Non working visa EU

[westernman]

Have any of you managed to get your passport stamped when traveling from one EU Shengen country to another by road, rail or plane?

The trains don't stop at the border, there is no passport control person who on the train and by road there is nowhere to stop at the border either. When I cross from France to Spain there is nowhere legal to stop close to the border and I cross that border at 110 km/h.

Even when leaving the EU going into a non-EU country such as Andorra there is no passport checks. But there is often the customs prowling the roads into France or Spain.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Sadlerfin... With a few conditions a 3rd country citizen on a 3rd country boat can sail indefinitely in the EU through French, Spanish, Italian, Greek. Portuguese and Maltese water under International Maritime Organization's 1965 Convention rules. This means all on board are registered as 'in transit' on the crew list and are therefore not in the Schengen zone and not using Schengen days. The is no requirement for proof of financial means, health insurance or any form of residency or registration. And no local tax implications.

Different countries have different processes for doing this so you need to do some homework before you set out. Some require you to have a agent. Some countries require you to be paid crew. These 6 countries do DO NOT. The easiest country to deal with is Malta and the process is outlined on Noonsite. Greece is just a little more onerous where you're advise to have a agent.

If you're serious PM me and I'll give you an agent contact in Greece and some background info to get you started on the homework.

To answer your questions:

1, Would a Marina contract be acceptable as proof of address?
NO. Not needed.
2, If I wanted to stay no more than 6 months which country would be best?
You're not becoming resident. However, some countries require you to change vessel master every 6 month. In Greece, for example you must change the crew list every 6 month to show a different master. Both need to have ICC's or similar. Otherwise shuffle between Malta and Greece. ... not the only solution, but the one I know.
3, Do I have to pay tax locally on my UK income with these visas I'm told in Portugal at least I would not
No.

Article II section 3 of the Convention states .....

(3) The provisions of the present Convention do not apply to warships or pleasure yachts

https://cil.nus.edu.sg/wp-content/u...itation-of-International-Maritime-Traffic.pdf

I guess if you are a superyacht with paid crew and paying passengers then you would count as a ship, but there is no formal definition of "pleasure yacht" in the Convention, leaving it up to interpretation by the state in which you find yourself.

IMO, I would not rely on the Convention to provide any coverage for a cruising yacht that isn't engaged in the carrying of cargo or paying passengers. Any country you visit just has to decide your boat is a pleasure yacht and you're subject to Schengen rules, TA, or VAT and everything that goes with being a tourist from a 3rd country.

How do you get round Article II section 3?

 

[goeasy123]

Article II section 3 of the Convention states .....



https://cil.nus.edu.sg/wp-content/u...itation-of-International-Maritime-Traffic.pdf

I guess if you are a superyacht with paid crew and paying passengers then you would count as a ship, but there is no formal definition of "pleasure yacht" in the Convention, leaving it up to interpretation by the state in which you find yourself.

IMO, I would not rely on the Convention to provide any coverage for a cruising yacht that isn't engaged in the carrying of cargo or paying passengers. Any country you visit just has to decide your boat is a pleasure yacht and you're subject to Schengen rules, TA, or VAT and everything that goes with being a tourist from a 3rd country.

How do you get round Article II section 3?

There is the law, and then there's custom and practice.

THE COUNTRY gets round II.3 by agreeing with a boats master that all on board are crew-in-transit. Then the relevant 'Recommended Practices' in sections D and F apply.

Malta take the view that pleasure yachts can carry crew in transit as a matter of course. With the correct documentation, you can be in Maltese waters with reference to national law that the crew are not in Schengen. You are unlikely to get challenged by Maltese officials as they have been instructed appropriately.

The other countries are only a little more challenging. I have first hand experience with Greece and Spain. They take the same view although the facility is not in national law. Therefore there are processes to get permission on a case by case basis. You are then provided with authorized documentation identifying crew as 'in transit' with unstamped passports and not in Schengen.

