Not falling Overboard

[thinwater]

We've had some fun threads on tethers, carabiners, and harnesses. Someone always comes back with "why not focus on not falling over." Well, that is rather obvious, isn't it? An attentive driver and good brakes are far more effective that seatbelts and air bags. Nice to have both, though, in case of mental lapse.

So does anyone have anything novel to add to the knowledge base? The fundamentals include...
* Hold on. This includes being mindful and distracted when moving. It includes staying low when advisable and developing sea legs.
* Good hand rails and toe rails. My last cat had a naked salon roof that was positively stupid when it got rough. There should always be something fat and strong to hold onto, bow to stern. Ideally, they will be strong enough to double as hard points for a tether.

These two should see you through. I've never accidentally fallen against a tether. But there are more...
* Minimize on-deck work. Roller-furling sails help, but if you haven't had a jam or failure, you haven't sailed long enough yet. Sail long enough and you will have both.
* Lead all lines to the cockpit. Helpful , but with downsides. It can also add a lot of spaghetti and a lot of friction. You are going to need to go to the mast on occasion anyway, when something snarls up.
* Use short tethers. Provably effective. Some argue they can't stand up straight. Do you always need to? Second, you harness clip point is only ~ 3.5-4 feet off the ground, the short tether is generally about 3'6", and the jackline stretches up to meet you. I can nearly always walk up right or very close on a short tether. Also, you can often clip elevated hard points (pulpit, wrap a tether around the mast, strong hand rails, a short loop that extends a deck hardpoint).
* Work station tethers. I believe it was the Volvo guys that first popularized these all over the boat. A short tether and snap are fixed where frequently needed. They have observed, correctly I think, that sailors almost never fall when traveling the length of the boat. It is when they stop to do some two-handed job that accidents happen. They arn't holding on and don't see the wave coming.
* Supplemental jacklines, including centerline jacklines. I added a few to my cat, generally very short. Often a 3- to 6-foot length can be rigged to fill in gaps on the foredeck, cabin top, or stern. And then there is the whole centerline debate.
* Adjustable tethers, such as the Petzl Grilion. T
* Tethers with intermediate loops (the OR recognizes these, through they are very seldom seen).
* Double the tether around something to make it shorter.

Any other ideas?

 

[NormanS]

I'm quite happy to reduce the risk by reducing exposure by having a furling genoa, and a furling main. OK, the mizzen is conventional, dropping into a stackpack, but it's small and easily accessible from the after deck, which has a tubular rail all around. So my approach is simply to reduce the risk, by not needing to go forward when underway. In 12 years with this rig, I have not had an unmanageable jam with the furling gear.

 

[Bobc]

Gin.

If you can't stand up, then you can't fall off.

QED

 

[Brent Swain]

Great post! Good ideas .
You forgot the biggie. Crotch high solid lifelines. With them, I have never felt unsafe on deck. After decades of cruising with them, being on a boat without them feels very precarious. That also reduces the movement and loads on the bases, reducing deck leaks on plastic boats.
Crotch high is ideal, easy to get over ,but above ones centre of gravity.
Simplifying furling drastically reduces your chance of anything jamming,or failing ( while also drastically reducing the cost).
Short local tethers are a great idea.
A temporary chest high lifeline , attached to shrouds while at sea, helps a lot. It is easy to take down in port, and interferes with nothing.
For intermediate life lines , 1x19 SS rigging wire is best ,far better than what is normally used for wire lifelines on stock boats.
Plenty around for cheap, or for free.
A wheelhouse and inside steering drastically reduces your chance of man overboard. You simply spend less time on deck in bad weather.

 

[sarabande]

Grippy soles to boots and shoes. I am always amazed at the variety of non-grip soles that appear on boats. Mountaineers have super gummi shoes which they change frequently, but we expect our sailing footwear to last from generation to generation.

Non-slip surfaces on the boat. Why do people spend hours creating a zero-friction varnished surface ? Has anyone heard of non-slip varnish for sale ? Matte isn't, BTW. Also toe rails, hatch covers, hatch windows, cleats, fairleads, in fact anything you might need tobrace your feet on should be non-slip.


