sailorman
Well-known member
But where will bespoke tanks fit
Northshore in trouble???
- Thread starter l'escargot
- Start date
jimmy_the_builder
Well-known member
Into the hulls of the boats for which they were designed, when the phoenix company buys the designs and the part-built boats...?
Cheers
Jimmy
E39mad
Well-known member
I feel sorry for the employees some of which may have been there for 20 + years and also for the clients who have boats in build. Not a lot you can do with a half finished craft.
Some serious investment in plant and tooling during the last 10 years.
Some serious investment in plant and tooling during the last 10 years.
Ex-SolentBoy
New member
I do not know what contracts Northshore used, but I have bought several new boats, and have always been offered the contracts as approved by the British Marine Federation. Under those contracts, your boat, and anything purchased for your boat is your property, and not the property of the builder or the liquidator. Apart from convenience, this is the reason why boat inventory at boat builders is labelled and normally stored on shelves marked for the specific boat.
In the unfortunate situation where a builder is in trouble, I have assumed that you can acceess your own property and remove it if you wish. The basic concept of these contracts is that your "asset" should roughly equate what you have paid, so the risk is little.
A few generic comments, not specific to this situation (before i get lambasted again).
Most builders contracts have a significant final stage payment on commissioning and delivery. If you look at your boatbuilders accounts and the stated gross margin percentage significantly exceeds the percentage of your final payment, then you should think what that means in terms of the security of your asset.
Your boatbuilder wants to finish your boat. That's really the only time he makes money.
The best people to finish your boat are normally the people who designed I and who have built other similar models as they will know how to minimise the hours involved in construction.
In the unfortunate situation where a builder is in trouble, I have assumed that you can acceess your own property and remove it if you wish. The basic concept of these contracts is that your "asset" should roughly equate what you have paid, so the risk is little.
A few generic comments, not specific to this situation (before i get lambasted again).
Most builders contracts have a significant final stage payment on commissioning and delivery. If you look at your boatbuilders accounts and the stated gross margin percentage significantly exceeds the percentage of your final payment, then you should think what that means in terms of the security of your asset.
Your boatbuilder wants to finish your boat. That's really the only time he makes money.
The best people to finish your boat are normally the people who designed I and who have built other similar models as they will know how to minimise the hours involved in construction.
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Oscarpop
New member
I talked to lester abbott at one of the boat shows.
More than anything he seemed like a down to earth but really canny business man.
i cannot see that the yard will close permanently.
We went down there at least ten times last year while in build.
The place was full. They had loads of boats being built and we had to wait 3 months to get a build slot.
During the 3 months of the build, every time we went down there , there was another boat being started.
So, the order book was full.
The business model seemed sound.
i am sure that this is a way of simply asset stripping
More than anything he seemed like a down to earth but really canny business man.
i cannot see that the yard will close permanently.
We went down there at least ten times last year while in build.
The place was full. They had loads of boats being built and we had to wait 3 months to get a build slot.
During the 3 months of the build, every time we went down there , there was another boat being started.
So, the order book was full.
The business model seemed sound.
i am sure that this is a way of simply asset stripping
Oscarpop
New member
Same with Northshore. You own the boat during build in case of liquidation.
I think that the final payment was 25% a week or so before handover.
mlthomas
New member
Southerly.com still seems to be advertising, even updating items on the main page on the 15th April - Northshore website re-routes to Southerly
Not implying anything - but you would have expected the website to have gone and not update on the 15th if the yard closed on the 12th
Not implying anything - but you would have expected the website to have gone and not update on the 15th if the yard closed on the 12th
Phoenix of Hamble
Active member
Assuming the receivers can quickly get hold of the website/domain login or site provider/designer details (unlikely!)... anyway, if they've got 'going concern' in mind, then I doubt they'd shut it down anyway
sarabande
Well-known member
Seems that Sunchalk (the parent company) paid £450 in tax last year. and had £1,521,407 in cash reserves with a gross profit of of £2,337,594. Other associated sub-companies do not seem desperately negative on the assets/liabilities ratio.
The hypothesis that NS will rise again seems tenable if the will to remain in yacht building is still there inthe owner's mind.
The hypothesis that NS will rise again seems tenable if the will to remain in yacht building is still there inthe owner's mind.