With the exception of Malta none of this is in the public domain. I suspect this is all under the radar on behalf of the countries that do it to avoid any backlash from the Schengen Groupenfurers (literally... as Germany, I'm told, has for a long time objected to the practice}.

I would also suspect that the wording of II.3 is positively ambigious making it irrelevent as super yachts are by most definitions pleasure yachts. For the EU to act against super yacths would have a devasting impact on the marine industry. So, with no defined distinction between a super yacht and an AWB or similar countries should be able to argue the case for any size of pleasure yacht.

This has been custom and practice for a least 15 years and long before Brexit. No one's got around to telling the Brits yet.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

There is the law, and then there's custom and practice.

THE COUNTRY gets round II.3 by agreeing with a boats master that all on board are crew-in-transit. Then the relevant 'Recommended Practices' in sections D and F apply.

Malta take the view that pleasure yachts can carry crew in transit as a matter of course. With the correct documentation, you can be in Maltese waters with reference to national law that the crew are not in Schengen. You are unlikely to get challenged by Maltese officials as they have been instructed appropriately.

The other countries are only a little more challenging. I have first hand experience with Greece and Spain. They take the same view although the facility is not in national law. Therefore there are processes to get permission on a case by case basis. You are then provided with authorized documentation identifying crew as 'in transit' with unstamped passports and not in Schengen. This has been custom and practice for a least 15 years and long before Brexit.

With the exception of Malta none of this is in the public domain. I suspect this is all under the radar on behalf of the countries that do it to avoid any backlash from the Schengen Groupenfurers (literally... as Germany, I'm told, has for a long time objected to the practice}.

I would also suspect that the wording of II.3 is positively ambigious making it irrelevent as super yachts are by most definitions pleasure yachts. For the EU to act against super yacths would have a devasting impact on the marine industry. So, with no defined distinction between a super yacht and an AWB or similar countries should be able to argue the case for any size of pleasure yacht.

It does sound like a somewhat risky procedure if your intent is to visit restaurants, go sightseeing, shopping, and generally anchorage and marina-hop through a country. I could see it being useful for a few days stop to re-provision, take on fuel, effect repairs and be on your way, but if 3rd country yachts start trying to use it as a means to be a tourist in the Schengen area, bypassing the Schengen rules and Visa requirements, then it will be stamped out relatively quickly.

Brexit and the number of U.K. yachts may indeed trigger a change as they will far outnumber the usual 3rd country pleasure yachts making use of this process.

Enjoy it while it lasts IMO, and I still see a risk in getting caught up in something on-shore that results in non-maritime authorities questioning entry/exit stamps in your passport. The Convention was never intended to provide a means for private citizens in private pleasure yachts to bypass a countries immigration and tourism rules.

 

[Jules W]

There is the law, and then there's custom and practice.

THE COUNTRY gets round II.3 by agreeing with a boats master that all on board are crew-in-transit. Then the relevant 'Recommended Practices' in sections D and F apply.

Malta take the view that pleasure yachts can carry crew in transit as a matter of course. With the correct documentation, you can be in Maltese waters with reference to national law that the crew are not in Schengen. You are unlikely to get challenged by Maltese officials as they have been instructed appropriately.

The other countries are only a little more challenging. I have first hand experience with Greece and Spain. They take the same view although the facility is not in national law. Therefore there are processes to get permission on a case by case basis. You are then provided with authorized documentation identifying crew as 'in transit' with unstamped passports and not in Schengen.

With the exception of Malta none of this is in the public domain. I suspect this is all under the radar on behalf of the countries that do it to avoid any backlash from the Schengen Groupenfurers (literally... as Germany, I'm told, has for a long time objected to the practice}.

I would also suspect that the wording of II.3 is positively ambigious making it irrelevent as super yachts are by most definitions pleasure yachts. For the EU to act against super yacths would have a devasting impact on the marine industry. So, with no defined distinction between a super yacht and an AWB or similar countries should be able to argue the case for any size of pleasure yacht.

This has been custom and practice for a least 15 years and long before Brexit. No one's got around to telling the Brits yet.

