Northwest Passage

st599 said:
The other boat in the group made it.
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Speaking to Jimmy Cornell before hand he had a fixed date, by which time if the ice hadn't cleared he would turn around. In his research he found many crews postponed their turn around date and ended up wintering up there because the didn't turn back when they still could, staying just one more day because, because, because....

Jimmy found the two most common reasons for abandoning through the passage the trip are: indecision and mechanical failure. Make a plan and stick to it, and consider an alternative means of mechanical propulsion.

Jimmy had an electric outboard which could be attached onto the transom of Aventura, powered by solar and wind power. Have a read of his blog.
 
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snooks said:
Speaking to Jimmy Cornell before hand he had a fixed date, by which time if the ice hadn't cleared he would turn around. In his research he found many crews postponed their turn around date and ended up wintering up there because the didn't turn back when they still could, staying just one more day because, because, because....

Jimmy found the two most common reasons for abandoning through the passage the trip are: indecision and mechanical failure. Make a plan and stick to it, and consider an alternative means of mechanical propulsion.

Jimmy had an electric outboard which could be attached onto the transom of Aventura, powered by solar and wind power. Have a read of his blog.
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I know he did, doesn't alter the fact that the other boat, plus one if Jimmy's crew, made it round.
 
Eyore said:
Your average AWB would have lasted for about 5 minutes of that abuse.....................as for wood:eek:
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Fram, Nansen's ship which crossed the Arctic ocean frozen into the pack ice, was of wooden construction, as were most other famous ships from the heroic age of polar exploration (Erebus, Terror, Discovery, Terra Nova to name but a few). She was designed by the well-known naval architect Colin Archer. Admittedly she is highly specialized and well-engineered, but she is still wood. Wood actually has advantages for polar work; it is a better insulator than most other materials, and of course repair work can be carried out with a simple tool kit. There are other advantages in that different woods, with different properties, can be used to meet the varying engineering needs in the ship. Fram exemplifies that.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
Fram, Nansen's ship which crossed the Arctic ocean frozen into the pack ice, was of wooden construction, as were most other famous ships from the heroic age of polar exploration (Erebus, Terror, Discovery, Terra Nova to name but a few). She was designed by the well-known naval architect Colin Archer. Admittedly she is highly specialized and well-engineered, but she is still wood. Wood actually has advantages for polar work; it is a better insulator than most other materials, and of course repair work can be carried out with a simple tool kit. There are other advantages in that different woods, with different properties, can be used to meet the varying engineering needs in the ship. Fram exemplifies that.
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Absolutely agree, but I am talking in the context of wooden yachts as opposed to massively heavy oak on oak sawn framed construction with such close frame spacing as to be virtually impregnable.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
There are other advantages in that different woods, with different properties, can be used to meet the varying engineering needs in the ship. Fram exemplifies that.
Click to expand...

The Discovery in Dundee is well worth a visit. From memory, they used something like five different woods for different structural functions in the hull. She was built in Dundee because they specifically wanted a wooden ship for ice work and Dundee, thanks to the whaling industry, was the last place in Britain which could build a wooden ship of that size.
 
Fram was a special design though. She was especially designed to ride up above the ice when hemmed in by it. It was Nansen' plan to reach the N pole by drifting on the ice over the top of it. The idea was good but he didn't go far enough east before he turned into the ice. His book Farthest North is a cracking tale.
Discovery alas was an awful ship. She was not a stable vessel and she could only make 6 knots max. The expertise of Colin Archer and his designs were ignored and the boat had to be rebuilt below the waterline in New Zealand. It's worth noting that it was never even considered by Scot for his second (and last) expedition. Read The Last Place on Earth by Roland Hungerford for more about it.
Mike
 
Eyore said:
Absolutely agree, but I am talking in the context of wooden yachts as opposed to massively heavy oak on oak sawn framed construction with such close frame spacing as to be virtually impregnable.
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The good thing about cold moulded construction is that you get all the benefits of wood without the downsides of poor dimensional stability and propensity to rot. It is incredibly strong for its weight and easy to work and shape. It is insulating and both impact and fatigue resistant. The hull layup I am planing should be incredibly strong, particularly at the bow and shoulders.

