New users guide! Can we do this?

[srm]

...and I (gosh this is a bit too personally identifying, but whatever...) occasionally refer to my boat as "an old plastic caravan with a sail on top"

I imagine I'll now be in trouble somewhere for nautical blasphemy!

Blasphemy? No, just an accurate description of many old and not very old boats.

 

[William_H]

OP has come to a forum of boat lovers for advice. All good advice given. Except the basic question do you need a boat and will it all end up being a good idea or a bad idea? Boat ownership is a unique passion. Ownership is very remote from actual experience. I know this because I look out on so many boats moored near me where owner never uses or even visits the boat. Perhaps 5% of owners use and get their value from their boats. Meanwhile boat rapidly deteriorates when in the water or just with time. They can not be left to fend for them selves.
I think the best holiday option is touring by car and staying at B and B etc. Or travel over seas. Yes money straight down the drain but not as much as boat ownership.
Sorry to sound negative and of course completely out of step with all the boat owners on this forum. But not every one is crazy enough to own a boat. if you are not driven to boat ownership you are probably not crazy enough. ol'will

 

[Bouba]

OP has come to a forum of boat lovers for advice. All good advice given. Except the basic question do you need a boat and will it all end up being a good idea or a bad idea? Boat ownership is a unique passion. Ownership is very remote from actual experience. I know this because I look out on so many boats moored near me where owner never uses or even visits the boat. Perhaps 5% of owners use and get their value from their boats. Meanwhile boat rapidly deteriorates when in the water or just with time. They can not be left to fend for them selves.
I think the best holiday option is touring by car and staying at B and B etc. Or travel over seas. Yes money straight down the drain but not as much as boat ownership.
Sorry to sound negative and of course completely out of step with all the boat owners on this forum. But not every one is crazy enough to own a boat. if you are not driven to boat ownership you are probably not crazy enough. ol'will

Yes you are right…there is no logical sense to buying a boat as opposed to renting when you want to.
The main reason we buy is a feeling of pride of ownership. It’s a hobby, often all consuming…if we are not using our boats we are working on them or on here reading and writing about them.
But you have overcome the biggest initial hurdle to boat ownership….you are onboard as a couple…,spousal support and approval is everything in boating.
This is what my world looked like when I got up this morning.,,

 

[Bouba]

Staying on theme….there are rules when boating as a couple…rule one is don’t watch ´Master and Commander’ before you go boating. We did, and onboard I said to her that her role is like the ship’s surgeon, a friend but at the end of the day the captain is always right…her reply was, when you look like Russell Crowe you can act like Russell Crowe

 

[Mister E]

At Pwhelli there a many large motorboats that never go out to sea. Some may be lifted every few years of more.
They are used as floating holiday homes with some users on board for the summer.
I would imagine this is the same in a lot of marinas in areas where people want to holiday.
So people do use boats as floating caravans as it would be cheaper than some of the more exclusive nicer caravan parks. Some of those chalets are really expensive and the parks are very restrictive about age and usage.

 

[Bouba]

There are alternatives to static caravans…towed caravans and motor homes…then the world is your lobster and you can park it in your driveway

 

[ridgy]

Why buy either? Look on parkdean and you can rent statics all over the country, especially out of school holidays, for relative peanuts. 130 sometimes for a long weekend. I've stayed in loads and always wondered why anyone in their right mind would buy one.

Try renting a.boat on the Norfolk broads via hoseasons and see how you get on. Then hire a canal boat. Then one on the french rivers. Look at all the interesting things you could do instead of sitting in Milford haven in the rain,. spending money even when you aren't there.

 

[Refueler]

OK .. having gone through the caravan / mobile home stuff myself ... diovorce / temp res in UK etc ... I can give some figures for those who have no idea about it .... (my figures are based on 2004 - so will be significantly higher today !!).