Hi
I would be very interested to know how you managed to get transit logs for Spain. I have been told that without a Seamans discharge book this can’t be done. Any info would be greatly appreciated
Thanks

 

[Jules W]

Sadlerfin... With a few conditions a 3rd country citizen on a 3rd country boat can sail indefinitely in the EU through French, Spanish, Italian, Greek. Portuguese and Maltese water under International Maritime Organization's 1965 Convention rules. This means all on board are registered as 'in transit' on the crew list and are therefore not in the Schengen zone and not using Schengen days. The is no requirement for proof of financial means, health insurance or any form of residency or registration. And no local tax implications.

Different countries have different processes for doing this so you need to do some homework before you set out. Some require you to have a agent. Some countries require you to be paid crew. These 6 countries do DO NOT. The easiest country to deal with is Malta and the process is outlined on Noonsite. Greece is just a little more onerous where you're advise to have a agent.

If you're serious PM me and I'll give you an agent contact in Greece and some background info to get you started on the homework.

To answer your questions:

1, Would a Marina contract be acceptable as proof of address?
NO. Not needed.
2, If I wanted to stay no more than 6 months which country would be best?
You're not becoming resident. However, some countries require you to change vessel master every 6 month. In Greece, for example you must change the crew list every 6 month to show a different master. Both need to have ICC's or similar. Otherwise shuffle between Malta and Greece. ... not the only solution, but the one I know.
3, Do I have to pay tax locally on my UK income with these visas I'm told in Portugal at least I would not
No.

Hi Goeasy123. I have tried and failed to get info about how become a transit log sailor in Spain. Both guardia frontiera and yacht agents have repeatedly told me that you can only do this if you have a uk seaman’s discharge book. Getting one of these is not at all simple.
Am I missing something? People keep telling me you can stay as a vessel in transit but nobody I know has managed this except in Greece and Malta which have always used a transit log anyway. Any help you can give greatly appreciated

 

[Hooligan]

Do bear in mind that when you apply for a passport (certainly a U.K. or an E.U. one) there is a question in the application requiring you to declare any other passports held, I had to provide copies of every page of my other passport. They are then linked in the IT system of the issuing country to prevent a dual citizen from creating two seperate identities.

I don't know how much of this information will make it into ETIAS but IMO I think your idea to get multiple passports and pretent to be multiple people with multiple 90/180 entitlements has a certain element of risk associated with it.

You are not the first person to think of using this apparent loophole, it used to be used to keep passport stamps from undesirable countries out of your main passport - back in the 80s for example you couldn't get into the U.S. if you had a Russian visit, and someone who has been to Israel can't get into Iran. It is much more open now, but pretty much all the nefarious uses of multiple passports are know by the authorities, and will be checked if you ever give them reason to be suspicious.

I have a U.K. friend whose U.K. passport is "flagged" in the U.K. .... he found out because it was impossible for him to get through the E-Gates, rejected every time so he asked the passport official why the gates always rejected him. She didn't know the exact reason but did say that if it really was 100% then his passport either had the same name, or his description/picture matched that of a person of interest, so he was forced through a person-to-person check every time he entered the country.

There is a lot going on in the background that travellers simply do not realise and I have been asked to present both my passports at passport control and they were checked to ascertain that they really were issued to the same person - once your passport goes through the scanner then you really have no idea what is done with the information - and as pretty much all passports now carry biometric data, I would be very surprised if the scanner didn't flag your second passport as being a biometric match for another one in the system.

The only way to find out for sure is to try it.

Personally I think you are both right and wrong. I am a complete cynic on this one I will admit. We Brits seem to love rules and even worse obey them. I have two British passports - easy to get by the way. I use them alternatively ie I may enter the U.K. on either whichever I fish out of my bag at that moment. I do not believe that any country yet has the sophistication to figure out that I have two passports. Personally what I would do to avoid 90/180 is use one passport for 89 days - return to U.K. and come back the next day for another 90 days. I would be shocked if any EU nation figures this out and certainly not the southern ones. Maybe when electronic system comes in but not before.

