Non DIY Maintenance tasks/costs for 32-36ft yacht

[salad]

Hello all,

I've received lots of excellent advice from several forum members on a variety of different topics. I've said it already, but I am extremely grateful for the contributions from those of you with infinitely more experience than I have.

This question arose because I noticed a discount on "Lift, wash, block-off & launch" on a quotation for a marina. The discounted price was a not entirely insignificant £600 or thereabouts. I presume such a procedure would be performed because you may with to renew anti-foul, change prop etc. My question is, how often would you typically expect to make use of that service, for anti-foul or otherwise, annually, biannually?

Additionally, are there any other things I should look out for in boat yard prices, where I'd really have no choice but to use the yard rather than DIY, such as lift in/out and so on? And finally, on average, how often does your boat come out of the water in a given year?

I'm trying to budget for running costs and I've used the rule of thumb of 10% of the purchase price. I'm aware that it could be significantly different to that, but I had to start somewhere. I hope these aren't how long is a piece of string style questions!

Many thanks

 

[MoodySabre]

String and location.
My 31ftr is copper coated. I avail myself of summer deals for a scrub (lift, jet wash,launch). That’s about £120. If they are in a good mood they will go and have a cuppa while I change an anode.
Every other year I come out for two or three days. Last year that was £340 for lift, jet wash, cradle for up to 5 days and relaunch.I try and avoid winter lift outs as these are expensive £650ish and I don’t have to winterise the engine. If I didn’t have my own cradle they’d charge me another £100 for hire.
These are East coast prices. Marina fee is £3k in or out,
For the cheap deals I go wherever they are best which is never at my marina.

 

[Daydream believer]

I take my 31ft boat out of the water every year for the winter& pay for haulout, jet wash £219 & hire of a 6 leg stand for the winter. Then I pay for re launch. £ 336 inc hire of stand .Because I have coppercoat I have to have the boat lifted ( at another marina like Moody Sabre as ours is ridiculously expensive) for a mid season jetwash circa £125-150 per time. The cost of this is about the same as antifoul paint without the labour so no dearer if one writes off cost of coppercoat .But do not forget another set of anodes.
Every 3-4 years the mast is dropped for inspection, maintenance & I have had a number of new forestays as I have been experimenting with mast rake. That varies depending on time etc. Rigging will be changed for the second time in 19 years at the end of next year. In 2012 it was just under £1100 for complete standing rigging inc bottle screws plus yard fees for crane for about 3 hours to drop & re fit the mast
I have had an engine service last year at £ 1050 which has meant that a suspected engine change was not needed. I have spent about £750 on electric works by engineers, ( software updates, alternator service twice etc) I had the copper coat prep shot blasting done by a contractor at £ 200 cash. Other than that all repairs have been done by myself.
But I do know that my boat, all in, costs me £ 13K PA to run. But I spend lots on sails etc ( 3 mainsails, 5 jibs) & stay in marinas whenever I go anywhere. I have had high expenditure on autopilots (7 of them)& instruments ( 3 sets, plus 2 chart plotters) & I am on second life raft which I have serviced at correct intervals. I have recently bought new batteries, my 3rd hand held VHF, 2nd PLB & EPIRB. Flares are expensive plus newer LJs. All add to running expenses. So it is not just marina fees to look out for.
I imagine it would be much more on the S coast with the higher marina fees.

 

[salad]

I take my 31ft boat out of the water every year & pay for haulout, jet wash & hire of a 6 leg stand for the winter. Then I pay for re launch. Because I have coppercoat I have to have the boat lifted ( at another marina as mine is ridiculously expensive) for a mid season jetwash circa £125-150 per time. The cost of this is about the same as antifoul paint without the labour so no dearer if one writes off cost of coppercoat .
Every 3-4 years the mast is dropped for inspection, maintenance & I have had a number of new forestays as I have been experimenting with mast rake. Rigging will be changed for the second time in 19 years at the end of next year.
I have had an engine service last year at £ 1050 which has meant that a suspected engine change was not needed. I have spent about £750 on electric works by engineers, ( software updates, alternator service twice etc) I had the copper coat prep shot blasting done by a contractor at £ 200 cash. Other than that all repairs have been done by myself.
But I do know that my boat, all in, costs me £ 13K PA to run. I imagine it would be much more on the S coast with the higher marina fees.

