid rough weather - also you will have a more comfortable time at anchor in imperfect conditions.

 

[lw395]

This is both old and new.... and cheap as well...and built for the job:

Boat Details - John Rodriguez Yachts

Buy it please and save me having to keep gawping at it.

Not really my style of boat, it's too much a pastiche of older boats.
A lot of wasted length with that massive stern overhang.

But, once you're out of sight of the marina, length gives you not only more speed, but more seaworthiness.
The only time you'll regret having the biggest boat that's an option is if it's underpowered, i.e. under canvassed, or when you have to buy major parts for it. It should have better storage and ability to take more stores without being slowed down too.
But that particular boat, I'm not sure.
Surely you wouldn't photograph it with the fenders hanging on the granny bars if there was anywhere proper to put them? Is the fit-out impractical? Does that narrow arse-end mean there's no real space for fenders, let alone a tender and outboard?
You have to sail a few one-offs to appreciate that the mass builders have learned a thing or two about layouts that work....

 

[doug748]

..
Surely you wouldn't photograph it with the fenders hanging on the granny bars if there was anywhere proper to put them? Is the fit-out impractical? Does that narrow arse-end mean there's no real space for fenders, let alone a tender and outboard?
...

Not a worry.

I think the forum dudes have decided that the way forward is to leave fenders hanging, or pull them onto the deck if you are bound for the Southern Ocean.
.
.

 

[Concerto]

Not really my style of boat, it's too much a pastiche of older boats.
A lot of wasted length with that massive stern overhang.

But, once you're out of sight of the marina, length gives you not only more speed, but more seaworthiness.
The only time you'll regret having the biggest boat that's an option is if it's underpowered, i.e. under canvassed, or when you have to buy major parts for it. It should have better storage and ability to take more stores without being slowed down too.
But that particular boat, I'm not sure.
Surely you wouldn't photograph it with the fenders hanging on the granny bars if there was anywhere proper to put them? Is the fit-out impractical? Does that narrow arse-end mean there's no real space for fenders, let alone a tender and outboard?
You have to sail a few one-offs to appreciate that the mass builders have learned a thing or two about layouts that work....

Having sailed on one of the early Nich 45's, there is an enormous sail locker in the cockpit. It is just forward of the wheel under the raised section dividing the cockpit. Should have no problem for storing fenders, more likely to loose them in the locker.

 

[Kukri]

Not really my style of boat, it's too much a pastiche of older boats.
A lot of wasted length with that massive stern overhang.

But, once you're out of sight of the marina, length gives you not only more speed, but more seaworthiness.
The only time you'll regret having the biggest boat that's an option is if it's underpowered, i.e. under canvassed, or when you have to buy major parts for it. It should have better storage and ability to take more stores without being slowed down too.
But that particular boat, I'm not sure.
Surely you wouldn't photograph it with the fenders hanging on the granny bars if there was anywhere proper to put them? Is the fit-out impractical? Does that narrow arse-end mean there's no real space for fenders, let alone a tender and outboard?
You have to sail a few one-offs to appreciate that the mass builders have learned a thing or two about layouts that work....

I’m biased of course, but I don’t think this boat is a ‘pastiche of older boats ’ -she is a 1975 design - and I’m not sure that she can be called a ‘one off’.

She was moulded and outfitted some years after production ended, so in that sense, she is a ‘one off’, but she certainly fits in the class.

When the design was introduced, Camper and Nicholson were generally thought of as amongst the pre-eminent production boat builders, and the yachting magazines enthused about the care and thought that went into the details of their designs.

She is of her time - designed to race under the IOR but still influenced by the RORC rule.

 

[michael_w]

Having owned 3 Scandinavian built boats and 3 non-Scandinavian ones I can safely say the only difference in construction or fit out it the sheer cost of the Scandinavian worker. The extra quality is just a myth, All boats have their faults and you would be deluded to think because it has an expensive name and price tag it will be problem free.

That said, my boat is a 1988 built Oyster Heritage Mk II, an aft cockpit 37' Holman & Pye design, Built like the proverbial brick shithouse. Ok, she's not the quickest thing put there and you're hard pushed to get more than 7.5kts and she likes being footed upwind. But her other qualities make up for this, An easy boat for a couple to handle, at sea or in harbour. I vividly remember 6 of us trying to push a 50'er off the dock into the teeth of a trade wind when a fender popped out.

Cockpit ergonomics are a vastly improved over some designs, One of my Scandinavian boats the only place you could sit and see the jib meant both your legs went to sleep, Also the mainsheet fouled the primary winches on a reach, This boat was designed in the 1980s.

The ambiance of the saloon encourages people to stay and chat!

We've done a 2-year Atlantic Circuit in her and are looking forward to going again sometime in the future. The boat herself has now done 6 Atlantic crossings.

For further information the blog Sail with Flo is well worth a watch. Florence is a Mk I Heritage.

 

[PHN]

That said, my boat is a 1988 built Oyster Heritage Mk II, an aft cockpit 37' Holman & Pye design

Actually that is the model (Heritage and not the racer version) which attracted my attention to Oyster in the search of a new boat. I have read of old Oysters being just "old and worn out", but also seen recent pictures of the Heritage that look pretty OK to me. I don't know if this 37 ft is a little bit too small, but I don't want to go over 40 ft as maintenance cost will skyrocket.

