Official Boat Length

[ShaneAtSea]

Hi,

When looking at boat insurance or when booking a berth which length definition should be used?

The L.W.L (Waterline Length) or the L.O.A (Length Overall)?

 

[Bilgediver]

Hi,

When looking at boat insurance or when booking a berth which length definition should be used?

The L.W.L (Waterline Length) or the L.O.A (Length Overall)?

Do you really need to ask ? We are talking marinas aren't we and they are hard times. Definitely length overall and heaven help you if you have transom davits and a bowsprit as they are fair game for being included .as well as all part of of LOA. Length Over All.

 

[Leighb]

When Judy was manager at Woolverstone she was known to go down with a tape measure and check if she thought someone was trying it on! A friend who had a classic yacht with a bowsprit on one of their moorings had a long-standing battle with her as she insisted on including the bowsprit in the LOA, our friend said this was absurd, as the bowsprit was ahead of the mooring point and therefore did not affect the swinging room. He did win the argument in the end but it took a few years.

 

[ShaneAtSea]

When Judy was manager at Woolverstone she was known to go down with a tape measure and check if she thought someone was trying it on! A friend who had a classic yacht with a bowsprit on one of their moorings had a long-standing battle with her as she insisted on including the bowsprit in the LOA, our friend said this was absurd, as the bowsprit was ahead of the mooring point and therefore did not affect the swinging room. He did win the argument in the end but it took a few years.

Do you really need to ask ? We are talking marinas aren't we and they are hard times. Definitely length overall and heaven help you if you have transom davits and a bowsprit as they are fair game for being included .as well as all part of of LOA. Length Over All.

Ive seen that a lot of boat builders get under the yacht crew manning regulations by keeping the 'Waterline Length' under 24m

The Sirena 88 has a L.O.A of 26,81m but a L.W.L of 23,94m to allow the boat to be owner operated.

So with all boats having a L.O.A and a L.W.L i was curious which definition to officially use

I guess they use the different lengths for different regulations and laws etc

 

[Sticky Fingers]

It's actual LOA, which is not the necessarily the same as registered LOA (mine is Pt1 Registered, the LOA on the registry cert differs by 1.5m from actual for obscure reasons) or builders' LOA which won't include davits or the like.

 

[Seastoke]

When Judy was manager at Woolverstone she was known to go down with a tape measure and check if she thought someone was trying it on! A friend who had a classic yacht with a bowsprit on one of their moorings had a long-standing battle with her as she insisted on including the bowsprit in the LOA, our friend said this was absurd, as the bowsprit was ahead of the mooring point and therefore did not affect the swinging room. He did win the argument in the end but it took a few years.

I bet the captains liked her.

 

[Portofino]

Ive seen that a lot of boat builders get under the yacht crew manning regulations by keeping the 'Waterline Length' under 24m

The Sirena 88 has a L.O.A of 26,81m but a L.W.L of 23,94m to allow the boat to be owner operated.

So with all boats having a L.O.A and a L.W.L i was curious which definition to officially use

I guess they use the different lengths for different regulations and laws etc

Yes they do .
But they are consistent with what they have chosen.

At marinas in the Med it’s the reg cert number they use , all nations to charge when visiting .
But you have to say the beam on the VHF they ask ....so they can find a place that it fits .

Insurance just want the make and model , like Itama 48 .
They might , there may be a box for L in which case just use the brochure , builders , mag test number ...for me 14.8 M fwiw .

The reg cert states 13.1 so I pay lift out fees , yard fees + visiting berth fees on that .....That’s all they have official written down after all .....as I said consistent .


When you come to buy a berth obviously it has to fit .Beam as said is the prime number , some have lee way on L .
This lee way is sometimes written like 10 % extra or alternatively ( if you can park it between the aisles ) as long as neighbours don’t object .

We the old LL trick up to 92 ft of what ever ....they make them with the nose cone removed and bathing platform removed ...fully water tight so the surveyor just does his stuff ...registers it exactly as he see it .23.99 M .
When he’s left the “ extras “ are bolted on ....taking many to just over 90;ft .
Beam has not altered which is the prime number ...but you would be daft on the VHF asking for a 78 Ft berths a few miles out and arriving with a boat with 92 written on its side .

As for the insurance ...it’s a Riva 92 or what ever .
As for settling your account in the marina office ...it’s what ever number the girl sees on the reg cert ...she taps that in .
As for a definitive berth ....you will be looking for sufficient room in front to spin it ......without generating an insurance claim

 

[Bouba]

Hi,

When looking at boat insurance or when booking a berth which length definition should be used?

The L.W.L (Waterline Length) or the L.O.A (Length Overall)?

In the Med it’s neither, it’s the width (and can even mean width plus fenders). Modern Motorboats are fat (I suspect the Navetta is the fattest). They sell/rent berths here that are made for long sleek sailing boats from the 1920’s. So it’s easy to find a long berth but very expensive to find a fat one

 

[Leighb]

I believe some marinas now charge for the “box” , length times beam. Which given the increasing width of modern boats makes sense.