Would you mind me asking what boat you have just to give me an idea?

 

[Tranona]

Ball park figure for a 35' boat in a popular (but not top of the range) marina like Cobbs Quay in Poole is £8-10k for berth annual liftout, antifoul, engine service (both DIY) and insurance including, say £1k for minor repairs or upgrades.

By far the biggest component of this is the berth (over half) and prices for this vary enormously around the country but generally cheaper means less attractive either location, cruising grounds or accessibility. Basic economics, more desirable the offering, higher the demand, higher the price. If you go a bit smaller and use a swinging mooring or a half tide walk on you could halve that cost. You could also join one of the many member operated small clubs with moorings - for example in our club a swinging mooring for 7 months a year or so and marina berth or ashore for winter is around £2k and lift outs roughly half the price quoted above.

Many people run boats that size for £4-5k a year - the 6 years I had my last boat 33' averaged well under £4k including new goodies, but that was a new boat so minimal repairs etc. but that was in a club owned marina, all DIY and I live 15 minutes drive away!

You might now see why I suggested you consider chartering. If you add to the basic costs your travel costs for your 67 days a year - recognise that you will be lucky if you get out actually sailing for half of those days you will find your cost per day frightening. On the other hand if you charter in the sun you get almost 100% guaranteed boating days. I had my charter boat in the Med for 10 years and most of that time used it myself for 3 trips a year and we all said how much more we got out of it than the boat kept just down the road.

The bonus of starting this way is you will find out if you all like it, learn a lot about managing a boat of that size and type which will help you make an informed decision about whether you commit the considerable capital and unavoidable running costs of owning your own boat

 

[salad]

Ball park figure for a 35' boat in a popular (but not top of the range) marina like Cobbs Quay in Poole is £8-10k for berth annual liftout, antifoul, engine service (both DIY) and insurance including, say £1k for minor repairs or upgrades.

By far the biggest component of this is the berth (over half) and prices for this vary enormously around the country but generally cheaper means less attractive either location, cruising grounds or accessibility. Basic economics, more desirable the offering, higher the demand, higher the price. If you go a bit smaller and use a swinging mooring or a half tide walk on you could halve that cost. You could also join one of the many member operated small clubs with moorings - for example in our club a swinging mooring for 7 months a year or so and marina berth or ashore for winter is around £2k and lift outs roughly half the price quoted above.

Many people run boats that size for £4-5k a year - the 6 years I had my last boat 33' averaged well under £4k including new goodies, but that was a new boat so minimal repairs etc. but that was in a club owned marina, all DIY and I live 15 minutes drive away!

You might now see why I suggested you consider chartering. If you add to the basic costs your travel costs for your 67 days a year - recognise that you will be lucky if you get out actually sailing for half of those days you will find your cost per day frightening. On the other hand if you charter in the sun you get almost 100% guaranteed boating days. I had my charter boat in the Med for 10 years and most of that time used it myself for 3 trips a year and we all said how much more we got out of it than the boat kept just down the road.

The bonus of starting this way is you will find out if you all like it, learn a lot about managing a boat of that size and type which will help you make an informed decision about whether you commit the considerable capital and unavoidable running costs of owning your own boat

I appreciate your comments.

