Non DIY Maintenance tasks/costs for 32-36ft yacht

[Salt'n'shaken]

Time constraints aside, I think your definition of 'DIY' will greatly affect the totals on a second hand boat.

If your the sort of person who when faced with a project at home, thinks: 'forget getting a tradesman in to do it, I'll have a stab', you'll likely save a lot on your boat upkeep over the years.

My guess is that you're not going to want to be spending quality family time, with the family watching Daddy bleeding the diesel or struggling to get a new flipping anode back in the engine because you were only born with one elbow per arm.

I fortunately enjoy the maintenance/renovation on the whole, although it might not sound like it

 

[salad]

Time constraints aside, I think your definition of 'DIY' will greatly affect the totals on a second hand boat.

If your the sort of person who when faced with a project at home, thinks: 'forget getting a tradesman in to do it, I'll have a stab', you'll likely save a lot on your boat upkeep over the years.

My guess is that you're not going to want to be spending quality family time, with the family watching Daddy bleeding the diesel or struggling to get a new flipping anode back in the engine because you were only born with one elbow per arm.

I fortunately enjoy the maintenance/renovation on the whole, although it might not sound like it

So true and you do right to bring this up. I appreciate it.

For us, the main issue will be the distance, of that I am certain. But, it's not insurmountable. It depends on having a place to store tools.

I love projects and to be fair to myself, the ones I take on, I execute to a high standard. I don't ever botch or skimp (drives my wfie mad at times). This in itself has led to problems with timescales, but my wife and I both work in construction and the availability of trades at the moment is not great. That is a seperate discussion. We work internationally, but finding good tradesmen to do anything at all, anywhere, is incredibly difficult. I've been forced to learn certain things over the years simply because I couldn't find anyone to do them. Soldering copper pipe, rewiring/testing half the house, plumbing, fixing the boiler, theres a long list. All jobs that came in at around £200 or so, so nobody wants to do them.

Thanks to this and my background in software and (amateur) furniture making, I have a fairly broad set of skills and my wife is happy to get oil up to her elbows were it to be required for a job, so we're fairly hardy in this regard which is why I think we'd generally do OK with a yacht. Also, we have a young son who is most eager to learn how everything works, he can be a genuine help at times and already knows a pozidriv from a phillips and a wrench from a socket. I think he'd be the one fitting any anodes in such a small space, as I'm not the smallest person. Give him a torque wrench and he'd be good to go I reckon. Beats Nintendo surely? Part of the reason we want to do this is to further his real life education and give him somewhere practical to use the skills he learns at school, particularly in science and maths.

It's going to be a challenge, that's for sure, but hands on stuff, be it welding, sanding, varnishing, plumbing, electrics/electrical cabling (to a sensible extent), IT stuff and imparticular woodworking, we might have a chance. My wife is also pretty skilled with a sewing machine, so she's already decided to reupholster everything herself. This is before we even have a boat!

With any luck, I'll be setting up a new woodshop soon, just waiting for planning, so who knows, maybe I'll be able to make cabinetry for a yacht. It can't be that much different to making it for shore, can it?

It's all a question of time. I'm not getting any younger, so it's do or die. Or maybe do and die, depending on whether I do the electrics properly.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

So true and you do right to bring this up. I appreciate it.

For us, the main issue will be the distance, of that I am certain. But, it's not insurmountable. It depends on having a place to store tools.

I love projects and to be fair to myself, the ones I take on, I execute to a high standard. I don't ever botch or skimp (drives my wfie mad at times). This in itself has led to problems with timescales, but my wife and I both work in construction and the availability of trades at the moment is not great. That is a seperate discussion. We work internationally, but finding good tradesmen to do anything at all, anywhere, is incredibly difficult. I've been forced to learn certain things over the years simply because I couldn't find anyone to do them. Soldering copper pipe, rewiring/testing half the house, plumbing, fixing the boiler, theres a long list. All jobs that came in at around £200 or so, so nobody wants to do them.

Thanks to this and my background in software and (amateur) furniture making, I have a fairly broad set of skills and my wife is happy to get oil up to her elbows were it to be required for a job, so we're fairly hardy in this regard which is why I think we'd generally do OK with a yacht. Also, we have a young son who is most eager to learn how everything works, he can be a genuine help at times and already knows a pozidriv from a phillips and a wrench from a socket. I think he'd be the one fitting any anodes in such a small space, as I'm not the smallest person. Give him a torque wrench and he'd be good to go I reckon. Beats Nintendo surely? Part of the reason we want to do this is to further his real life education and give him somewhere practical to use the skills he learns at school, particularly in science and maths.