Koeketiene
Well-known member
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
I'm very disappointed to have been proved right. Sympathy to anyone with a boat in build or in brokerage with Northshore, they're in for a whole lot of hassle and expense. Sympathy too to the suppliers who are very unlikely to see a penny back, or their goods.
Blueboatman
Well-known member
I have a very good friend who worked for them and managed to get out quite recently..
It would be pointless to say ha, woe, fingers crossed or more really.
Surprised given the OPs professional qualifications and experience and track record in business, boats aside. that this was treated quite so dismissively . Makes people look silly( and no one likes that to they?)
It would be pointless to say ha, woe, fingers crossed or more really.
Surprised given the OPs professional qualifications and experience and track record in business, boats aside. that this was treated quite so dismissively . Makes people look silly( and no one likes that to they?)
Sandgrounder
Active member
Sadly not. under English Law, except for real property i.e. land and trusts, property passes at the point of agreement not when payment is made. This means that when supplier x delivers the product s/he no longer owns, s/he has no right to recover. This is the reason why the sites of bankrupt builder/ developers are usually secured and have on-site security; to prevent the removal of materials delivered and even installed. It is a brutal business!
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Kelpie
Well-known member
I would have thought that once installed, the item accedes to the main piece of property- well that's what happens in Scots law anyway.
Tranona
Well-known member
Yes, the big losers will be the suppliers who are unsecured creditors. I know two for whom they are a big customer and are owed money.
As Solent Boy says customers of boats in build will have BMF contracts which give them title for boats in build. However, they will still have the problem of getting them finished. I expect the administrator will be working with these customers to see if they can finish the boats if it helps realise some of the assets in the company. It is unlikely that brokerage customers will lose as their funds (which will be deposits or any final payments in process) will be protected in a client account. Hopefully those who have their boats placed there on brokerage as part payment on their new boat will have kept title to their boat.
As Solent Boy says customers of boats in build will have BMF contracts which give them title for boats in build. However, they will still have the problem of getting them finished. I expect the administrator will be working with these customers to see if they can finish the boats if it helps realise some of the assets in the company. It is unlikely that brokerage customers will lose as their funds (which will be deposits or any final payments in process) will be protected in a client account. Hopefully those who have their boats placed there on brokerage as part payment on their new boat will have kept title to their boat.
Bosun Higgs
N/A
I wonder what the structure of Northshore is these days. I got to the final stage of signing a contract for a 35 just after they introduced the boat and not long after the present owners took over. I pulled out when I found that the land was owned by a totally seperate company from the one that would be building my boat, so that had the boatbuilding bit gone under, there would have been no money from the sale of the property to compensate me. Not an unusual arrangement and TBH probably the same one that I would have put in place had I been taking over Northshore with my money .
The land at Northshore has to be worth a huge amount if they can get planning permission for housing - why would they want to re-open as a boatbuilder given the history of the boatbuilding industry not just here but elsewhere. There isnt a single builder I can think of who has not either gone bust or had very difficult times and been saved by their govt. Buying a boat is a discretionary spend and given that despite G Broon the economy here and elsewhere is cyclical, boatbuilding will always cycle from boom to bust.
The land at Northshore has to be worth a huge amount if they can get planning permission for housing - why would they want to re-open as a boatbuilder given the history of the boatbuilding industry not just here but elsewhere. There isnt a single builder I can think of who has not either gone bust or had very difficult times and been saved by their govt. Buying a boat is a discretionary spend and given that despite G Broon the economy here and elsewhere is cyclical, boatbuilding will always cycle from boom to bust.
sailorman
Well-known member
How about the double Queens award to industry winner, Oyster Yachts.
As is the UK construction industry
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rwoofer
Active member
This sums up why business ethics have been gone to the wind in this day and age. By deliberately ring-fencing assets essential to the operation of the business, you are deliberately transferring risk to customers without letting them know. The fact that you did your homework and didn't buy, only supports this. You saw this making the business more fragile, more likely to harm customers as well as removing an incentive from the directors to manage the business well.
Talulah
Well-known member
I wonder who this belongs to:
http://www.southerly.com/news/new-southerly-535-launching-in-summer-2013.html
It's off to the States. (Well would have been.)
http://www.southerly.com/news/new-southerly-535-launching-in-summer-2013.html
It's off to the States. (Well would have been.)
Garold
Well-known member
I guess it's possibly now a nice hull for someone who wants to do their own fit out. Very sad.