 

[dankilb]

I think this is a necessary correction:

Maybe definitely when electronic system comes in but not before.

...given this is one of the few remaining loopholes (inc. for those with two separate third country citizenships - each offering a 90/180), I would seem incomprehensible that ETIAS won't close it.

 

[jordanbasset]

I think this is a necessary correction:

...given this is one of the few remaining loopholes (inc. for those with two separate third country citizenships - each offering a 90/180), I would seem incomprehensible that ETIAS won't close it.

Agree, the new system will be able to automatically compare biometric data (fingerprints and facial images) on their data base. Overstayers and other unwelcome people will quickly be identified

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Personally I think you are both right and wrong. I am a complete cynic on this one I will admit. We Brits seem to love rules and even worse obey them. I have two British passports - easy to get by the way. I use them alternatively ie I may enter the U.K. on either whichever I fish out of my bag at that moment. I do not believe that any country yet has the sophistication to figure out that I have two passports. Personally what I would do to avoid 90/180 is use one passport for 89 days - return to U.K. and come back the next day for another 90 days. I would be shocked if any EU nation figures this out and certainly not the southern ones. Maybe when electronic system comes in but not before.

Good luck .... you do know that a combination of first and last name, DOB, nationality, sex, and place of birth, are enough to uniquely identify you with a very high degree of certainty .... that's why that data set was chosen for passports in the first place. The fact that you have two bits of paper that both identify you, does not mean you have two identities, and how many valid travel documents you have is irrelevant to tracking you as an individual - you are still one person and Schengen Law is written to apply to people, not travel documents.

If your idea worked, every Tom, Dick and Harry could do the same as you, stay 98 days .... travel home, renew their passport, ... and go back with a shiny new one with a different passport number. The passport number identifies the passport, not the individual. Your data set identifies you. If a database was to use passport number as a means of identifying individuals, then the data would be discontinuous and muddled, due to passports being renewed, lost, stolen - passport ID numbers being the same across different countries etc. If you really think the designers of databases referenced by passport scanning systems aren't aware of this, then IMO, you're a bit naïve - the ID number is for the issuing country to identify their records relating to the issued passport, not to identify the individual.



For reference ... the data set to issue a SIS (Schengen Information System) alert - the system queried when your passport is scanned - uses the following minimum data to flag you to a border guard ...

The quality, accuracy and completeness of the data elements enabling identification are key to the success of SIS. For alerts on people, the minimum data set is:

• name
• year of birth
• a reference to the decision giving rise to the alert
• the action to be taken

When available, photographs and fingerprints must be added in order to facilitate identification and to avoid misidentification. The system also offers the possibility of adding links between alerts (for example, between an alert on a person and a vehicle).

Alerts and data in SIS

... passport number? nope - it's meaningless to anyone other than the authority that issued it.

Where you are safe is that SIS does not track 90/180 overstays, and alerts are not automatically generated for suspected overstayers - but if for some reason you do get caught, then your details will be entered into SIS and you can expect to be questioned in more detail every time you visit Schengen in future - unless you are handed a travel ban, in which case you would simply be refused entry.

ETIAS will be a completely different kettle of fish ....


ETIAS - European Travel Information and Authorisation System

 

[Hooligan]

Good luck .... you do know that a combination of first and last name, DOB, nationality, sex, and place of birth, are enough to uniquely identify you with a very high degree of certainty .... that's why that data set was chosen for passports in the first place. The fact that you have two bits of paper that both identify you, does not mean you have two identities, and how many valid travel documents you have is irrelevant to tracking you as an individual - you are still one person and Schengen Law is written to apply to people, not travel documents.

If your idea worked, every Tom, Dick and Harry could do the same as you, stay 98 days .... travel home, renew their passport, ... and go back with a shiny new one with a different passport number. The passport number identifies the passport, not the individual. Your data set identifies you. If a database was to use passport number as a means of identifying individuals, then the data would be discontinuous and muddled, due to passports being renewed, lost, stolen - passport ID numbers being the same across different countries etc. If you really think the designers of databases referenced by passport scanning systems aren't aware of this, then IMO, you're a bit naïve - the ID number is for the issuing country to identify their records relating to the issued passport, not to identify the individual.