It's going to be a challenge, that's for sure, but hands on stuff, be it welding, sanding, varnishing, plumbing, electrics/electrical cabling (to a sensible extent), IT stuff and imparticular woodworking, we might have a chance. My wife is also pretty skilled with a sewing machine, so she's already decided to reupholster everything herself. This is before we even have a boat!

With any luck, I'll be setting up a new woodshop soon, just waiting for planning, so who knows, maybe I'll be able to make cabinetry for a yacht. It can't be that much different to making it for shore, can it?

It's all a question of time. I'm not getting any younger, so it's do or die. Or maybe do and die, depending on whether I do the electrics properly. Most of us take a masochistic pleasure in it.

From what you say you would be well equipped in the skills department and have an invaluable tool in a small child for inserting into those small hard to access places ? You just have to set aside the odd weekend or two periodically especially in the autumn post sailing and spring pre sailing periods when you dedicate the time to repairing what needs to be repaired, antifouling, polishing and servicing the engine etc.

 

[Graham376]

From what you say you would be well equipped in the skills department and have an invaluable tool in a small child for inserting into those small hard to access places ?

OTOH, hire the child out as a chimney sweep and pay someone to work on the boat

 

[Fr J Hackett]

OTOH, hire the child out as a chimney sweep and pay someone to work on the boat

I found that due to the clean air act and the lined stainless flues now common place there was little demand so revenue has plummeted.

 

[harvey38]

So true and you do right to bring this up. I appreciate it.

For us, the main issue will be the distance, of that I am certain. But, it's not insurmountable. It depends on having a place to store tools.

I love projects and to be fair to myself, the ones I take on, I execute to a high standard. I don't ever botch or skimp (drives my wfie mad at times). This in itself has led to problems with timescales, but my wife and I both work in construction and the availability of trades at the moment is not great. That is a seperate discussion. We work internationally, but finding good tradesmen to do anything at all, anywhere, is incredibly difficult. I've been forced to learn certain things over the years simply because I couldn't find anyone to do them. Soldering copper pipe, rewiring/testing half the house, plumbing, fixing the boiler, theres a long list. All jobs that came in at around £200 or so, so nobody wants to do them.

Thanks to this and my background in software and (amateur) furniture making, I have a fairly broad set of skills and my wife is happy to get oil up to her elbows were it to be required for a job, so we're fairly hardy in this regard which is why I think we'd generally do OK with a yacht. Also, we have a young son who is most eager to learn how everything works, he can be a genuine help at times and already knows a pozidriv from a phillips and a wrench from a socket. I think he'd be the one fitting any anodes in such a small space, as I'm not the smallest person. Give him a torque wrench and he'd be good to go I reckon. Beats Nintendo surely? Part of the reason we want to do this is to further his real life education and give him somewhere practical to use the skills he learns at school, particularly in science and maths.

It's going to be a challenge, that's for sure, but hands on stuff, be it welding, sanding, varnishing, plumbing, electrics/electrical cabling (to a sensible extent), IT stuff and imparticular woodworking, we might have a chance. My wife is also pretty skilled with a sewing machine, so she's already decided to reupholster everything herself. This is before we even have a boat!

With any luck, I'll be setting up a new woodshop soon, just waiting for planning, so who knows, maybe I'll be able to make cabinetry for a yacht. It can't be that much different to making it for shore, can it?

It's all a question of time. I'm not getting any younger, so it's do or die. Or maybe do and die, depending on whether I do the electrics properly.

Then do as we did, buy something that is mechanically and structually sound that you both like and use your skills to put your own personal stamp on it to make it fit your requirements.

 

[salad]

Then do as we did, buy something that is mechanically and structually sound that you both like and use your skills to put your own personal stamp on it to make it fit your requirements.

Theres going to be an element of that no matter what we decide on, but I don't think I have the time or skills for a full on DIY refit, although I'd love to.

 

[PhillM]

Perhaps come to this from a different angle, find a small old boat and learn to maintain and upgrade it within a small budget. That way you understand the costs, what is essential and what is just nice to have. Then if you really want a larger boat, you have the experience to select one that will work for you. As an example, I recently picked up a 21-foot Coribee MK2. Including purchase, new rigging, total re-wire, sorting out the outboard and fuel tank and paying for 6 months on a Hamble river mooring, I was out sailing for about £5K. She is basic and I will spend time and probably about 1 or 2 K on her to get her how I want for next season,

I will still get as much enjoyment from my little boat and probably take her as far, if not further, than many owners of larger boats I know, but for a fraction of the cost. Would I love a new 40-footer moored on walk-ashore ... of course ... but my budget doesn't stretch to even the mooring fees. Would I get any more time to sail the larger boat, probably not.

