No More Smelly heads

[jonrarit]

You all know the problem. No matter how you clean the heads when leaving the boat, when you return the first use smells like rotten eggs. I have at last found the perfect solution.

Ok first off, the cause. It doesn't matter how much fresh water/bleach/vinegar you do the final flush with, there is always salt water between the hull fitting & the heads pump. When the hull fitting is closed the bacteria in the salt water die and decompose...this is the cause of the smell when you next use the heads.

My solution is amazingly simple using two Y pieces, some tube & and in line valve. The plumbing involves fitting a Y piece to the drain of the heads SINK, this branch with the in line valve runs down to the second Y piece fitted as close to the hull fitting on the heads inlet as possible. When it comes to leaving the boat you close both the heads inlet and sink hull fittings and then open the in line valve. You then fill the sink with FRESH water which can now be pumped out through the heads and hey presto no salt water in the system and no more smell....

Hope this helps someone

JR

 

[sailorman]

our basin drains into the wc bowl via a diverter valve, this was originally done by the builder to save skin fittings. we have never had a smelly loo. i do fill the basin & add disinfectant when closing down the boat, this then drains into the bowl & i then turn the valve to retain some water in the basin system. wash around the wc & pump out

 

[Sandy]

How much fresh water does this need?

 

[jonrarit]

Just a sink full is more than plenty enough. The aim is just to flush out the sea water on the inlet side, so really all you need is however much is in the pipe

 

[Norman_E]

That looks a good solution, though I have converted my heads to fresh water flush and done away with the sea water inlet entirely.

 

[prv]

Using the boat more is another way of dealing with it

If it hasn't been used for a while, I just lean in and give the heads a quick pump at the same time as turning on the batteries, stowing the binnacle and instrument covers, etc. That initial flush smells a bit, but I only have my head in the door for a few seconds. By the time someone wants to actually use the heads, the smell has long-since dissipated.

Pete

 

[RichardS]

Another way of dealing with it is to just put a disinfectant toilet block (buy a large tub of the professional urinal lozenge type on eBay - cheap as chips) in the inlet mesh filter. Smells sweet (I use lemon!) first flush and every flush.

Richard

 

[prv]

Another way of dealing with it is to just put a disinfectant toilet block in the inlet mesh filter.

Ain't got an inlet filter

Also, perhaps this is just me, but the smell of air fresheners, disinfectant, toilet sanitisers, etc I find just as offensive, if not more so, than the biological smells they're supposed to mask.

I keep Ariam's heads plumbing in good condition and the compartment nice and clean, and it smells of nothing in particular.

Pete

 

[JumbleDuck]

Ok first off, the cause. It doesn't matter how much fresh water/bleach/vinegar you do the final flush with, there is always salt water between the hull fitting & the heads pump. When the hull fitting is closed the bacteria in the salt water die and decompose...this is the cause of the smell when you next use the heads.

I'm afraid that's not true. Vyv Cox comprehensively debunked it with experiments a while back. The smell comes from trapped particles of faecal matter, not from the sea water. The easy way, or at least the cheap way, to avoid the smell is simply to give a damn good pumping before you leave the boat ... and long after the last solid use of the toilet. Doing it in a marina may not help, as there are far too many savages who think it acceptable to use sea toilets when tied up, but if you do it in clean water it works a treat.

 

[oldvarnish]

I'm afraid that's not true. Vyv Cox comprehensively debunked it with experiments a while back. The smell comes from trapped particles of faecal matter, not from the sea water.

Yes, that is correct.

 

[EdWingfield]

Vyv is only half-way there. It is bacteria trapped in the closed off loo plumbing. The anaerobes die off due to lack of O2. Then the anaerobes get their chance and thrive. Their by-product is rotten eggs. Hydrogen Sulfide H2S. As you say, continual use of bog, or a damned good flushing on arrival is the trick.

 

[prv]

Vyv is only half-way there. It is bacteria trapped in the closed off loo plumbing.

Not, however, random "seawater bacteria". They're specifically from the toilet waste, transferred from outlet to inlet on the walls of the double-sided pump.

Vyv sealed up samples of plain seawater in exactly the same way, and they didn't smell.

Further anecdotal evidence comes from Kindred Spirit's head, which I replaced when we bought the boat and then was never used for solids in three years (the compartment was too small to sit down and close the door!). That never smelled sulphurous. Ariam's head was likewise replaced on purchase, used for its intended purpose as the compartment is spacious and comfy, and now has the standard eggy aroma on first flush after not being used for a while.

A good argument for using completely separate intake and outlet pumps, really.

Pete

 

[JumbleDuck]

A good argument for using completely separate intake and outlet pumps, really.

True. There are two fundamental problems with the standard Jabsco / RM69 / everyone system of using opposite sides of the same piston for pumping in and out. One is that the two swept volumes are almost the same (the pump rod makes a small difference) so they pump in and out at the same rate. The other is that, as I think you are saying, there is always some leakage past the piston, so there are always smells unless you pump a lot. I find it takes at least 50 strokes of my RM69, in clean water, to be reasonably sure it won't pong on my return.

 

[aquaplane]

So I don't stand any chance at all in Tayvallich bay, I have pumped and pumped before leaving the boat and it still pongs when I get back. The boat is floating in shit.

A trip out into Loch Sween to pump the bog may work I suppose.

 

[Tranona]

Replace your hose with proper butyl sanitation grade. Biggest source of smell is through porous old style hose.

 

[aquaplane]

Replace your hose with proper butyl sanitation grade. Biggest source of smell is through porous old style hose.

Is that for me?

I think the hose is the proper stuff. Perhaps I should say that I get the pong the first time I flush the loo. The smell is pretty much contained untill things start moving.

I fitted a new Jabsco back end of last season so I'll see if it's any better with the shiny new pump but I suspect that the water isn't as clean as it could be even before it comes into the boat before there is any chance of pump bypass situations.

 

[FulmarJeddo]

When I bought my current boat there was no smell at all from the heads, which was a pleasant surprise from the previous boat. During the 2nd season the smell started. I had read, I think on a previous post on here that it was cross contamination in the pump. The pump also got stiff. I took the pump apart, cleaned the inside of the pump and the rubber washer that separates the two chambers. I greased all the components with silicone grease (available from a plumbers shop). I now have a non smelly heads that pumps smoothly.

 

[BlueChip]

I don't think its cross contamination within the pump, your pumping waste into the sea and the flush water comes from the same sea.
If you've ever looked at the pump out when you are at anchor a huge cloud forms, its pretty obvious to me that if the toilet is flushed anywhere with a zero or low tidal flow then some of the effluent must be sucked in the inlet and it only takes a few bugs for the bacteria to grow.

My solution is one of the Lee Sanitation dosing devices in the inlet line, I add a small piece of swimming pool chlorine block to this which very slowly dissolves and continually doses the flush water with chlorine. When first flushing it smells like a swimming pool, thereafter it doesn't smell.
One chlorine block lasts many years as I only put a piece about the size of a pea in at any one time and this lasts about a month.

 

[RupertW]

You pump out when at anchor?

We can be pretty sure it's cross contamination in the pump as we only ever pump out when underway - otherwise it's into the holding tank so a 2m height of pipe of diluted unpleasantness - so either joker valve which I have test by taking the pump apart to see if it leaks back, or the pump itself. Why one heads is fine and the other smelly I do not know but I am particularly unlucky as it's my heads that smells and my wife's that does not.

 

[Billjratt]

So, it looks like another win for Lavac. We just leave the lid up and pump a few basins full of fresh water through then a final skoosh of something pleasant that the captain buys.