You're right in many respects, but chartering, once you move beyond the sailing aspect, just isn't the same as owning, not to me. I get it and I understand why it would work for some (many) people, but we're looking to make a nest of sorts, so it just wouldn't work. As an alterative, I'm tip toeing around the subject somewhat and rather than plumping for a shiny new 50 footer, I think it more sensible to opt for an old but gold 32, to see if we like it. It's sort of like chartering, but you get to take your own cushions. lol

We've pretty much settled on a marina near, but not in, the Solent. It's circa £5,500pa for 10m. For where it is, it's not horrific price wise. I've really been hammering the research this past couple of days, barely been offline as it was a great excuse to stay in my office, which just so happens to have A/C, yet I was working, I promise.

For what we want, I just don't think a swinging mooring would work. There are some nice ones, some not so nice ones. All off them offer sailing to varying degrees but we realised, what we are really looking for is a walk on/walk off situation, with a nice pub, somewhat close to a Toolstation (superior to Screwfix imo), no real worries about mooring lines and above all, nice toilets ashore lol. If I'm driving 4-5 hours, I don't want to tackle mud, flies and a tender when I arrive, even less so if it's raining and/or windy. It would just detract from everything. It's not only that. I looked closely at 2 clubs which appeared to be amazing. I loved what they offered, particularly in relation to activities for kids. It would have been absolutely ideal. If I was a pure sailor living within an hour of the boat, I'd bite their hand off. The trouble was, when sleeping on mooring, which we need to be able to do to make this work due to distance, I don't want to be within a mile of any major commercial operations.

I digress but, it just goes to show how situational it is.

Seems to me, based on this thread and many others like it, is that it's so difficult to budget for, that the only serious approach is to have a blank cheque book, and/or a backup plan.

 

[Tranona]

Yes, it is difficult to budget. If you are set on jumping in at that level then accept that your first year is likely to be £15k with even a good used boat - the £8-10k you can't avoid plus your travel costs and getting your boat to your liking. Falling in subsequent years, but living so far away recognise that you will probably need to pay for some of the regular maintenance (antifoul is £300+ just for labour)

When you look to buy go for a popular boat in the best condition possible as almost certainly you will want to change (or get out!) within the first few years. Bit of a leap in the dark if you have no previous experience to draw on. Even if you don't charter first suggest you get your day skipper with practical so you have at least some idea of what is involved in sailing and managing a boat of this size. While a few do jump straight in at this level vast majority work up to it.

 

[Concerto]

The big costs can be split into the following parts.

Berthing. The big expensive one. My 32ft Fulmar is £3700 in Chatham. When I enquired about Conwy it was £900 more for tidal restricted access. Then do not forget the cost of getting from your home to the boat.

Maintenance. To lift, pressure wash, move to hard standing and relaunch is about £450, which I do every other year. Using the most expensive white antifouling and applying 2 coats myself is about £250. I normally do not scrub between lifts as little grows in the Chatham compared to in the river on a mooring. Also using a boat regularly, especially in rough weather certainly helps keep the bottom clean. My rudder is still white with only a few marks despite having been in the water for 10 months. Other regular costs include engine servicing, anodes and polish. Irregular costs include upgrades to things like electronics, or replacement of worn out bits like sails and rigging (standing and fixed), mooring lines, fenders, wet weather gear, safety gear, foot wear, etc. Breakages is the big unknown, but something always breaks at sometime and it is always expensive to fix.

Insurance. This is not huge but in the low hundreds for most smaller and lower value boats.

Fuel. A motorboat can use a huge amount, even sailing yachts can use quite a lot if people have a times scale to keep to.

Visiting. Going to other harbours usually involves berthing charges. My boat can cost up to £40 per night on the south coast, but as little as £15 in Shetland. Then add in eating and drinking ashore.

Boat shows. These can cause additional extra purchases. I have been to a show and spent very little, but in the past also bout 2 new boats and associated equipment. So avoid if feeling the pinch.