Perhaps I don't understand Brent's post in full. A jackstay should be a means of secure transport from e.g. cockpit to mast. At that point, you need a short range tether, not one that will allow you to be washed by a green one along the deck to slam into the cockpit winches. I am also a little apprehensive about his lifeline being at the edge of the boat; this makes it possible to go overboard - a procedure the OP is trying to avoid.

 

[solent clown]

Gin.

If you can't stand up, then you can't fall off.

QED

genius, do you know my wife ?

 

[solent clown]

Great post! Good ideas .
You forgot the biggie. Crotch high solid lifelines. With them, I have never felt unsafe on deck. After decades of cruising with them, being on a boat without them feels very precarious. That also reduces the movement and loads on the bases, reducing deck leaks on plastic boats.
Crotch high is ideal, easy to get over ,but above ones centre of gravity.
Simplifying furling drastically reduces your chance of anything jamming,or failing ( while also drastically reducing the cost).
Short local tethers are a great idea.
A temporary chest high lifeline , attached to shrouds while at sea, helps a lot. It is easy to take down in port, and interferes with nothing.
For intermediate life lines , 1x19 SS rigging wire is best ,far better than what is normally used for wire lifelines on stock boats.
Plenty around for cheap, or for free.
A wheelhouse and inside steering drastically reduces your chance of man overboard. You simply spend less time on deck in bad weather.

what do you mean by solid lifeline, a solid tube or rod rather than a wire? that sounds like a good idea

 

[[70521]]

YouTube is a wonderful thing, Go to 30 seconds in! OK they are racing, well they look like they are racing and as everybody knows I don't race.

I was shown the "human preventer", at 30 seconds, once on a boat that I was on. I now know why cruisers never use the technique!

 

[solent clown]

YouTube is a wonderful thing, Go to 30 seconds in! OK they are racing, well they look like they are racing and as everybody knows I don't race.

I was shown the "human preventer", at 30 seconds, once on a boat that I was on. I now know why cruisers never use the technique!

wouldnt give him many points for his entry, but he did it with gusto

 

[[70521]]

wouldnt give him many points for his entry, but he did it with gusto

I don't think he had much option!

 

[thinwater]

Grippy soles to boots and shoes. I am always amazed at the variety of non-grip soles that appear on boats. Mountaineers have super gummi shoes which they change frequently, but we expect our sailing footwear to last from generation to generation.

Non-slip surfaces on the boat. Why do people spend hours creating a zero-friction varnished surface ? Has anyone heard of non-slip varnish for sale ? Matte isn't, BTW. Also toe rails, hatch covers, hatch windows, cleats, fairleads, in fact anything you might need tobrace your feet on should be non-slip.


Perhaps I don't understand Brent's post in full. A jackstay should be a means of secure transport from e.g. cockpit to mast. At that point, you need a short range tether, not one that will allow you to be washed by a green one along the deck to slam into the cockpit winches. I am also a little apprehensive about his lifeline being at the edge of the boat; this makes it possible to go overboard - a procedure the OP is trying to avoid.

The climbing shoe parallel is interesting. As near as I can tell, unlike deck shoes, they don't get hard with age. The reason they are replaced is simply that they wear down. They also leave the most dramatic black heal marks you have ever seen! I say this because they do sell what they call approach shoes that use the same rubber, but with a sneaker upper and a sneaker wedge sole. They grip great, but your deck won't stay white, not at all. Perhaps if they could make the compound white there would be a market.

Varnish with salt is a nice trick. Sprinkle coarse salt on the last thick, wet coat, and then just wash the salt away when dry. It doesn't wear forever, but it is super easy to refinish.

 

[thinwater]

... I am also a little apprehensive about his lifeline being at the edge of the boat; this makes it possible to go overboard - a procedure the OP is trying to avoid.

To my knowledge, VERY few people fall off to windward, though it can happen working with a symmetrical chute during a jibe. Very rare, however. I do not believe I have heard of a case involving a tether.

Also remember that the Clipper accident happened right at the bow. The jackline routing would not have made more than a 6" difference one way or the other. The second sailor had a short tether, and that worked.