On top of this I am planing a fore and aft collision bulkhead as well as watertight internal bulkheads and buoyancy chambers. I have learnt from the mistakes of my Great grandfather who worked on an ill fated ship in the yard in Belfast and so my bulkheads will be full height. I have not decided yet on whether I should stick to glass fibre in the final abrasion layers or more exotic material. One problem with mixing fibres is that they can compete and thus all the strain can go into the least elastic fibre first causing it to fail or de-adhere to the epoxy. I have also considered a sacrificial layer but my gut tells me this would be overkill.
 
Vegable said:
Discovery alas was an awful ship. She was not a stable vessel and she could only make 6 knots max. The expertise of Colin Archer and his designs were ignored and the boat had to be rebuilt below the waterline in New Zealand. It's worth noting that it was never even considered by Scot for his second (and last) expedition.
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My recollection from the Discovery museum is that Scott wanted her but the Hudson Bay Company, to whom she had been sold, wouldn't release her. She only stopped in New Zealand for three weeks on the way south, so no time for rebuilding, though they may have done some repairs there on the way north. She does seem to have been prone to rolling but that in turns seems to have been due in part to the large amount of deck cargo she carried, including a lot more coal than they had expected to need.
 
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Ewan Southby-Taiyour is an expert on high latitude sailing. Eg he uses one candle inside the boat for heat in winter. His boat is or was a modified Tradewind 35 Black Velvet which had a square sail for downwind sailing. Try googling him.
 
Sybarite said:
Ewan Southby-Taiyour is an expert on high latitude sailing. Eg he uses one candle inside the boat for heat in winter. His boat is or was a modified Tradewind 35 Black Velvet which had a square sail for downwind sailing. Try googling him.
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He's sold it, as I discovered when I offered to buy it off him..
 
An exciting project, I'm jealous!

Most things i would reccomend are covered already but i thought i'd emphasise the bits we found from our trip to the south this time last year

1) Ugly i know but deck shelters are brilliant - shelter for on watch crew, a living room with a view at anchor, and stop the weather ever coming into the boat, like a porch!

2) All the boats doing the Antarctic run year after year use drip feed diesel heaters that they never turn off, are simple and elegant and relatively efficient. Bus heater types are just too fiddly and we found didn't like to work when it got cold, which is my general experience of them over the years.

3) Get in touch with Andrew Wilkes he's a lovely, eloquent, quiet spoken genius. I can put you in touch if you like, PM me.

4) The guys at High Latitudes will give you professional advice, are approachable and friendly, and i know they kitted out a plastic Oyster with 'ice plates' around the bow and waterline for dealing with brash, i seem to remember a yachting world article about it...

Keep us up to date!

James
 
Thanks for the information and I love the videos.

Brokethebox, what do you mean by deck shelters?
Is it the bimini type of thing with sides or do you mean something more substantial?

I have been looking in to heaters because there are lots of people who all sing the praise of their choice and slag off all others. It makes it hard to get an objective opinion. I like my current ebby hot air thing and it has never broken but I have heard they can fail in very low temperatures. My current thoughts are that some kind of ebby type thing that also heats water would do as a 'sophisticated' system for general use and then some kind of backup, perhaps a diesel drip thing or a solid fuel system. I have to admit the solid fuel has an aesthetic advantage and also the advantage of using scrap that you find and burning rubbish (not strictly advised). The drip feed things have the advantage of being more or less automatic and running on a fuel which is already stored in abundance and easy to buy.

I will look up the ice plates. I think it might be overkill but I would like to explore this option. Thanks for the kind offers. I would like to keep this low key at present but am likely to call on you all again closer to the time when I need more specific information. I have so much to do prior to being ready to work on the boat but as soon as I start I expect I will be posting regular updates on here to get more advice about the best ways to proceed.
 
Read Bob Sheptons autobiography-addicted to adventure- he did it in his Westerly Discus
 
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