In a usual year I plan for about £6,000 to £7,000 for berthing and basic maintenance. Upgrades and replacements are on top of this usually £3,000 to £4,000. My current Round Britain trip will probably cost about an additional £3,000+. Talking about the costs, it seems a lot, but then over the past 8 years the improvements to Concerto has cost about £26,000, which is more than I paid for her. Generally the bigger the boat, the more expensive things cost as the boats are more complex and powerful requiring stronger fittings, rigging, sails and ropes.

There is no basic answer to the question of how much does it cost. To be honest if you have to ask, then you will probably think you cannot afford it. Everything is relative and if you are boating then you will probably not be having holidays and weekends away, which can be a big cost saving towards keeping a boat. A few years I was chatting to a couple who had a motor boat they had just gone round Britain. I asked them how much they spent of fuel and they said about £10,000. I said ouch, but they said all their friends took four 2 week cruising on cruise ships and that cost a lot more than their fuel!

 

[salad]

The big costs can be split into the following parts.

Berthing. The big expensive one. My 32ft Fulmar is £3700 in Chatham. When I enquired about Conwy it was £900 more for tidal restricted access. Then do not forget the cost of getting from your home to the boat.

Maintenance. To lift, pressure wash, move to hard standing and relaunch is about £450, which I do every other year. Using the most expensive white antifouling and applying 2 coats myself is about £250. I normally do not scrub between lifts as little grows in the Chatham compared to in the river on a mooring. Also using a boat regularly, especially in rough weather certainly helps keep the bottom clean. My rudder is still white with only a few marks despite having been in the water for 10 months. Other regular costs include engine servicing, anodes and polish. Irregular costs include upgrades to things like electronics, or replacement of worn out bits like sails and rigging (standing and fixed), mooring lines, fenders, wet weather gear, safety gear, foot wear, etc. Breakages is the big unknown, but something always breaks at sometime and it is always expensive to fix.

Insurance. This is not huge but in the low hundreds for most smaller and lower value boats.

Fuel. A motorboat can use a huge amount, even sailing yachts can use quite a lot if people have a times scale to keep to.

Visiting. Going to other harbours usually involves berthing charges. My boat can cost up to £40 per night on the south coast, but as little as £15 in Shetland. Then add in eating and drinking ashore.

Boat shows. These can cause additional extra purchases. I have been to a show and spent very little, but in the past also bout 2 new boats and associated equipment. So avoid if feeling the pinch.

In a usual year I plan for about £6,000 to £7,000 for berthing and basic maintenance. Upgrades and replacements are on top of this usually £3,000 to £4,000. My current Round Britain trip will probably cost about an additional £3,000+. Talking about the costs, it seems a lot, but then over the past 8 years the improvements to Concerto has cost about £26,000, which is more than I paid for her. Generally the bigger the boat, the more expensive things cost as the boats are more complex and powerful requiring stronger fittings, rigging, sails and ropes.

There is no basic answer to the question of how much does it cost. To be honest if you have to ask, then you will probably think you cannot afford it. Everything is relative and if you are boating then you will probably not be having holidays and weekends away, which can be a big cost saving towards keeping a boat. A few years I was chatting to a couple who had a motor boat they had just gone round Britain. I asked them how much they spent of fuel and they said about £10,000. I said ouch, but they said all their friends took four 2 week cruising on cruise ships and that cost a lot more than their fuel!

I sat and watched your videos today. Most enjoyable and I will keep an eye out for part 3.

How are we getting from berthing at £3700 to £6,000-7,000 overall for berthing and basic maintenance. Quite a jump. Would you mind elaborating? Upgrades and replacements, particularly if you're hard cruising like you are (and impressively, too), I assume you're going through kit like its going out of fashion. It must be hard on the boat compared to relatively local cruising?

I saw a post a while back where a guy suggested it's actually cheaper to buy brand new yachts, run them, then sell them, compared to buying a 20-30 year old one and fighting fires on maintenance. I wonder if thats true.

I completely believe the story about the cruise ships. They are expensive and certainly not something I'd ever want to do, even if Kate Winslett offered to life model for me.