 

[salad]

Perhaps come to this from a different angle, find a small old boat and learn to maintain and upgrade it within a small budget. That way you understand the costs, what is essential and what is just nice to have. Then if you really want a larger boat, you have the experience to select one that will work for you. As an example, I recently picked up a 21-foot Coribee MK2. Including purchase, new rigging, total re-wire, sorting out the outboard and fuel tank and paying for 6 months on a Hamble river mooring, I was out sailing for about £5K. She is basic and I will spend time and probably about 1 or 2 K on her to get her how I want for next season,

I will still get as much enjoyment from my little boat and probably take her as far, if not further, than many owners of larger boats I know, but for a fraction of the cost. Would I love a new 40-footer moored on walk-ashore ... of course ... but my budget doesn't stretch to even the mooring fees. Would I get any more time to sail the larger boat, probably not.

If it was a question of pure sailing and we lived next to the sea, I might well have done just that, as it makes complete sense to learn on something smaller. As it is, whatever we get has to serve as guaranteed accommodation due to the distance, so we can't really go much smaller than 32' and have everyone comfortable for a multi day visit whether sailing or not. Ideally I'd like something over 40, but from research it seems sensible to have 3 people crewing a boat that size, especially if you're not experienced, so a 32 or so it shall be.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

If it was a question of pure sailing and we lived next to the sea, I might well have done just that, as it makes complete sense to learn on something smaller. As it is, whatever we get has to serve as guaranteed accommodation due to the distance, so we can't really go much smaller than 32' and have everyone comfortable for a multi day visit whether sailing or not. Ideally I'd like something over 40, but from research it seems sensible to have 3 people crewing a boat that size, especially if you're not experienced, so a 32 or so it shall be.

Personally I think the idea that a 40 foot or plus boat is too much for a novice is over stated. Providing one understands the basics and progresses gradually in terms of exposure to weather etc building confidence as you go it's perfectly feasible.

 

[ylop]

You're right in many respects, but chartering, once you move beyond the sailing aspect, just isn't the same as owning, not to me. I get it and I understand why it would work for some (many) people, but we're looking to make a nest of sorts, so it just wouldn't work. As an alterative, I'm tip toeing around the subject somewhat and rather than plumping for a shiny new 50 footer, I think it more sensible to opt for an old but gold 32, to see if we like it. It's sort of like chartering, but you get to take your own cushions. lol

I can understand what you are saying, but I'd point out that comfort on boards a shiny new 50 footer and and old but nice 32' will be significantly different. It sounds from your interest in step aboard convenience, picking your own cushions, making a "nest" etc that you might be looking for a degree of comfort. Think the difference between a nice touring caravan and a proper static caravan. In fact if I had your exact buying criteria and was facing those sort of annual costs I'd seriously consider a really nice modern static at a site where you could day sail a small sensible boat.

 

[salad]

Personally I think the idea that a 40 foot or plus boat is too much for a novice is over stated. Providing one understands the basics and progresses gradually in terms of exposure to weather etc building confidence as you go it's perfectly feasible.

Clearly you've never seen me maneuver a dinghy in a marina..

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Clearly you've never seen me maneuver a dinghy in a marina..

Practice and thrusters dear chap is what you need. ?

And a little but not too much confidence that comes with the above.

 

[salad]

I can understand what you are saying, but I'd point out that comfort on boards a shiny new 50 footer and and old but nice 32' will be significantly different. It sounds from your interest in step aboard convenience, picking your own cushions, making a "nest" etc that you might be looking for a degree of comfort. Think the difference between a nice touring caravan and a proper static caravan. In fact if I had your exact buying criteria and was facing those sort of annual costs I'd seriously consider a really nice modern static at a site where you could day sail a small sensible boat.

Funny you should say that actually as we were looking at fees for statics last night to make ourselves feel better about the marina fees. The site fee's for the caravan were roughly the same as a marina berth ar £4500/yr! I've just never been attracted to static caravans due to the ridiculous contracts at the sites. They are not really something I'd entertain. At least I can move my caravan if it's the marina type.

