Northshore in trouble???

[lustyd]

I really can't see that at all. People with that sort of money aren't stupid (well most of them) and any body with an ounce of sense knows that all boat builders are potentially at risk in the current climate and would obtain the necessary assurances before placing an order.

Then why would those people need to hear an unsubstantiated rumour on a website to give them notice that the company may fold? the argument works both ways, but one of those ways could ruin many employees livelihoods and hence the objections. As it happens those people were already redundant but we'd be having a different discussion if the company was in the black but in 6 months they went under.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Any tech business that got wiped out by Amazon wasn't a very good one to start with.... a good hosting business would, for example, have lots of differentiation compared to Amazon (lots of them doing just fine at the moment), or be fleet enough of foot to change direction slightly to remain ahead of the game.

For traditional business, not used to working at 'web pace' then I agree, its a harder thing.... but no tech business will survive if it can't adapt and change faster than the big guys.

 

[Ammonite]

Then why would those people need to hear an unsubstantiated rumour on a website to give them notice that the company may fold? the argument works both ways, but one of those ways could ruin many employees livelihoods and hence the objections. As it happens those people were already redundant but we'd be having a different discussion if the company was in the black but in 6 months they went under.

I have just edited my thread to make that clear. The heads up the OP gave would only have a negative impact on NS if they did not get satisfactory answers to their questions and NS could also have put this to bed if untrue with one post on this forum

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

No not missing that at all. All we're saying is that even if they had been fine, a thread like that on a forum like this would mean they got effectively no orders in the foreseeable future which would absolutely ensure they went down the tubes because even a hint at losing the deposit would stop any sensible person ordering one. Obviously it was done out of concern for people losing money on a new boat, and I have every sympathy for those people but I don't think it was worth the risk before he had evidence.

Thanks to all the supporting posters on the forum, and pm's.

To the continuing detractors.....

You may think that my concern was people losing money on a boat. It might have been concern about employees and suppliers.

You may think I had no evidence. I might have had some, but did not feel this forum was the place to air it.

You may think I post things on this forum without considering the consequences of my actions.

In the words of Francis Urquhart: "You might think that, I couldn't possibly comment."

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Thanks to all the supporting posters on the forum, and pm's.

To the continuing detractors.....

You may think that my concern was people losing money on a boat. It might have been concern about employees and suppliers.

You may think I had no evidence. I might have had some, but did not feel this forum was the place to air it.

You may think I post things on this forum without considering the consequences of my actions.

In the words of Francis Urquhart: "You might think that, I couldn't possibly comment."

I suspected as much....

 

[lustyd]

You may think that my concern was people losing money on a boat. It might have been concern about employees and suppliers.

You may think I had no evidence. I might have had some, but did not feel this forum was the place to air it.

You may think I post things on this forum without considering the consequences of my actions.

In the words of Francis Urquhart: "You might think that, I couldn't possibly comment."

I think you're a senior enough member of the forum that very few of us thought it was malicious or completely unsubstantiated. The problem is that because you didn't (or couldn't) say anything to back up the claim it then needs to be treated as rumour. I fully expected someone to come along with evidence on the first thread but that didn't happen and Google turned up nothing either so the only response in a responsible forum is to pull the thread (blimey I sound like a mod!) until evidence is uncovered.

 

[dylanwinter]

yes, the web has created a really level playing field. All of the businesses which went under when Amazon and Google got into hosting probably think so. As do the people who made ebook readers before the web giant Amazon got into the game, or those making phones before Google decided to buy the market.

now you put it that way.....

spare a thought for the scribes wholost their jobs when Caxton came along

or the hostlers when stephenson did his stuff

or paper and ink hacks - like me - who lost jobs when technology changed and failed to adapt to the new world

I am always worried about those who seek to slow or control the spread of information for their own commercial gain

amazon has reduced the price of books - tough for bookshops - good for the people who like reading books though

it has certainly helped to reduce the price of electronics - tough for jessops employees - good for buyers of cameras though

So, once the workforce has been told and sent home the sooner information goes out the better it is for everyone except the receivers

imagine if you are a small supplier and sent a truck full of product to the factory and it was signed in

tough world

D

 

[Oscarpop]

Before I put my deposit down on my Southerly last year, I downloaded the last years accounts from companies house.

mostly to make sure they were in good health.

as far as I could make out thay had 5-7 million lying about in different accounts.

i think that they will strip the assets out of northshore and re open as another company.

reduced liabilites and streamline the whole shebang

 

[lustyd]

Any tech business that got wiped out by Amazon wasn't a very good one to start with.... a good hosting business would, for example, have lots of differentiation compared to Amazon (lots of them doing just fine at the moment), or be fleet enough of foot to change direction slightly to remain ahead of the game.

For traditional business, not used to working at 'web pace' then I agree, its a harder thing.... but no tech business will survive if it can't adapt and change faster than the big guys.

Actually I was referring to Amazon EC2, S3 and Microsoft Azure which have wiped out almost all of the normal sized hosting companies who traditionally provided outsourced IT. These other companies didn't and couldn't find a billion dollars to create globally resilient datacenters with sufficient spare capacity to allow flexible contracts to millions of customers, only the very very wealthy companies could do that in their "level playing field". Amazon went on to destroy any competition in the ebook business by selling their hardware for less than it cost to make to ensure they controlled eBooks for the foreseeable future because their device will only read their eBooks unlike the competitors who supported the standard ePub format.
What I am not saying, is that Amazon didn't deserve to do well as a book shop. They had a much better business model and still do when compared to others. Using the funds they collected from that business to decimate other markets, however, is not a level playing field and no amount of hippy nonsense about openness and low entry cost can alter that.