 

[Concerto]

I sat and watched your videos today. Most enjoyable and I will keep an eye out for part 3.

How are we getting from berthing at £3700 to £6,000-7,000 overall for berthing and basic maintenance. Quite a jump. Would you mind elaborating? Upgrades and replacements, particularly if you're hard cruising like you are (and impressively, too), I assume you're going through kit like its going out of fashion. It must be hard on the boat compared to relatively local cruising?

I saw a post a while back where a guy suggested it's actually cheaper to buy brand new yachts, run them, then sell them, compared to buying a 20-30 year old one and fighting fires on maintenance. I wonder if thats true.

I completely believe the story about the cruise ships. They are expensive and certainly not something I'd ever want to do, even if Kate Winslett offered to life model for me.

There are always things you never think should be added in the basic maintenance side, but I try to keep my boat looking excellent, just look at her at the Southampton Boat Show video.

The berthing and insurance is a fraction over £4,000. Everything you buy should be added to the regular mainenance costs. For example the past year. A couple of cans of varnish was £50. Antifouling, deck paint, thinners and 6 rolls of masking tape was £440. 2 new long mooring ropes, £160. New batteries £300. Brass strip for small improvements £35. Shackles £40. Nuts, bolts, screws about £80. Bilge pump £80. New lifejackt £220. New sailing boots £55. New sailing shoes £40. There have been things like small bits of rope, shock cord, water carrier, oil, diesel, petrol for the outboard, plus many small fittings to make or replace existing bits. It does not take long to spend hundreds of pounds on bits and pieces you need but you never allowed for.

The big purchases not included in this was the new pressurised hot and cold water system with a shower, converting the cool box to a fridge and having to change the electrical panel as I needed more switches, and buying a liferaft. This lot was about £2,500.

On this trip I have found my oil skins are becoming porous after 8 years use and will need replacing for about £500. My standing rigging will need replacing next year about £1,300. The sacrificial strip on the genoa needs replacing along with a couple of small repairs, probably over £500.

It is possible to be tight on what you buy, but eventually you find buying cheap does not pay. When I changed my sails 6 years ago, I paid extra to have Vektran sail cloth as it has a longer working life, a fully battened mainsail to increase the life of the mainsail even further and a foam luff for better sail set for the genoa when part furled and having a 6 ply leech, rather than a cheaper 4 ply leech, as this makes the replacement of the sacrificial strip cheaper to replace.

As you see there are costs that just keep appearing. It sounds frightening, but that is the cost of enjoying going sailing.

 

[salad]

There are always things you never think should be added in the basic maintenance side, but I try to keep my boat looking excellent, just look at her at the Southampton Boat Show video.

The berthing and insurance is a fraction over £4,000. Everything you buy should be added to the regular mainenance costs. For example the past year. A couple of cans of varnish was £50. Antifouling, deck paint, thinners and 6 rolls of masking tape was £440. 2 new long mooring ropes, £160. New batteries £300. Brass strip for small improvements £35. Shackles £40. Nuts, bolts, screws about £80. Bilge pump £80. New lifejackt £220. New sailing boots £55. New sailing shoes £40. There have been things like small bits of rope, shock cord, water carrier, oil, diesel, petrol for the outboard, plus many small fittings to make or replace existing bits. It does not take long to spend hundreds of pounds on bits and pieces you need but you never allowed for.

The big purchases not included in this was the new pressurised hot and cold water system with a shower, converting the cool box to a fridge and having to change the electrical panel as I needed more switches, and buying a liferaft. This lot was about £2,500.

On this trip I have found my oil skins are becoming porous after 8 years use and will need replacing for about £500. My standing rigging will need replacing next year about £1,300. The sacrificial strip on the genoa needs replacing along with a couple of small repairs, probably over £500.