25ft Motor Sailer : £10,000
Annual pontoon berth incl Lift out at end of season - Lift in start of season, Water but electric at cost via meter. : £2500
Insurance to be at least 3rd Party with 'Wreck Recovery' about £50 per annum

Static 27ft Mobile Home purchase - largest on site - Hayling Island (no winter usage allowed - March > October only) £5500
Annual ground rent incl water and 2 large Gas ballons per year ... electric at cost via meter : £5500
Insurance (Park had block policy for all vans on site - note cheaper than any offered separately ... Park Owner did not add anything on top). About £100 per annum.

The maintenance costs of the static - as I was required to maintain small garden and the small frontage outside fence as well as the van ... fencing etc actually proved higher cost than the boat overall !

Note the Park was one of few that had Vans older than 10yrs. The van I bought was probably about 15yrs old or more - but in excellent condition. Insurance usually will be reluctant to offer cover for older than 10yrs - its main reason you see such as Warner etc selling off what appear to be VGC vans .. they have hit that age limit. But Parks such as I was with - negotiated Block Policy for entire park.

I have great memories of that van ... and would be happy to do again ... even my Russian Wife loved it and mentions how good the people were on site. The Sunday Roast by the on-site Club was one of the best ever ...

The boat on pontoon ... great memories as well ... but can I say one is better than other ? No in all honesty. They both served their purpose in flying colours ..

 

[Bouba]

OK .. having gone through the caravan / mobile home stuff myself ... diovorce / temp res in UK etc ... I can give some figures for those who have no idea about it .... (my figures are based on 2004 - so will be significantly higher today !!).

25ft Motor Sailer : £10,000
Annual pontoon berth incl Lift out at end of season - Lift in start of season, Water but electric at cost via meter. : £2500
Insurance to be at least 3rd Party with 'Wreck Recovery' about £50 per annum

Static 27ft Mobile Home purchase - largest on site - Hayling Island (no winter usage allowed - March > October only) £5500
Annual ground rent incl water and 2 large Gas ballons per year ... electric at cost via meter : £5500
Insurance (Park had block policy for all vans on site - note cheaper than any offered separately ... Park Owner did not add anything on top). About £100 per annum.

The maintenance costs of the static - as I was required to maintain small garden and the small frontage outside fence as well as the van ... fencing etc actually proved higher cost than the boat overall !

Note the Park was one of few that had Vans older than 10yrs. The van I bought was probably about 15yrs old or more - but in excellent condition. Insurance usually will be reluctant to offer cover for older than 10yrs - its main reason you see such as Warner etc selling off what appear to be VGC vans .. they have hit that age limit. But Parks such as I was with - negotiated Block Policy for entire park.

I have great memories of that van ... and would be happy to do again ... even my Russian Wife loved it and mentions how good the people were on site. The Sunday Roast by the on-site Club was one of the best ever ...

The boat on pontoon ... great memories as well ... but can I say one is better than other ? No in all honesty. They both served their purpose in flying colours ..

That brings up an interesting point…a 25 ft caravan is going to give you lots more living space than a 25 ft boat. So if the OP just wants a vacation home on the water (which is reasonable) then they might be looking at something more expensive than a caravan to get the same living space

 

[DinghyMan]

Why buy either? Look on parkdean and you can rent statics all over the country, especially out of school holidays, for relative peanuts. 130 sometimes for a long weekend. I've stayed in loads and always wondered why anyone in their right mind would buy one.

Try renting a.boat on the Norfolk broads via hoseasons and see how you get on. Then hire a canal boat. Then one on the french rivers. Look at all the interesting things you could do instead of sitting in Milford haven in the rain,. spending money even when you aren't there.

Same here, we use Parkdean and Haven and have paid sub-£100 for a long weekend

A friend spent £80k on a static then £12 p.a. for fees, at three years old it was sold for £35k after arguing up from £25k, almost makes sailing cost effective....

 

[Mister E]

Same here, we use Parkdean and Haven and have paid sub-£100 for a long weekend

A friend spent £80k on a static then £12 p.a. for fees, at three years old it was sold for £35k after arguing up from £25k, almost makes sailing cost effective....

Some sites demand a cut of the sale price and get awkward about passing on part fees for the rest of the season.

 

[Sailing steve]

Same here, we use Parkdean and Haven and have paid sub-£100 for a long weekend

A friend spent £80k on a static then £12 p.a. for fees, at three years old it was sold for £35k after arguing up from £25k, almost makes sailing cost effective....