View attachment 163404

For reference ... the data set to issue a SIS (Schengen Information System) alert - the system queried when your passport is scanned - uses the following minimum data to flag you to a border guard ...



Alerts and data in SIS

... passport number? nope - it's meaningless to anyone other than the authority that issued it.

Where you are safe is that SIS does not track 90/180 overstays, and alerts are not automatically generated for suspected overstayers - but if for some reason you do get caught, then your details will be entered into SIS and you can expect to be questioned in more detail every time you visit Schengen in future - unless you are handed a travel ban, in which case you would simply be refused entry.

ETIAS will be a completely different kettle of fish ....

View attachment 163406
ETIAS - European Travel Information and Authorisation System

I cannot disagree with anything you say. All i am saying is that in my very humble opinion the chance that the current systems are able to cross reference at the terminals at entry and exit especially in places like Greece are negligible. I also think we Brits get buried in needing to slavishly obey every rule made and hence one reason why we idiotically voted for Brexit that has resulted in 90/180. I am fortunate enough to have Irish ancestry which means I have an Irish passport as well. I tend to use all three as and when I feel like. Recently returning to the U.K. I used my British passport at the electronic gate. It rejected me and asked me to go stand in a 10 mile queue to see someone. So I merely took out my Irish passport and hey presto the gate worked. I am merely a total cynic when it comes to governments and technology.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I cannot disagree with anything you say. All i am saying is that in my very humble opinion the chance that the current systems are able to cross reference at the terminals at entry and exit especially in places like Greece are negligible. I also think we Brits get buried in needing to slavishly obey every rule made and hence one reason why we idiotically voted for Brexit that has resulted in 90/180. I am fortunate enough to have Irish ancestry which means I have an Irish passport as well. I tend to use all three as and when I feel like. Recently returning to the U.K. I used my British passport at the electronic gate. It rejected me and asked me to go stand in a 10 mile queue to see someone. So I merely took out my Irish passport and hey presto the gate worked. I am merely a total cynic when it comes to governments and technology.

You have an Irish passport? .... now I understand why you are so blasé about travelling in Schengen, the 90/180 rule is irrelevant to you - you can't overstay in the Schengen area with Irish citizenship.

I was stopped about a year ago in Munich airport for a suspected overstay as the border guard couldn't find an entry stamp in my U.K. passport ... production of my German passport got me waved through, production of your Irish passport had the same effect at your electronic gate. Do you know why your U.K. passport would not work at the gate? Could be any number of reasons from failure to scan properly to a flag set in the system to send you for a manual check - perhaps they wanted to verify you were a dual citizen?

It's all a moot point anyway as there are a number of systems coming in the next few years which will make it a lot harder to avoid scrutiny. EES (Entry Exit System) and ETIAS.

EES is due to go live at the end of this year (if it isn't delayed again) .... it will flag any visa-exempt overstayers at border controls .... anywhere there is a Schengen external border. You will basically be clocked in and out of Schengen by the infrastructure at the border crossings - and yes it does store multiple passports against individuals and is based on biometrics.

One of the EES goals is to replace passport stamping and to automatically identify overstayers .... scan the passport, identify the individual, computer says "no" sort of thing.

more here: The Schengen Entry/Exit System: biometrics to facilitate smart borders

The U.S has implemented a similar system which caught one of my friends when he tried to re-enter the U.S. ... he spent 3 hours in an interview room before he convinced them he hadn't overstayed on a previous trip. He was only able to do this because he always carries his expired passport as it contains entry and exit stamps of countries he has visited - in this case it saved him a deportation and a US travel ban as he had a stamp for crossing the Canadian border. He was told he could have the flag removed if he submitted his passport to the US authorities so they could correct their data, he refused and now adds a one to two hour window to his travel plans whenever he visits the US. Interestingly, he was flagged on his new passport even though the suspected overstay was on a previous one.