It is possible to be tight on what you buy, but eventually you find buying cheap does not pay. When I changed my sails 6 years ago, I paid extra to have Vektran sail cloth as it has a longer working life, a fully battened mainsail to increase the life of the mainsail even further and a foam luff for better sail set for the genoa when part furled and having a 6 ply leech, rather than a cheaper 4 ply leech, as this makes the replacement of the sacrificial strip cheaper to replace.

As you see there are costs that just keep appearing. It sounds frightening, but that is the cost of enjoying going sailing.

Thank you for taking the time to break that down for me. It's extremely informative.

Can I ask, knowing what you know now, would you have bought a newer boat, for say £20-30k more, or still gone with your current "custom" route for the fitout, with expenses as incurred in real life. It's a personal decision obviously and for some, I imagine emotional.

I absolutely agree with the buy cheap, buy twice, mantra.

Have you had a go with Nikwax tech wash on your oils? I'm sure someone has said that before, but actually I've found it rather good.

Where are you presently and can we have another video soon? Hope conditions have eased a little for you. But blimey, what did I see, 7.56kn or something? Going some!

Reminds me. Are you accompanied, because I could have sworn I saw a yacht called Serenity in two of the ports you visited in Part 1? Maybe you have a stalker? They were blonde, around 5ft 6 and shapely.....

 

[Daydream believer]

Would you mind me asking what boat you have just to give me an idea?

2003 Hanse 311

 

[ashtead]

If you are considering a smaller boat as per Hanse size mentioned above have you looked at Port Solent berth attached to a residential property ? It’s a cheaper way of having walk ashore (if you can tolerate the lock) ? Gives easy road access,large chandlery ,plenty of marine services at PS. I know of those who were at Haslar in Gosport and saved a few£ by doing this. They are advertised by estate agents down at PS I believe.
in terms of costs let’s say your Hanse costs say£35k to buy then in addition to marina fees ,cheaper with a sill or lock ,then lift out at say Gosport boat yard depends to some extent on scope of works, if you have it lifted and blocked off you can diy your anti fouling over say a weekend living on board,polishing the hull changing an anode, saildrive oil etc. if you have the yard do jobs prices go up but you will find some jobs eg changing saildrive seals which you might have pay for every 7 years. That Hanse or suchlike might need a saildrive change,a new headsail (say 1500) new rigging? Other items might be repairs to fridge(regassing) need for a cockpit tent to increase space(say £2k ) new. Fenders,mooring lines, new mattresses for worn out beds, new water heater(calorifier) boat batteries etc. when you buy a brand new boat the add on expenses massively add up to base price say perhaps 15k to base price maybe. You will no doubt want a small blow up dinghy,outboard, plus if crossing channel a liferaft £750say, fuel isn’t that much in comparison but we just took on £200 at Jersey but first time fuelling this year on a 40hp diesel, on a Hanse you probably burn 1.5 litres per hour say to help on numbers re fuel. We don’t really count berthing fees away as part of costs as treat as hotel expenses and likewise meals out but clearly some save here cooking on board,tying to a buoy or anchoring etc. in summary for a Hanse of2003 a lot depends on condition but clearly you should have a surveyor comment on required expenses as part of any purchase. Happy hunting and don’t forget many makes have owners associations (not just Westerly and Moody) who might share info on specific model issues.

 

[Tranona]

I saw a post a while back where a guy suggested it's actually cheaper to buy brand new yachts, run them, then sell them, compared to buying a 20-30 year old one and fighting fires on maintenance. I wonder if thats true.

That was probably me as I have owned 2 new boats and my background is in finance so pretty good at keeping tabs on costs. Both my purchases have been unconventional on that I did not just sign a cheque for £100k out of savings. The first one I bought through a charter management scheme for effectively half its cost financed by an interest only advance against my house. This made the boat essentially self financing as I had no running costs and for the first 6 years had at least 3 weeks holidays on it which would have cost around twice the interest payments. I then ran it for a year on my own account and after all costs made a couple of K euros surplus in addition to 2 weeks holiday. Kept it in Corfu for a couple of years then sailed boat back to UK after paying VAT when it ceased to be a business asset.