 

[KINGFISHER 9]

When I bought my 12m berth they only wanted the boat's waterline length. Alas the annual 'hole in the water' tax is 12m regardless of the length of the boat. I've had a 40 footer and a 30 footer on the same berth and now the trawler 34 which is 36ft (?) for the same service charge water/elec/showers etc. Actually it's a good bit longer with Hurley Davits on the swim platform now. Fairy nuff I s'pose!

 

[Irish Rover]

I believe some marinas now charge for the “box” , length times beam. Which given the increasing width of modern boats makes sense.

In Turkey the general practice is to charge by the square metre (LOA X Beam) and for annual contracts or longish stays the usually measure the boats themselves.

 

[Portofino]

When I bought my 12m berth they only wanted the boat's waterline length. Alas the annual 'hole in the water' tax is 12m regardless of the length of the boat. I've had a 40 footer and a 30 footer on the same berth and now the trawler 34 which is 36ft (?) for the same service charge water/elec/showers etc. Actually it's a good bit longer with Hurley Davits on the swim platform now. Fairy nuff I s'pose!

Hang on apples + pears .
In my marina berth @ La Napoule you buy shares which translate into a named box you have rights to use / sublet or what ever .
Had 60 with a 12M now 90 with 15 M .
The service charge is proportionally worked out as is your voting power@ AGM s etc on the number of shares .

What you choose to put in your berth if anything makes zero material difference to the service charge / voting rights .

You cant buy and occupy a 60 M berth , put a mastercraft in it and plead some how a reduced maintenance fee on the 60 M shares because the thing has no shore power and you never take a shower etc .


@Bouba ...the more reactionary marinas allow clubbing together of say 10 to buy a leavers spaces and re distribution of its beam amongst them selves.This has happened in la Nap so the beam aspect has evolved with the boats .Fewer number of course as the L of the jetty is carved up into wider places .So are the shares so the marina income does not change .
I,am on 4.8 in La Nap for 15 M so there’s no fender squeezed at all .
They would have been in 1971 as you say a lot slimmer .


We are all about 4.2 M in 4.8 spaces ....great . Winter pic btw .
As you can see the cleats just slide in the jetty rail .

 

[ShaneAtSea]

Hang on apples + pears .
In my marina berth @ La Napoule you buy shares which translate into a named box you have rights to use / sublet or what ever .
Had 60 with a 12M now 90 with 15 M .
The service charge is proportionally worked out as is your voting power@ AGM s etc on the number of shares .

What you choose to put in your berth if anything makes zero material difference to the service charge / voting rights .

You cant buy and occupy a 60 M berth , put a mastercraft in it and plead some how a reduced maintenance fee on the 60 M shares because the thing has no shore power and you never take a shower etc .


@Bouba ...the more reactionary marinas allow clubbing together of say 10 to buy a leavers spaces and re distribution of its beam amongst them selves.This has happened in la Nap so the beam aspect has evolved with the boats .Fewer number of course as the L of the jetty is carved up into wider places .So are the shares so the marina income does not change .
I,am on 4.8 in La Nap for 15 M so there’s no fender squeezed at all .
They would have been in 1971 as you say a lot slimmer .


We are all about 4.2 M in 4.8 spaces ....great . Winter pic btw .
As you can see the cleats just slide in the jetty rail .

Ive flipped the image for you

 

[Sticky Fingers]

That's the first pic of Porto's boat I've ever seen that doesn't have a bevy of lovelies reclining on it..

 

[Bouba]

Ive flipped the image for you

View attachment 96963

It wasn’t flipped. Porto parks sideways to save costs

 

[ShaneAtSea]

It wasn’t flipped. Porto parks sideways to save costs

Looks like he saved costs on his camera too. Either that or he puts vaseline on the lens to add a moody effect ?

 

[dombuckley]

It's actual LOA, which is not the necessarily the same as registered LOA (mine is Pt1 Registered, the LOA on the registry cert differs by 1.5m from actual for obscure reasons) or builders' LOA which won't include davits or the like.

"Registered Length" as used to calculate Registered Tonnage for Part 1, is defined as "the horizontal distance from the forward face of the stem at deck level to the forward face of the sternpost". So if your bows have bulwarks that flare above deck level, then that part is not counted; similarly, the hull aft of the sternpost isn't counted, hence the difference (unless you have plumb-stem hull with a transom-mounted rudder).

 

[Portofino]

"Registered Length" as used to calculate Registered Tonnage for Part 1, is defined as "the horizontal distance from the forward face of the stem at deck level to the forward face of the sternpost". So if your bows have bulwarks that flare above deck level, then that part is not counted; similarly, the hull aft of the sternpost isn't counted, hence the difference (unless you have plumb-stem hull with a transom-mounted rudder).

A picture to decipher ^^^ ....hope you don,t mind .

So the surveyor was on site yesterday ......with his tape measure. Now he’s gone !

 

[Portofino]

That's the first pic of Porto's boat I've ever seen that doesn't have a bevy of lovelies reclining on it..

Ok just for you to ease the withdrawal

 

[Easticks28]

In Turkey the general practice is to charge by the square metre (LOA X Beam) and for annual contracts or longish stays the usually measure the boats themselves.

This is the measure used by the Broads Authority for charging tolls.