Your friend is not alone in having his pants pulled well and truly down.

A mate of mine is a broker for one of the largest static/park home dealers in the south east and he assures me the entire industry is the most effective way of parting the gullible from their money on the planet...

 

[Bouba]

Your friend is not alone in having his pants pulled well and truly down.

A mate of mine is a broker for one of the largest static/park home dealers in the south east and he assures me the entire industry is the most effective way of parting the gullible from their money on the planet...

Better than the marine leisure industry?

 

[Refueler]

Some sites demand a cut of the sale price and get awkward about passing on part fees for the rest of the season.

Most sites actually are the vendor / buyer of the vans.

Its unusual for a site to agree for a van to be brought to site that they haven't setup and sold.

 

[Refueler]

Same here, we use Parkdean and Haven and have paid sub-£100 for a long weekend

A friend spent £80k on a static then £12 p.a. for fees, at three years old it was sold for £35k after arguing up from £25k, almost makes sailing cost effective....

80K ??? That's some static and must be a full year occupancy / Winter version ...

 

[Bouba]

80K ??? That's some static and must be a full year occupancy / Winter version ...

There can be a lot of codicils in these parks....no year round occupancy....no subletting....only sell to the managing company....

 

[Refueler]

There can be a lot of codicils in these parks....no year round occupancy....no subletting....only sell to the managing company....

The limitations are usually because of the Park Licence issued by Local Authority. I became close friends with the owner of the Park I was in .. and it was interesting listening to him about it.

The 12 month occupancy has serious Fire and Safety rules and not easy to obtain such licence.

Subletting - most parks as I know - do allow it - BUT the lett must be through the Park Office. On the Park I was - we could set whatever rate per night we wished - but Park Office had a fixed 'commission' charge which had to be covered within that rate.

As to buy / sell the units - already mentioned that most Parks are the Dealer of the units and also buy back agents. This is for two main reasons (putting aside obviously the profit margin) :

1. Units would be setup by Park personnel to Park standards as part of the deal.
2. Units would be of similar style / size keeping uniform conformity along with % coverage of the allocated slot.

Usually also included in the Licence Conditions.

 

[Sailing steve]

Better than the marine leisure industry?

Both have significant expertise in rinsing their clients for every penny they've got of course, but at least with the marine industry there's rather less restrictive practices and it's both easier to make ownership somebody else's problem and less chance of getting mugged when you decide to get out.

 

[DinghyMan]

80K ??? That's some static and must be a full year occupancy / Winter version ...

We have seen them new at £120k+ and friends was 50 weeks only not residential, site fees up to £12k p.a., but you could let private and/or through site

They used to have a "guaranteed income" sticker in the window of the ones for sale showing how much you would make renting through the site, COVID put an end to that, rental appeared to barely cover site rent, if that

One of the sites we use occasionally were quoting £1k p.a. to provide internet to the mobile and you could only get top rental prices if you paid it - relative was really interested in getting one but soon came to their senses

Years ago I was involved buying them in bulk for export, new for £5k, exported and then rented out for five years, sold on for £5k

 

[Concerto]

For the past 4 years I have owned a 38ft static caravan. Bought at 18 months old on a site in Cheshire and well away from the coast. About 80% of the vans are used as the main residence of the owners despite being a holiday home site with usage for 10 months a year with 7 weeks in January and Febuary with the site closed to comply with the site planning permission. Most owners then go travelling abroad during this period or staying with friends. The site fees for our caravan is only £2475 per year plus electricity. Water, rubbish collection and rates are included in the fee. This is very cheap compared to many sites as there is no clubhouse, shop, swimming pool etc. A small part of the site has lodges with full residential use but they then have to pay rates and can be sold by the owner to anyone. We have found it to be far cheaper to own and use plus more flexible than renting cottages to visit our daughter. However having just moved to Cheshire, we shall be selling it shortly after some work is completed on our new house. Then no doubt we shall get stung when the site buys it back unless I can find a buyer who wants to buy the caravan and move it off site which is the only other option.