The world is moving forward, and I think a lot of people are in for a nasty shock at some point. I really don't understand why visitors from first-world countries seem to think that border control and immigration in other countries isn't a big deal - despite wanting to shoot immigrants at their own borders, or supporting schemes which deport immigrants to Rwanda.

Depends on your own personal perception of the risk I suppose, a bit like drunk driving or any other criminal activity - a combination of "it won't happen to me" and the belief that if it does, then the consequences will be minor.

... I do agree that the governments in general are pi$$-poor at managing IT projects, I know someone who worked as a technical consultant on the UK ID card project and the level of incompetence and self-interest in the various UK government departments blew his mind ... it got killed in the end.

 

[Sailfree]

We are just exiting France this week after staying a few days with so ex-sailing friends.

We initially entered the EU in February again using France.

We showed our Portuguese Residency card but France insisted on stamping our passports.

Again in February we stayed a few days in Brittany with friends.

I am anticipating being questioned on exit from France "where have you been for these 7 months?"

Fortunately with modern banking apps I can easily demonstrate that we were in Portugal with purchases on Portuguese credit card plus cash withdrawals. I am expecting this to be a satisfactory proof.

Will let you know if I run into any problems.

 

[Hooligan]

You have an Irish passport? .... now I understand why you are so blasé about travelling in Schengen, the 90/180 rule is irrelevant to you - you can't overstay in the Schengen area with Irish citizenship.

I was stopped about a year ago in Munich airport for a suspected overstay as the border guard couldn't find an entry stamp in my U.K. passport ... production of my German passport got me waved through, production of your Irish passport had the same effect at your electronic gate. Do you know why your U.K. passport would not work at the gate? Could be any number of reasons from failure to scan properly to a flag set in the system to send you for a manual check - perhaps they wanted to verify you were a dual citizen?

It's all a moot point anyway as there are a number of systems coming in the next few years which will make it a lot harder to avoid scrutiny. EES (Entry Exit System) and ETIAS.

EES is due to go live at the end of this year (if it isn't delayed again) .... it will flag any visa-exempt overstayers at border controls .... anywhere there is a Schengen external border. You will basically be clocked in and out of Schengen by the infrastructure at the border crossings - and yes it does store multiple passports against individuals and is based on biometrics.

One of the EES goals is to replace passport stamping and to automatically identify overstayers .... scan the passport, identify the individual, computer says "no" sort of thing.

more here: The Schengen Entry/Exit System: biometrics to facilitate smart borders

The U.S has implemented a similar system which caught one of my friends when he tried to re-enter the U.S. ... he spent 3 hours in an interview room before he convinced them he hadn't overstayed on a previous trip. He was only able to do this because he always carries his expired passport as it contains entry and exit stamps of countries he has visited - in this case it saved him a deportation and a US travel ban as he had a stamp for crossing the Canadian border. He was told he could have the flag removed if he submitted his passport to the US authorities so they could correct their data, he refused and now adds a one to two hour window to his travel plans whenever he visits the US. Interestingly, he was flagged on his new passport even though the suspected overstay was on a previous one.

The world is moving forward, and I think a lot of people are in for a nasty shock at some point. I really don't understand why visitors from first-world countries seem to think that border control and immigration in other countries isn't a big deal - despite wanting to shoot immigrants at their own borders, or supporting schemes which deport immigrants to Rwanda.

Depends on your own personal perception of the risk I suppose, a bit like drunk driving or any other criminal activity - a combination of "it won't happen to me" and the belief that if it does, then the consequences will be minor.

... I do agree that the governments in general are pi$$-poor at managing IT projects, I know someone who worked as a technical consultant on the UK ID card project and the level of incompetence and self-interest in the various UK government departments blew his mind ... it got killed in the end.

