colind3782
Well-known member
The bit at the bottom says:
Legal Disclaimer:
This website is a private information website not affiliated with the European Government
Probably just a scam site.
NHS Treatment Restrictions
- Thread starter Graham376
- Start date
Legal Disclaimer:
This website is a private information website not affiliated with the European Government
Probably just a scam site.
Graham376
Well-known member
The information appears to be correct after looking at other sites. Maybe some sort of scam if you pay for their services but otherwise doubtful.
jordanbasset
Well-known member
My understanding is that when the withdrawal agreement finishes we will only be allowed 90 days in every 180 in Schengen under the Schengen visa system, unless you get citizenship or residency or a long stay visa in an individual country. Even if you get residency or a long stay visa you will only be able to stay longer than 90 days in every 180 in the country you have residency or a long stay visa in
nortada
Well-known member
Agree all of the above but what about a Brit who has say Portuguese residency, if they want to go to say Spain? Will the time spent in Portugal count against the 90 days they can remain in Spain?
Such research as I have been able to do suggests that after 90 days in Portugal they will have exhausted their allowance and not be able to enter Spain or any other Schengen Zone legally.
Whilst this may be the legal situation, in practical terms, it will be nye impossible to enforce.
Take The Algarve/Andalusia situation. Much of the southern Portuguese/Spanish border is the River Guadiana, which wanders between the two countries and can be crossed in numerous places - and is. I understand that the river is international waters jointly administered by both countries?
I will be very interested to hear views from the folk up at Alcoutim (Portugal) and Sanlucar de Guadiana (Spain) or in Vila Real de Santo Antonio (Portugal) and Ayamonte (Spain)?
In the final analysis, provided they let sleeping dogs lie, I expect all will continue much as before.
When is the next festival on the river?
jordanbasset
Well-known member
I agree if you have residence in one Schengen country it is possible to live under the radar in other Schengen countries and you are unlikely to be caught by the authorities (unless you are involved in an incident/accident/crime that brings you to their attention) and so in practical terms may make little difference. Personally though even if I had residency I would not do this as it would not be legal, maybe I worry too much.
But for most of the liveaboards/extended cruisers we met they do not have residence and so it will be quite easy for the 90 days in every 180 to be checked up on by every time they fly in and out of the Schengen zone. There are many in Greece for example who spend 5-6 months of the summer out there, they will be limited to 3 months unless we get a deal continuing free movement of course. (Am in Spain for the winter now and there are similarly large numbers of land based UK citizens who do the same) Also large numbers of us are not in the first flush of youth shall we say, getting insurance without the EHIC as back up, for 6 months will be an added expense
All these questions will be answered in the next 12 months, hopefully....
But for most of the liveaboards/extended cruisers we met they do not have residence and so it will be quite easy for the 90 days in every 180 to be checked up on by every time they fly in and out of the Schengen zone. There are many in Greece for example who spend 5-6 months of the summer out there, they will be limited to 3 months unless we get a deal continuing free movement of course. (Am in Spain for the winter now and there are similarly large numbers of land based UK citizens who do the same) Also large numbers of us are not in the first flush of youth shall we say, getting insurance without the EHIC as back up, for 6 months will be an added expense
All these questions will be answered in the next 12 months, hopefully....
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nortada
Well-known member
Once they are defined, I also will not break the rules - I won’t have to.
Time in Portugal, then 90 days in the UK, then up to 90 days in the EU, return to Portugal for as long as I wish - repeat the cycle. My 90 days in the UK will be coincide with the best cruising conditions In the UK. If I fall sick in the EU, I will use my UK EHIC or if that is no longer valid - my Portuguese EHIC.
EXAMPLE :- Mid June to mid Sept, in UK [Southern Europe too hot, busy, expensive], Mid Sept to mid Dec cruise In Med, Mid Dec to Mid June enjoy the super warm winter weather in The Algarve. Repeat every calander year - what’s there not to like
Having worked this out, more and more Brits are registering for residencia in Portugal.
I doubt if any of your questions will be answered in the next 12 months or for a very long time after that.?
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macd
Active member
You write as though the situation were novel. It's not: there are already many thousands of third country nationals living in the EU with residence in one of its countries, and have been since Schengen started. I know quite a few such people and possibly, so do you. There has never been the remotest suggestion that time spent in their country of residence eats into their entitlement in other EU states.
As said, this one's been answered for at least 25 years.
nortada
Well-known member
All true now but the question is, post Brexit, will days spend in your EU country of residence, eat into the 90 days you will be allowed to stay legally in another Schengen Zone country
I would offer, post Brexit the situation could change to become totally novel - especially if The EU tries to make examples to deter any others thinking of leaving the EU.
No matter, the solution I suggest above (#66) could resolve the issue.
macd
Active member
All true now but the question is, post Brexit, will days spend in your EU country of residence, eat into the 90 days you will be allowed to stay legally in another Schengen Zone country
That's precisely the question I was referring to. It's been answered too many times to count: every time a third country national with residence in one Schengen country travels to another.