As with all these things, it's all about compromises isnt it. A 32 certainly isn't a 50, but when you consider my only experience of sailing yachts was a fully crewed 95, it's a huge compromise no matter what, so a 32 or so will have to do for starters.

 

[ylop]

Funny you should say that actually as we were looking at fees for statics last night to make ourselves feel better about the marina fees. The site fee's for the caravan were roughly the same as a marina berth ar £4500/yr! I've just never been attracted to static caravans due to the ridiculous contracts at the sites. They are not really something I'd entertain. At least I can move my caravan if it's the marina type.

I've never looked at the details of statics, I'm sure some will be more reasonably than others - both financially and contractually. Have you read the T&Cs for a marina - some of their clauses can be a bit weird too.

As with all these things, it's all about compromises isnt it. A 32 certainly isn't a 50, but when you consider my only experience of sailing yachts was a fully crewed 95, it's a huge compromise no matter what, so a 32 or so will have to do for starters.

OK in that case I'll reiterate the point about going on a course/charter on something roughly the size you are considering. I'd add that this should be everyone who will influence if/when it gets used. Its no use you liking the idea of sailing a 32 if your significant other finds it terrifying or the idea of pumping her own waste a bit too rustic.

 

[Frogmogman]

…….it's a huge compromise no matter what, so a 32 or so will have to do for starters.

I think a 32 is a great size for a starter boat. Modern 32s have decent volumes, and are pretty comfortable, but the costs are mangeable, as indeed are the loads. Don’t forget that what may seem a modest increase in length leads to considerably greater displacement, sail area and hence cost and loads. If you are sailing with kids, for example, they may be able to wind in the sheets on a 32, but probably wouldn’t on a 40.

FWIW, for a first boat I’d suggest buying the most recent and/or well maintained example you can find, even if it is smaller than you might ideally like (which is what you seem to have decided). You’ll find that there are still plenty of little jobs that need doing and things that need sorting (unless you want to spend every trip to the boat doing DIY).

 

[Tranona]

I've never looked at the details of statics, I'm sure some will be more reasonably than others - both financially and contractually. Have you read the T&Cs for a marina - some of their clauses can be a bit weird too.
OK in that case I'll reiterate the point about going on a course/charter on something roughly the size you are considering. I'd add that this should be everyone who will influence if/when it gets used. Its no use you liking the idea of sailing a 32 if your significant other finds it terrifying or the idea of pumping her own waste a bit too rustic.

Plus one - or even more.

This is all theoretical until one actually tries the sort of boat you are thinking of buying. an RYA Day Skipper will use the sort of boat that one might buy, as will a modest flotilla for a week. You will learn more in that sort of exercise than in a year of trying to get to know your own boat and more importantly will be in a much better position to actually choose a boat to suit your needs. Probably most people reach a 32-35' boat after3 or4 steps up the size ladder. While this process is not essential, some way of getting a lot of experience in a short time is well worth doing. That way when you get the boat you can start cruising straight away.

As many have said there is not a lot of difference between 30 and 40' in terms of handling once you get yourself and boat organised.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I think a 32 is a great size for a starter boat. Modern 32s have decent volumes, and are pretty comfortable, but the costs are mangeable, as indeed are the loads. Don’t forget that what may seem a modest increase in length leads to considerably greater displacement, sail area and hence cost and loads. If you are sailing with kids, for example, they may be able to wind in the sheets on a 32, but probably wouldn’t on a 40.

FWIW, for a first boat I’d suggest buying the most recent and/or well maintained example you can find, even if it is smaller than you might ideally like (which is what you seem to have decided). You’ll find that there are still plenty of little jobs that need doing and things that need sorting (unless you want to spend every trip to the boat doing DIY).

2 kids and 2 adults on a 32 foot boat my idea of hell, 2 speed winches will take care of sheet loads on a bigger boat.

 

[PhillM]

As with all these things, it's all about compromises isnt it. A 32 certainly isn't a 50, but when you consider my only experience of sailing yachts was a fully crewed 95, it's a huge compromise no matter what, so a 32 or so will have to do for starters.

Why not use one of the Facebook “crew wanted” or “crew available” groups and get some experience on a wider range of boats before you choose your own?

 

[salad]

Why not use one of the Facebook “crew wanted” or “crew available” groups and get some experience on a wider range of boats before you choose your own?

I may do this once I'm suitably qualified. The boat purchase is not imminent, I just wanted a thorough understanding of what I'm getting us into.