 

[Stemar]

If you think 37' might be a bit small, think of Shane Acton - he went round the world in 18' and pulled on the way

I vividly remember 6 of us trying to push a 50'er off the dock into the teeth of a trade wind when a fender popped out.
This is one reason why I sail a 24 footer! She has a strop coming alongside, I tug on a rope and she shapes up. Anything much over 30' will just laugh and pull back

 

[Kukri]

I’ve seen Michael’s boat. She’s pretty nice.

‘Case closed’, I think!

 

[Kukri]

If you think 37' might be a bit small, think of Shane Acton - he went round the world in 18' and pulled on the way

I vividly remember 6 of us trying to push a 50'er off the dock into the teeth of a trade wind when a fender popped out.
This is one reason why I sail a 24 footer! She has a strop coming alongside, I tug on a rope and she shapes up. Anything much over 30' will just laugh and pull back

Try 55ft! I know what it feels like to be the mahout of a kind and gentle elephant. She has lovely manners but forget trying to use brute force; you have to persuade her with charm - and winches...

 

[michael_w]

Aww, thanks Kukri!

If anyone wants to know the faults and foibles of the Oyster Heritage please PM me. They are pretty solid boats and only have a couple of weak points.

 

[PHN]

If you think 37' might be a bit small, think of Shane Acton - he went round the world in 18' and pulled on the way

There are many examples of small boats travelling the world ... though not my choice. I don't mind having some comfort on board .

But I am sure something suitable will pop up. There is no rush in finding my next boat.

 

[Paddy Fields]

I reckon as a guide when a yacht is between 10 and 20 years old most thinks are going to need replacing before you undertaken serious round the world cruising otherwise you can expect to spend even more time at anchor undertaking repairs.

At what age does a boat start to need some real work doing to it? The comment above, as well as some other comments elsewhere in this thread seems to imply that a boat younger than 10 years old that has an average level of use/abuse will stand a good chance to being more or less "good to go" - or at least the contingency you'd have to set aside for her would be relatively small.

I also get the feeling that with people who don't look after their boats, and run them into the ground, 10 years is about the point at which the boat becomes too much trouble, and they get rid. Or is it sooner?

 

[Deleted member 36384]

At what age does a boat start to need some real work doing to it? The comment above, as well as some other comments elsewhere in this thread seems to imply that a boat younger than 10 years old that has an average level of use/abuse will stand a good chance to being more or less "good to go" - or at least the contingency you'd have to set aside for her would be relatively small.

I also get the feeling that with people who don't look after their boats, and run them into the ground, 10 years is about the point at which the boat becomes too much trouble, and they get rid. Or is it sooner?

It's quite simple Paddy Fields, probability. A newer boat probably has less stuff that is worn out than a 30 year old boat. There are always exceptions.

 

[lw395]

It's quite simple Paddy Fields, probability. A newer boat probably has less stuff that is worn out than a 30 year old boat. There are always exceptions.

A boat that's done 5 hard years can have a lot of worn out stuff.
I've found that smaller boats used towards their limits can eat a lot of gear.
My Impala, which had been raced moderately seriously, needed a lot of blocks and so forth replacing or sorting.
Bigger boats may have gear which is up to the job and won't wear out. A boat that's been continuously worked hard for 15 years may have had everything sorted and upgraded so that weak gear has been eliminated.
Every boat is different. I've seen worn out geear on 5 year old boats, I've seen Co32's where everything is just so and I've seen Co32s where everything is knackered.
Smaller boats mostly marketed for inshore may also want more gear uprating for shorthanded ocean sailing. E.g. winch upgrades can be pricey.
Bits for a 9 ton boat can be more than twice the cost of bits for a 6 ton boat.
But bigger stuff is often rebuildable....

 

[michael_w]

I've often though that the gear and equipment fitted to the size of boats forumites generally sail is based on a rather puny 'leisure duty cycle'. So it doesn't last very long especially when long term cruising.. Once the boat is big enough to justify fishing boat size gear, it all seems to be far more robust, though more expensive.

Somewhere I read that a cruising boat hand her equipment is in one of three states:

1. Broken
2. Being repaired
3. Pretending to work

 

[dunedin]

I've often though that the gear and equipment fitted to the size of boats forumites generally sail is based on a rather puny 'leisure duty cycle'. So it doesn't last very long especially when long term cruising.. Once the boat is big enough to justify fishing boat size gear, it all seems to be far more robust, though more expensive.

Any scientific basis for that somewhat odd statement?

Firstly, as far as I can tell, “forumites” sail boats from 16 - 60 foot, covering all bases in between. So not sure what size of boats you think we “generally sail”?
Also, many/most medium sized new boats these days are designed with a strong eye to the charter market - where the gear and equipment gets very heavy (and often unsympathetic) use. Certainly not a light duty cycle, and arguably many aspects to heavier use than long term cruisers.

 

[eddystone]

Sorry I would respectfully disagree - the reason older plastic boats may be end of life is due to lack of maintenance & upkeep. Absolutely don't get one that's still on it's original by now decrepit lump of rust of an engine or that's had little more than the odd bottom scrape, slap on some more antifoul & plop her back in during her entire life but as someone else said the older ones are arguably both better built and better suited (size for size) for offshore than the newer ones...

OTOH just spent 10 days on a 3 year old Janneau and layup seemed solid enough - same for plumbing, engineering, rig. I think the limited life bit would be internal joinery - plastic edging strip already coming off. This is obviously not a comment on design suitability for OP purpose. Why do they cut the bow away at the waterline? Makes bow blow off in wind easily and prone to slamming