 

[thinwater]

YouTube is a wonderful thing, Go to 30 seconds in! OK they are racing, well they look like they are racing and as everybody knows I don't race.

I was shown the "human preventer", at 30 seconds, once on a boat that I was on. I now know why cruisers never use the technique!

Notice in several cases that when they stuffed a wave, people flew forward. This is why I favor ending jacklines about 4 feet from the bow. With a 2 meter tether you can still reach the bow standing tall with the tether 4 feet behind you. then clip to the pulpit with the short arm, or something equivalent. But all being clipped with a long tether at the bow will do is keep you deeper in the bow wave.

 

[prv]

Has anyone heard of non-slip varnish for sale ?

Not ready-mixed, but you can buy grip granules that you mix in with it to give a non-slip result.

Pete

 

[mainsail1]

Why take extensive precautions for something that is unlikely to happen to a cruising sailor???...... and even if it did there is a good chance that everyone will live to tell the tale without the aid of tethers and all that paraphernalia.
I do wonder whether the cure is worse than the problem.

 

[solent clown]

The climbing shoe parallel is interesting. As near as I can tell, unlike deck shoes, they don't get hard with age. The reason they are replaced is simply that they wear down. They also leave the most dramatic black heal marks you have ever seen! I say this because they do sell what they call approach shoes that use the same rubber, but with a sneaker upper and a sneaker wedge sole. They grip great, but your deck won't stay white, not at all. Perhaps if they could make the compound white there would be a market.

Varnish with salt is a nice trick. Sprinkle coarse salt on the last thick, wet coat, and then just wash the salt away when dry. It doesn't wear forever, but it is super easy to refinish.

we use cheap windsurfing shoes, seem to grip fine, it does not matter of they get soaking wet, and they are very light. Downside is they are thin on the bottom and not great over gravel and rough surfaces. I wear them with socks and feet seem to stay warm, Karen wears them without socks and always has cold feet.

 

[snowleopard]

Why take extensive precautions for something that is unlikely to happen to a cruising sailor???...... and even if it did there is a good chance that everyone will live to tell the tale without the aid of tethers and all that paraphernalia.
I do wonder whether the cure is worse than the problem.

I think there is a good chance it will happen to many of us over a lifetime of sailing. It has happened to me and it happened to Eric Tabarly, one of the greatest sailors of the 20th century.

There is a common assumption that as long as you aren't separated from the boat, you will be OK. That may not be the case. A few years ago a member of a 2-man crew on the ARC went over and was alongside at the end of his tether. His crew mate was unable to lift him back aboard and he died, still tethered alongside. The questions we should ask ourselves are:

- Can we arrange harnesses and jackstays so we are still on board when the line comes taut (seldom possible, especially on monohulls)

- Do we have a mechanism for lifting an MOB, whether tethered or not, back on board and have we tested it?

 

[GrahamM376]

There is a common assumption that as long as you aren't separated from the boat, you will be OK. That may not be the case. A few years ago a member of a 2-man crew on the ARC went over and was alongside at the end of his tether. His crew mate was unable to lift him back aboard and he died, still tethered alongside. - Do we have a mechanism for lifting an MOB, whether tethered or not, back on board and have we tested it?

Life jacket tethers can turn the wearer on their backs and tow them under at speed, it's also happened with a cruising couple, wife tried to haul him up instead of stopping the boat or cutting him loose.

We do have MOB tackle, basically the same as a main sheet tackle with a sling on one end and a snap shackle on the other which can be attached to boom end or halyard, never practiced though.

With furling genoa, main with lazyjacks and all lines led aft, no need to leave the cockpit which, being higher, less likely to be washed out of.

 

[[70521]]

we use cheap windsurfing shoes, seem to grip fine, it does not matter of they get soaking wet, and they are very light. Downside is they are thin on the bottom and not great over gravel and rough surfaces. I wear them with socks and feet seem to stay warm, Karen wears them without socks and always has cold feet.

Take a look in Lidl/Aldi they often do a windsurfing shoe for a few quid. They have never marked the deck and stick to it pretty well.

 

[peteK]

In one of those clips the skipper was more interested in not losing his place in the race than recovering a mob,he never slowed the boat at all.