 

[jbweston]

Are you suggesting they were "Over Trading"

No.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

I think you're a senior enough member of the forum that very few of us thought it was malicious or completely unsubstantiated. The problem is that because you didn't (or couldn't) say anything to back up the claim it then needs to be treated as rumour. I fully expected someone to come along with evidence on the first thread but that didn't happen and Google turned up nothing either so the only response in a responsible forum is to pull the thread (blimey I sound like a mod!) until evidence is uncovered.

I was happy with the pulling (never thought I would say that in public. )

 

[lustyd]

amazon has reduced the price of books

Kind of, yes. They are, however, trying to price fix on the eBooks which their users are tied to with Kindle. They are also attempting to override copyright law by claiming the rights to scan any book and release it as long as the owner doesn't complain directly to them. They did this by using their massive profit and influence to gain complete control of the eBook market. Luckily, book readers are not as daft as they had hoped and most are in fact quite educated which has caused sufficient resistance both to Kindle through purchasing habits, and through legal objections to the copyright stuff that they might not succeed.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Yeah, believe you me, i'm pretty familiar with EC2, Azure, SF.com hosting offerings etc etc.... still space for others though that offer service wraps that Amazon won't or can't.... never for example seen EC2 bring together a Tech architect with MM or SD SAP skills or a Hana integration specialist with scalable hosting as a service offer.... sure, the mid tier hosters, getting by on big VM farms with a bit of MS SPLA thrown in have suffered, but mainly as they didn't move quickly enough.

(sorry for the Fred Drift!)

 

[daveyw]

i think that they will strip the assets out of northshore and re open as another company.

reduced liabilites and streamline the whole shebang

So when they reopen will the guy from tectanks, who's owed for delivered products and never been paid, continue to supply the reincarnated company?

 

[l'escargot]

So when they reopen will the guy from tectanks, who's owed for delivered products and never been paid, continue to supply the reincarnated company?

Probably, I expect he needs the business, but I bet he will want cash on delivery and his prices will have a higher margin.

 

[sailorman]

Probably, I expect he needs the business, but I bet he will want cash on delivery and his prices will have a higher margin.

For me "Pro-Forma" only & a deposit with order

 

[dylanwinter]

Kind of, yes. They are, however, trying to price fix on the eBooks which their users are tied to with Kindle. They are also attempting to override copyright law by claiming the rights to scan any book and release it as long as the owner doesn't complain directly to them. They did this by using their massive profit and influence to gain complete control of the eBook market. Luckily, book readers are not as daft as they had hoped and most are in fact quite educated which has caused sufficient resistance both to Kindle through purchasing habits, and through legal objections to the copyright stuff that they might not succeed.

even amazon cannot control the flow of information- and all companies seek to control their markets

I have written two books - they sold for £15 each - they did about 15,000 copies a piece

as the author I got under £1 a pop

I have no idea how the ebook finances work out

but I assume that eventually a higher proportion of the money will go to authors and less to the poor blokes who cut down trees, pulp woodfibre and run the presses - as well as the luvvies of the publishing industry

if anyone want the books I have copies I am happy to put into jiffy bags

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/scuttlebutt/a-hack-goes-west-oregon-trail-on-horseback/

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/blogs/a-hack-in-the-borders-episodes-1-and-4/

as for web hosting

KTL is now with Amazon s3 - my hosting costs have gone from £100 a month with fasthosts to $17 a month with amazon while site traffic has risen

I got a good kicking from Google - and they con tinue to place adverts on my films - but that is a good thing as they host the films for free and people get so pished off with the adverts that they are preparede tio pay for ad free downloads or dvds

so...the web is and will continue to be a game changer

stay nimble or it will eat the slow

Dylan

 

[Ammonite]

Before I put my deposit down on my Southerly last year, I downloaded the last years accounts from companies house.

mostly to make sure they were in good health.

as far as I could make out thay had 5-7 million lying about in different accounts.

i think that they will strip the assets out of northshore and re open as another company.

reduced liabilites and streamline the whole shebang

I'm sure you are right but I'm not sure that's the sort of company I would want to support even if I could. Now if the directors had re-mortgaged their houses and done every thing they could to pay off their suppliers before rebuilding the company that would be a different story.....let's hope its the latter

 

[lustyd]

I have written two books - they sold for £15 each - they did about 15,000 copies a piece

as the author I got under £1 a pop

Unless Amazon scan it and sell as an eBook in which case you get £0 unless you specifically ask for it, having been made aware that they are illegally selling your IP.

You're right, the hosting is much cheaper and that's not a bad thing at all. My point was that it's hardly a level playing field when you need a billion dollars to even start to compete. It's also not a level playing field when you can't self publish because Amazon will simply start selling your book regardless and wait for you to ask for your cut. Your cut in this case will be whatever they set the rate to.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

So when they reopen will the guy from tectanks, who's owed for delivered products and never been paid, continue to supply the reincarnated company?

I would have thought that the delivered products are still his property until they've been paid for, and if they haven't yet been installed into any yachts, he should be able to reclaim them. Once they are installed then as I understand it he can't remove them, regardless of whether or not they've been paid for.

Cheers
Jimmy