I think thats a little extreme. I wouldn’t associate drunk driving with overstaying your welcome as a contributing tourist to an EU country. Nor do I view this as criminal. My personal perception of risk totally involves the impact of my actions on other people. There are far more serious issues in life and the world in general, of course that’s in my very humble opinion.

 

[Bouba]

Good luck .... you do know that a combination of first and last name, DOB, nationality, sex, and place of birth, are enough to uniquely identify you with a very high degree of certainty .... that's why that data set was chosen for passports in the first place. The fact that you have two bits of paper that both identify you, does not mean you have two identities, and how many valid travel documents you have is irrelevant to tracking you as an individual - you are still one person and Schengen Law is written to apply to people, not travel documents.

If your idea worked, every Tom, Dick and Harry could do the same as you, stay 98 days .... travel home, renew their passport, ... and go back with a shiny new one with a different passport number. The passport number identifies the passport, not the individual. Your data set identifies you. If a database was to use passport number as a means of identifying individuals, then the data would be discontinuous and muddled, due to passports being renewed, lost, stolen - passport ID numbers being the same across different countries etc. If you really think the designers of databases referenced by passport scanning systems aren't aware of this, then IMO, you're a bit naïve - the ID number is for the issuing country to identify their records relating to the issued passport, not to identify the individual.

View attachment 163404

For reference ... the data set to issue a SIS (Schengen Information System) alert - the system queried when your passport is scanned - uses the following minimum data to flag you to a border guard ...



Alerts and data in SIS

... passport number? nope - it's meaningless to anyone other than the authority that issued it.

Where you are safe is that SIS does not track 90/180 overstays, and alerts are not automatically generated for suspected overstayers - but if for some reason you do get caught, then your details will be entered into SIS and you can expect to be questioned in more detail every time you visit Schengen in future - unless you are handed a travel ban, in which case you would simply be refused entry.

ETIAS will be a completely different kettle of fish ....

View attachment 163406
ETIAS - European Travel Information and Authorisation System

Thanks for that..very interesting BW...so for your €7 will this ETIAS give you anything more than you get now ?...for example, more than 90 days ?

 

[Hooligan]

Thanks for that..very interesting BW...so for your €7 will this ETIAS give you anything more than you get now ?...for example, more than 90 days ?

It is a replica of the US and Canada system which is remarkably efficient. Of course in true European fashion it has been delayed and I suspect there will be further teething problems. That said the fundamental issue is that we Brits have been used to happily going back and forward to continental Europe without worrying about things. Sadly since people decided that they didn’t like the EU this has changed. Worse still these same people cannot understand why their access to something they took for granted has suddenly changed. All rather tragic and avoidable but that’s what they all voted for. This did though produce another 6 mm Irish nationals and I am sure other new nationals for those lucky enough! I should add that I do not disagree with @Baggywrinkle in anything he has said. I just neither have as much faith as him as to the efficacy of member states’ systems nor the desire to follow rules as slavishly as we in the U.K. seem to do.

 

[westernman]

For people who have a talent which is in short supply, or who are retired on a decent income, can get residency in most EU countries without too much difficulty. Sure it is not as easy and convenient as before, but for the people in the categories above who are determined it is certainly doable.

 

[syvictoria]

For people who have a talent which is in short supply, or who are retired on a decent income, can get residency in most EU countries without too much difficulty. Sure it is not as easy and convenient as before, but for the people in the categories above who are determined it is certainly doable.

But residency still doesn't give you more than 90/180 elsewhere within the EU. This may be a solution for those who wish to reside/predominantly cruise in one country/area, but it isn't really a working solution for long term/distance cruising. Assuming, of course, that the residency rules are adhered to!

 

[westernman]

But residency still doesn't give you more than 90/180 elsewhere within the EU. This may be a solution for those who wish to reside/predominantly cruise in one country/area, but it isn't really a working solution for long term/distance cruising. Assuming, of course, that the residency rules are adhered to!

Citizenship does. And is attainable.

 

[syvictoria]

Citizenship does. And is attainable.

Yes, granted, although citizenship plus residency is a long term solution with possible tax implications.