5 years later part exchanged for a new boat and the allowance was roughly what I paid for the boat including the VAT - that is no capital loss (in money terms) over 14 years. Got a fantastic deal on the new boat which I then kept for 6 years. This boat is more relevant to the point. modern boats are well put together and reliable so require little expenditure in the first 5 years or so, but in ordinary times the capital value falls sharply . After that the balance changes, fall in value slows but repairs, replacements upgrades rises. Not unlike cars and there is a crossover point somewhere between 5 and 10 years. If you buy used most times you are buying into the costs post this crossover when future capital loss is small but maintenance in its broadest sense continues to increase.

I detailed my costs over 6 years in another post a few weeks ago and even including 2 sails came to well under £1k a year excluding of course berthing and insurance. Truly cheap boating for a fully loaded state of the art 33'. As it happens I sold it in these strange market times with a loss in capital value including brokerage fees of less than 10%. However if I had kept it I believe my ongoing maintenance would have stayed low and the crossover point would have been a lot later than even 10 years. Couple of factors influence this, first modern boats are better made and better equipped and second long term owners are usually better for boats than regular changes in ownership. My neighbour in the club bought his retirement 30' 17 years ago - now aged 80 he is almost ready to sell and his boat is completely original and he say it is only in the last year that significant replacements started to come up.

So why do more people not go this route? Mainly because in earlier parts of life few people have that level of disposable income or uncommitted savings and conventional financing is too expensive. Vast majority of new boat buyers are mature people or retirees - kids gone, no mortgage, lump sums from pensions or downsizing and so on. A 15 year old equivalent to the boat I just sold is typically 50% of the cost, but for all the reasons given above will have higher running costs. Overall costs over 10 years may not be dissimilar, but much depends on your ability to manage the running costs by doing most of the work yourself.

Hope this helps

 

[Daydream believer]

When I purchased my boat new in 2003 I paid in full, In the first year I spent circa another 25% on additional items that I had not bought, in addition to all the extras on the purchase list. Buying new is not just looking at the base price & ticking one or two boxes for "extras". Of course if one already has,handheld VHF, LJs, wet gear, a dinghy, outboard, tool kit & all the other paraphenalia from a previous boat, then it will be a little less. But one might still want,, EPIRB, PLBs, Liferaft, cruising chute, genoa, extra ropes, spare fuel cans, etc The list can be a mile long.
A friend of mine bought a new Princess MOBO at the same time, so we made a list of all the gear we wanted, even included 4 fold up bikes, dinghies etc & I sent to a number of chandleries for quotes. It came to quite a heafty bill but we saved a lot of money & the chandler continued giving us good discounts on further purchases for a while after that.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Berthing and haul out costs are going to be similar for power and yachts after that the items and costs start to diverge, engine maintenance will be very different. I mention this as you have hovered between power and sail and on this forum you will generally attract responses from the sailing community, for power boats you are better served asking on the motor boat forum.

 

[salad]

Berthing and haul out costs are going to be similar for power and yachts after that the items and costs start to diverge, engine maintenance will be very different. I mention this as you have hovered between power and sail and on this forum you will generally attract responses from the sailing community, for power boats you are better served asking on the motor boat forum.

Theres been a lot to take into account, my head is swimming. Our current thinking is that a motor boat of the size we were considering isn't really going to provide sufficient accommodation for extended stays and I don't really fancy one of the really big ones, just not my thing for various reasons. My wife would prefer sail too, although she did see a Feadship brochure once and it received full approval. Lovely boats but that might be over egging the pudding a bit and I'd also have to go to the considerable trouble of winning the lottery around 10 times in a row.

