New Windlass - Chain Locker Dilema

[Jokani]

My Westerly Centaur has two small connected locker spaces.

Last season the chain often jammed in the space between the two, then there isn't enough weight of chain to pull it down to the lower locker, and the chain has to be pulled out and try again.

The top space is right at the front of thebow, the height to the top of the chain pile is approx 25cm, from there the chain drops at quite an angle, and stuggles to pull down:

I am in the process of fitting an additional bow roller (alongside the existing) & a new windlass, here are some approximate postitions/dimensions:

To take in to account the length of the anchor shaft, the windlass and chain drop will need to move 30-40cm aft.

My thoughts are that the best way forward is to install a pipe between the windlass chain drop and the lower locker, missing out the upper locker completely. I would need to see if 30m chain and 30mm of anchor plait will fit though.

Is there a better plan?

 

[sarabande]

looks good and practical to me. Bringing the weight of the chain back from the bow is good. If short of volume then a raised lip will contain chain and cable. You will need a good limber hole to drain the new locker, and that you have a secure point to fix the bitter end of the anchor plait so that it can be cut free at deck level if need be. Perhaps the winch is a bit too close to the end of the anchor shank ? A bit of space to make handling and securing the anchor is useful.


How are you reinforcing the deck below the winch ?

Will the cleat be too close to the winch to provide a fair lead ? (Assuming a rope drum and chain gypsy). How are you going to secure the chain when anchored ?

 

[Jokani]

Thanks for your advice Sarabande.

Perhaps the winch is a bit too close to the end of the anchor shank ? A bit of space to make handling and securing the anchor is useful.

How much chain between windlass and anchor shank should I leave?

How are you reinforcing the deck below the winch ?

I was going to use a syitable sized peice of marine ply

Will the cleat be too close to the winch to provide a fair lead ? (Assuming a rope drum and chain gypsy). How are you going to secure the chain when anchored ?

Yes, I think that needs resiting further aft.

This is the windlass:

I was going to use a 'chain grab' to secure when anchored, I presume the cleat would need to be located slightly to the starboard side? How far aft of the windlass would be ideal?

 

[West Coast]

I had a Griffon where the previous owner had sealed off the lower compartment from the upper by glassing in a new floor in the upper compartment. He provided drain holes from this upper compartment through the hull with small fairings. The chain (40 metres of 8mm chain) was stored in this upper compartment. This arrangement worked OK, although weight distribution not so good perhaps

 

[PaulRainbow]

From my experience that type of windlass will not work very well with the setup you propose. The rope will not come around the windlass and drop through the deck into the locker without fouling. You'll basically be trying to push a rope down a hole. I managed because my locker had a lid and i could lightly pull the rope and guide it into the locker. Think you'll be best to use all chain.

 

[Tranona]

Rather than a pipe you may find an open sided chute better, although i have used 4" drainpipe reasonably successfully. Agree that all chain would be better.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

On my own boat, 80m of 10 mm chain I have always had issues with the chain piling up and jamming. During the refit, after removing the pipe with a view to sorting the problem, I never got round to refitting or redesigning the pipe. I now find that the chain just falls straight into the locker and fills the space without any jamming. The conclusion is that the end of the pipe at bunk elevation actually caused the issue as the drop was too short once the chain pile had reached a certain point.

By removing the pipe I have also gained about 18" of leg space in the forecabin bunks as the chain can now be puled forward when at anchor to clear the bunks. When at sea in open water I can remove the chain and close off the deck penetration, at anchor I will use some hard rubber/neoprene split to fit around the chain (not don't that yet).

So, perhaps the high fall from directly below your new windlass without any chain pipe might work better for you without a pipe. I would certainly try it before installing a pipe. Of course a pipe directs any water below the bunk and the bunk cushion needs to have a cutaway at the edge cushion.

 

[Jokani]

I think the best thing I can do is to fit the windlass in the best position possible, then try with a temp pipe, if no problem fit permanently, if it jams consider not fitting the pipe.

I would rather the pipe if possible, just to contain the water and other anchor chain mess.

I'm not so worried about legroom, as this bed is not often used, and when it is, it'll be used by short kids.

I am committed to at least trying 30m chain plus 30m of anchorplait, as that is already on it's way from Jimmy green.

As with most things, it looks as though It's a case of finding the best balance/compromise!

 

[sailaboutvic]

Question Gary , do you anchor in more the 6 mts if not why do you need the rope 30 mts of chain will do the job . ? I agree with what paul said , I don't think the rope will drop through .
Plus 30 mts of rope sitting in the bottom of your locker will only rot at some point as it will be wet most of the time

 

[PaulRainbow]

I am committed to at least trying 30m chain plus 30m of anchorplait, as that is already on it's way from Jimmy green.

As with most things, it looks as though It's a case of finding the best balance/compromise!

Make sure you have an allen key to fit those two allen bolts that hold the clamshell shaped guide in place Gary. The rope will jam in there and you'll need to take the cover off. Ask me how i know this :ambivalence:

 

[Jokani]

Question Gary , do you anchor in more the 6 mts if not why do you need the rope 30 mts of chain will do the job . ? I agree with what paul said , I don't think the rope will drop through .
Plus 30 mts of rope sitting in the bottom of your locker will only rot at some point as it will be wet most of the time

All good questions/points!

To date I have done very little anchoring, only 2 or 3 times last season, the last time I was single handing, with a 2 knot tide running it was almst impossible to pull the anchor up by hand, hence why I am keen for a windlass this season. Depth of water that time was 10m, but I only had a short scope as it was only for a quick fishing session.