It's not remotely novel and it's nothing to do with Brexit.
Don't you know any third country nationals resident where you are?
nortada
Well-known member
Post Brexit, I would suggest, for Brits, depending on what Boris negotiates, it could become entirely novel so I have the cunning plan (#66).
Oh yes, post Brexit, Brits may not find it so easy to get residencia.
I am currently witnessing the problems being encountered by my American neighbours who wish to remain in Portugal legally for more than 90 days.
Been going on for many months??
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macd
Active member
I fear you're either a little paranoid, or got out of the dumber side of your bed.
Nothing about this issue is new.
Your plan is something even Baldrick would be ashamed of.
nortada
Well-known member
Why resort to insults?
Please illustrate what is wrong with the plan - I have been using it for a number of years?
Sir Baldrick would be proud of it. Are you Capt Blackadder?
As to a little paranoid - why? As far as possible, I have got it hacked.
Post Brexit for some Brits it will be a whole new game - possibly more so for those longer term visitors cruising the Med.
I will check on the latest state of play with my American chums and report back.
As Liveaboard Link is not the nasty forum, please put away you nasty man face and go out and enjoy the sun.
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Graham376
Well-known member
As not everyone flies to their country of residence, travel through/time in other States must be allowed. It would be out of the question for people to drive down to their country of residence for the summer and then have to leave their cars there and fly back because they're out of time, it just won't happen.
I can see some problems will need to be sorted as checks presumably will be made on visitors length of stay but, as there are no border checks within Schengen, unless third party nationals have to check in with police or immigration (which I doubt will happen), how will they know if time there has been spent in country of residence or elsewhere?
I can see some problems will need to be sorted as checks presumably will be made on visitors length of stay but, as there are no border checks within Schengen, unless third party nationals have to check in with police or immigration (which I doubt will happen), how will they know if time there has been spent in country of residence or elsewhere?
macd
Active member
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Tony Cross
Well-known member
I think the only checks in the Schenegn Zone come when you cross the Schengen border, that's when the 90 days in 180 will start (or continue). When you go home again you'll also have to cross a Schengen border and that's the point at which they will tally the days you've spent in the zone. I've no idea what the penalties are if you overstay but that's where they will be applied.
macd
Active member
Nortada/anyone else.
No need to take my word for it:
Q: I have a valid long stay visa/residence permit for a country that is part of the Schengen area. Do I need another visa to travel to other Schengen states?
A: No. A long stay visa or a residence permit issued by a Schengen State allows you to travel or stay in other Schengen States, while respecting the maximum duration of a “short stay” (a stay of "90 days in any 180 day period").
Question 15 at https://eeas.europa.eu/sites/eeas/files/frequently_asked_questions_en.pdf
No need to take my word for it:
Q: I have a valid long stay visa/residence permit for a country that is part of the Schengen area. Do I need another visa to travel to other Schengen states?
A: No. A long stay visa or a residence permit issued by a Schengen State allows you to travel or stay in other Schengen States, while respecting the maximum duration of a “short stay” (a stay of "90 days in any 180 day period").
Question 15 at https://eeas.europa.eu/sites/eeas/files/frequently_asked_questions_en.pdf
nortada
Well-known member
Gosh you have got it bad.
Q: I have a valid long stay visa/residence permit for a country that is part of the Schengen area. Do I need another visa to travel to other Schengen states?
NO.
Agree.
A: No. A long stay visa or a residence permit issued by a Schengen State allows you to travel or stay in other Schengen States, while respecting the maximum duration of a “short stay” (a stay of "90 days in any 180 day period").
Agree, but so long as the UK is in the EU, I assume, you are still a citizen of the EU so no Schengen limits apply to you and you have complete freedom of travel within the EU?
When the UK leaves the EU, the rules in your answer MAY OR MAY NOT apply and that is the nub of our discussion.
I assume you are a British citizen (passport holder) so when the UK leaves the EU your status will change?
After, Brexit your residence permit will permit you to be permanently in that country but Schengen Rules may come into play for time spent in other EU
Now to my #66, which stands scrutiny and the test of time, which is more than can be said for your penny point shots in #74, which largely refute your comments in #64.
As many know, I undertake research (mainly in Iberia) and share my results, with the caveat that at best this can only be an educated guess.
Others, rather than you, can judge the success (or otherwise) of my efforts but for me, I have got it hacked, so I am fat, dumb and happy.
I do not intend to enter into point score with you, save to say that the Americans (who originally sought me out) as citizens of a non-EU country are experiencing significant problems, registering and getting temporary residency in Portugal - FACT!
Once the UK leaves the EU and becomes an non-EU nation, Brits could experience similar problems. The short term solution is to register before we leave the EU.