 

[salad]

If you are considering a smaller boat as per Hanse size mentioned above have you looked at Port Solent berth attached to a residential property ? It’s a cheaper way of having walk ashore (if you can tolerate the lock) ? Gives easy road access,large chandlery ,plenty of marine services at PS. I know of those who were at Haslar in Gosport and saved a few£ by doing this. They are advertised by estate agents down at PS I believe.
in terms of costs let’s say your Hanse costs say£35k to buy then in addition to marina fees ,cheaper with a sill or lock ,then lift out at say Gosport boat yard depends to some extent on scope of works, if you have it lifted and blocked off you can diy your anti fouling over say a weekend living on board,polishing the hull changing an anode, saildrive oil etc. if you have the yard do jobs prices go up but you will find some jobs eg changing saildrive seals which you might have pay for every 7 years. That Hanse or suchlike might need a saildrive change,a new headsail (say 1500) new rigging? Other items might be repairs to fridge(regassing) need for a cockpit tent to increase space(say £2k ) new. Fenders,mooring lines, new mattresses for worn out beds, new water heater(calorifier) boat batteries etc. when you buy a brand new boat the add on expenses massively add up to base price say perhaps 15k to base price maybe. You will no doubt want a small blow up dinghy,outboard, plus if crossing channel a liferaft £750say, fuel isn’t that much in comparison but we just took on £200 at Jersey but first time fuelling this year on a 40hp diesel, on a Hanse you probably burn 1.5 litres per hour say to help on numbers re fuel. We don’t really count berthing fees away as part of costs as treat as hotel expenses and likewise meals out but clearly some save here cooking on board,tying to a buoy or anchoring etc. in summary for a Hanse of2003 a lot depends on condition but clearly you should have a surveyor comment on required expenses as part of any purchase. Happy hunting and don’t forget many makes have owners associations (not just Westerly and Moody) who might share info on specific model issues.

The lets seem to come in at around £250-300pcm but according to one of our forum members, the marina isn't too happy about sub letters and has removed access to some of their facilities. That was the gist of it I think.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Theres been a lot to take into account, my head is swimming. Our current thinking is that a motor boat of the size we were considering isn't really going to provide sufficient accommodation for extended stays and I don't really fancy one of the really big ones, just not my thing for various reasons. My wife would prefer sail too, although she did see a Feadship brochure once and it received full approval. Lovely boats but that might be over egging the pudding a bit and I'd also have to go to the considerable trouble of winning the lottery around 10 times in a row.

OK so it's looking like a yacht good choice. The marina berth will be variable but easily verified when you decide on the marina and actual boat but as a ball park it's going to be around £4K, annual lift out pressure wash cradle, storage and relaunch about £1 but could carry depending on time of lift, duration and local offers. Then much depends on if you plan on doing the basics like engine maintenance oil changes etc and antifouling yourself or getting someone to do it which could easily put you into another £1K. Fitting instruments etc will also be very expensive and in my view best done DIY.
Owning and sailing a boat doesn't come cheap and isn't described as standing in a shower tearing up £50 notes.

 

[Graham376]

I saw a post a while back where a guy suggested it's actually cheaper to buy brand new yachts, run them, then sell them, compared to buying a 20-30 year old one and fighting fires on maintenance. I wonder if thats true.

It depends on what you want and whether you do your own maintenance. We had the option around 18 years ago of buying new Bav, Ben, Jan etc or a 16 year old used Moody. Not liking the new boats on offer, we chose used and over the 18 years have spent £20k+ on additions, upgrades and replacements but bear in mind many of those additions would have been extra cost on a new boat as well. - dinghy, outboard, life raft, windlass, radar, heater, etc.

Easy to see how vastly differing costs are quoted in posts. When we were Conwy based, a big tidal range so we could dry out alongside to power wash and antifoul as well as other maintenance jobs between tides whereas others pay for haulout and all work. On top of our drying out cost saving, we were mooring based so saved £3-4k for marina but, south coast prices would be even higher.