I guess most times it would be 6m or less, but i intend to keep the boat for a few years, And though a greater length would prove useful.

I though that a combination of chain and anchor plait was common for use with windlasses, and I wouldn't have a problem. I recall seeing plenty piled at the bows of other boats in the yard during the winter. maybe it's more for when you have crew to sort it out as it is pulled up?

If all chain is definitely the best option, I will ring Jimmy Green's first thing on Monday to see if it is not too late to change my order.

 

[PaulRainbow]

One other suggestion Gary, be at the bow when hauling the anchor, even with all chain. The chain is vastly more unlikely to to jam in the windlass, but if it does and you're still running the windlass it'll jam really tight. If you're single handed and you've jammed the chain partially recovered you can soon get in a muddle.

One of these :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RECOVERY-...190991?hash=item2363247ccf:g:ePIAAOSwInVXHcAU

is a handy addition. They aren't particularly waterproof but with sensible use they work really well.

If you have crew get them to slowly motor forward as you retrieve the slack chain, rather than haul the boat forward with the windlass. It will last a lot longer and cane your batteries a lot less. If you're on your own it makes the work for the windlass easier if you haul the catenary up then pause for a few seconds for the weight of the chain to pull the boat forward.

 

[Jokani]

Thanks for the suggestions, sounds sensible.

Plus this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RECOVERY-...190991?hash=item2363247ccf:g:ePIAAOSwInVXHcAU

Is far cheaper than this:

http://estore.coastlinetechnology.com/Windlass-Remote

 

[PaulRainbow]

Thanks for the suggestions, sounds sensible.

Plus this



Is far cheaper than this:

http://estore.coastlinetechnology.com/Windlass-Remote

Indeed. I had one of the Ebay ones on my last boat for four years, still working when i sold her. Just got one to fit on my new boat.

 

[Len Ingalls]

You might consider removing the central cleat. Install two new cleats P & S & move the chock/fairleads aft to give a clean foredeck for mounting windlass. Similar to this : https://www.dropbox.com/s/4tkavg2pfp9syqx/Anchor & propane locker non-watertight hatch..JPG?dl=0

 

[Jokani]

You might consider removing the central cleat. Install two new cleats P & S & move the chock/fairleads aft to give a clean foredeck for mounting windlass.

I was considering that. Looking at the existing fairlead backing plates , they could have degraded over time, I think relocate and replace at the same time would be in order, with a cleat each side.

What is that device that is securing the anchor chain in the picture?

 

[Len Ingalls]

I was considering that. Looking at the existing fairlead backing plates , they could have degraded over time, I think relocate and replace at the same time would be in order, with a cleat each side.

What is that device that is securing the anchor chain in the picture?

It is an "over center " latching chain stopper. Not strong enough to use for mooring. I use it to keep anchor from launching itself while stored. It has some threaded adjustment so keeps anchor tightly in the anchor launcher. Not a bad rig for that purpose.
https://windline.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=134
Shop around-they are usually available at less than listed on this mfgr's website.

One thing about P & S cleats-you really should use some type of bridle for long term anchoring so that bow points to anchor warp,rather than off one side of bow.
I also found that a spliced eye in rope bow lines & in bridle ends,dropped over cleat & led out thru chocks that are close to cleat,as in pic, chafe very little. I suppose it has to do with the fact that there is very little length of rope between cleat & chock,so no appreciable stretch chafing occurs. Also,the splice is actually in the chock,so rope is effectively double thick.
I very rarely have to use chafe protection.

Bridle consists of approx 10ft of 3/4" 3 strand nylon(medium lay) with a spliced eye for one cleat & a spliced thimble for the rope rode. You double the rode,push the double thru thimble,give the eye a twist to double it again & insert the wood thru rode. Then,bring the rode to other cleat & tie it to put the thimble device in line with anchor & boat center line.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wocim0zk85r7hre/AADSurOWZJPqeez58Uy2p5GBa?dl=0

 

[Tam Lin]

Slight Fred drift. Have you had a good look at your current bow roller? I had to replace mine because the welds were cracking and I know of another Centaur which had the same problem. It would be annoying to fit another one then find out you had to replace the original one.

 

[Seajet]

The amount of chain suggested seems a literally staggering weight for a Centaur to carry.

Just a suggestion, if singlehanded how about putting the engine in tickover forward and an autohelm 2000 with a remote control ?

 

[Jokani]

It is an "over center " latching chain stopper.

One thing about P & S cleats-you really should use some type of bridle...

Thanks for the info, that looks quitea set up!

Slight Fred drift. Have you had a good look at your current bow roller? I had to replace mine because the welds were cracking and I know of another Centaur which had the same problem. It would be annoying to fit another one then find out you had to replace the original one.

TA Tam Lin, it looks OK at the moment. My intention is not give the additional roller a substancial backing plate, then bolt or weld the two together, so that the new support the existing.

The amount of chain suggested seems a literally staggering weight for a Centaur to carry.

Just a suggestion, if singlehanded how about putting the engine in tickover forward and an autohelm 2000 with a remote control ?

When I bought her, she had (60m of 7mm chain), I thought I was downsizing in that respect. I thougth 30 + 30 would be a sensible amout to carry. Sure I would not use it most trips, but 10m depth and 6:1 could be required in the future, or am I plainly over speccing?

That trip was my first ever single handing, I didn't have the confidence to use the engine and not be at the tiller. I have a few more mile under my belt now so I would probably do as you suggest if the same circumstances were to arise again.