In the longer term, the American's experiences my be of use to Brits hoping to get residencia post Brexit so I will post what I find out.
Of course, in the course of the negotiations, Boris may get a special deal, in which case my efforts will have been wasted
Q: I have a valid long stay visa/residence permit for a country that is part of the Schengen area. Do I need another visa to travel to other Schengen states?
NO.
Agree.
A: No. A long stay visa or a residence permit issued by a Schengen State allows you to travel or stay in other Schengen States, while respecting the maximum duration of a “short stay” (a stay of "90 days in any 180 day period").
Agree, but so long as the UK is in the EU, I assume, you are still a citizen of the EU so no Schengen limits apply to you and you have complete freedom of travel within the EU?
When the UK leaves the EU, the rules in your answer MAY OR MAY NOT apply and that is the nub of our discussion.
I assume you are a British citizen (passport holder) so when the UK leaves the EU your status will change?
After, Brexit your residence permit will permit you to be permanently in that country but Schengen Rules may come into play for time spent in other EU
Now to my #66, which stands scrutiny and the test of time, which is more than can be said for your penny point shots in #74, which largely refute your comments in #64.
As many know, I undertake research (mainly in Iberia) and share my results, with the caveat that at best this can only be an educated guess.
Others, rather than you, can judge the success (or otherwise) of my efforts but for me, I have got it hacked, so I am fat, dumb and happy.
I do not intend to enter into point score with you, save to say that the Americans (who originally sought me out) as citizens of a non-EU country are experiencing significant problems, registering and getting temporary residency in Portugal - FACT!
Once the UK leaves the EU and becomes an non-EU nation, Brits could experience similar problems. The short term solution is to register before we leave the EU.
In the longer term, the American's experiences my be of use to Brits hoping to get residencia post Brexit so I will post what I find out.
Of course, in the course of the negotiations, Boris may get a special deal, in which case my efforts will have been wasted
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Graham376
Well-known member
Understand what you're saying but - say you arrive at Calais and have your passport stamped then drive down to Spain where you have residence, for 6 months. When arriving back at French immigration on exit, you appear to have overstayed by 3 months so, what happens?
Maybe we'll have our passports stamped "residence in *******" which could explain the overstay but, who knows? We'll just have to wait and see.
macd
Active member
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macd
Active member
Nortada: apologies: I've only just seen your edit.
Your agreement to the text in red is touching but irrelevant. That's the EU's stated position. Whether we agree is neither here nor there.
Again, the point I'm arguing relates entirely to post-Brexit, nothing to do with current rights and freedoms enjoyed by British citizens.
After Brexit, the UK becomes a third country. That's what the Withdrawal Agreement very specifically states, after three years of wrangling.
Schengen rules for third country nationals are both well established and generic. (The only difference is that about 100 countries' nationals require actual Schengen visas, 60-odd countries' don't.) They apply to all third country nationals which, post -Brexit, will include Brits. There's no "may" about Schengen rules coming into play. They're already in play.
To remind you of my original and only point from post #67: any third country national formally resident in a Schengen country may visit other Schengen countries for up to 90 days in 180. Thereafter, sufficient time spent in a third country and/or the Schengen country of residence will refresh entitlement to visit those other Schengen countries again. That is the rule as it applies to everyone on the planet who might gain EU residence. If there is a way it could not apply to an EU-resident Brit, that could only be if HMG specifically demanded it, which is absurd. (Reciprocity has no bearing in this specific context since, unlike the EU, it's impossible to be legally resident in the UK without being resident in all of it.) Any suggestion that the EU might withdraw the rule just for us is well into paranoia territory -- on the back of a unicorn.
Your agreement to the text in red is touching but irrelevant. That's the EU's stated position. Whether we agree is neither here nor there.
Again, the point I'm arguing relates entirely to post-Brexit, nothing to do with current rights and freedoms enjoyed by British citizens.
After Brexit, the UK becomes a third country. That's what the Withdrawal Agreement very specifically states, after three years of wrangling.
Schengen rules for third country nationals are both well established and generic. (The only difference is that about 100 countries' nationals require actual Schengen visas, 60-odd countries' don't.) They apply to all third country nationals which, post -Brexit, will include Brits. There's no "may" about Schengen rules coming into play. They're already in play.
To remind you of my original and only point from post #67: any third country national formally resident in a Schengen country may visit other Schengen countries for up to 90 days in 180. Thereafter, sufficient time spent in a third country and/or the Schengen country of residence will refresh entitlement to visit those other Schengen countries again. That is the rule as it applies to everyone on the planet who might gain EU residence. If there is a way it could not apply to an EU-resident Brit, that could only be if HMG specifically demanded it, which is absurd. (Reciprocity has no bearing in this specific context since, unlike the EU, it's impossible to be legally resident in the UK without being resident in all of it.) Any suggestion that the EU might withdraw the rule just for us is well into paranoia territory -- on the back of a unicorn.