New (to me) sailboat, new to the hobby, help me spend my savings!

[ShinyShoe]

Not sure I entirely agree with the VHF advice.

1. Yes you do need a certificate of competency to use except in an emergency, except on M1 & M2. That probably cover a lot of potential use. But certificate makes sense to do especially as you have it thrown in.

2. You need a ship's licence. No-one will ever check it. But it's free so get it.

3. You have a rather old Silva. Check it's waterproof status. You will potentially be carrying it in the dinghy.

4. Test it by calling NCI on ch65

5. Handheld may well be fine. But you have a fixed set, so why not use it if it works. (Battery required)

6. Don't put an antenna on the rail. Height is the most important thing. Put it up the mast. It's presumably already there.

7. The Silva is presumably NiCd or NiMH... Charge it. Leave it on. See how long it lasts. A modern HH will last > 24hrs with a Li battery.

 

[PaulRainbow]

It really does, I put it through a reliable meter to work out my power needs whilst rendering - it's a Eurocom and it has not one but two 330W powerbricks, so a higher specification one could draw more, and that's not even the top end powerbrick they provide, they do a 700+ one. They make laptops with desktop components, so I have one with an i7-8086k, overclocked and an RTX2080 desktop card.

By my calculations though, it's pulling 1.67A, but I'm no electrician!

Make your mind up, is it drawing 400w or 1.67a (20w)?

Your reliable meter doesn't seem that reliable to me.

 

[SleepyWill]

Make your mind up, is it drawing 400w or 1.67a (20w)?

Your reliable meter doesn't seem that reliable to me.

Well, my computer ships with 2 330w power supplies, it runs a processor rated at 180W alone, and a graphics card rated at 240W continuous - and when rendering, according to HWMonitor, they are both utilising 100% of their capabilities so I'm going to say my meter was, if anything low.

It is my understanding that Power (W) = Potential Difference (V) * Current (A), so 400=240A, A=400/240 = 1.67A

As I said, I'm no electrician, so feel free to correct my maths if it's wrong

 

[SleepyWill]

Ah, I think I see your mistake! You assumed I had plugged my computer into a 12v system to work out how much power it was using! I guess being a marine electrician, you see the world in 12v!!! No, I decided to work out my power usage before buying a system, otherwise how would I know what to buy, so I took my laptop power measurements from the UK mains.

 

[Iliade]

I've got an old car battery you can have. They worked for me for years. You don't want too big a battery set or she'll never heel over! Seriously though, Pavillion Batteries in Hove are trade suppliers and far cheaper than Halfords et al.

I ran my old laptop off a 12v-240v inverter and the power consumption was horrific. I now run my Macbook off a cheapo ebay/Amazon dedicated 12v to Mac 19v or whatever car adaptor (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Charger-MacBook-display-13-inch-Magsafe/dp/B00KYYU8T0) and the current draw is up to 60w/3.65A.

My wind generator probably supplies enough power to run both the heating and the laptop 24/7 in the UK! I also have a 150w folding solar panel from Photonic Universe but wouldn't want to try to stow it in a small boat.

Better to get a laptop which uses less power than to try to power a monster on a boat with just an outboard.

Most boat electrics and electronics are cheaper in 12v flavour and certainly more available second hand. Yes you'll need bigger wires, but she is only 22' from stem to stern!

If not yet done, change all lights to LED. That will lower your power demand hugely. Osculati do some really nice ones which I had fitted to my Centaur for a few years: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LED-Navi...282753992060?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

+1 for dyneema on the keel but do look up how to knot the stuff as it can creep out of most knots under load. You may find you only have space for it if it is talurit spliced. These are very cheap to get done but will reduce the strength of the line considerably. Parafil terminations are safer but will set you back some £50/pair.

Don't waste too much of your life on the gelcoat crazing. Fixing it properly is far too much work for the value of the boat. Get some gelcoat matched to the topsides colour, sand out a 'V' then fill by all means, but only when getting bored at anchor somewhere. (P.S. You'll never get paint to hide them.)

Captain Tolley's creeping crack cure is available in large bottles and may need several applications to finally address topsides leaks.

 

[pvb]

Well, my computer ships with 2 330w power supplies, it runs a processor rated at 180W alone, and a graphics card rated at 240W continuous - and when rendering, according to HWMonitor, they are both utilising 100% of their capabilities so I'm going to say my meter was, if anything low.

It is my understanding that Power (W) = Potential Difference (V) * Current (A), so 400=240A, A=400/240 = 1.67A

As I said, I'm no electrician, so feel free to correct my maths if it's wrong

If you were to power the same 400W laptop from your 12v boat supply, it would take over 30A. To supply that current reliably, you'd need a bank of 5 or 6 batteries. Oh, and a reliable way to charge them too.

 

[langstonelayabout]

Please, spend your money on making sure your boat is mechanically watertight and safe. Hull, any skin fittings (manual bilge pump please), keel and rudder (lifting, function & security), rig, furling and reefing, standing and running rigging and sails as well as anchor and mooring.

You really don't need any electrics unless you power them up now and they instantly work. Put them to priority number 2 or 3.

When your boat was built it (probably) didn't have any electrics so unless you are planning on sailing overnight in your first season, the electrics come later. You should be able to maintain a dry (as in: not wet at all) bilge with an A22. Watertightness is one of your priorities.

And, of course, learn to service your outboard. Remember to buy and keep a spare sparkplug if you use a 2-stroke engine. This, and the tools to fit it needs to be kept near the engine and bone dry as it will be needed with little notice.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Ah, I think I see your mistake! You assumed I had plugged my computer into a 12v system to work out how much power it was using! I guess being a marine electrician, you see the world in 12v!!! No, I decided to work out my power usage before buying a system, otherwise how would I know what to buy, so I took my laptop power measurements from the UK mains.

I assumed you would be powering the laptop from the boats DC system, but feel free to correct me if you have a really, really long shore power cable, or a 240v AC generator onboard.

So, i guess you'll be running the laptop from an inverter when you're away from shore power. The 400w @ 240v that the laptop is drawing then becomes 40a @ 12VDC.(PVB was correct at 30a, but that doesn't factor in the inverter inefficiencies).

Not sure how long your laptop would be drawing 40a for, but that would discharge a 110ah leisure battery about as much as you'd want to go, in one hour. Ballpark figures, if your laptop drew 400w for three hours in one day, it would take all of the output of a 200w solar installation for that same day. That's without any other loads.

The generator in paragraph one may be a worthwhile consideration, but it won't make you any new friends in quiet anchorages.

Apologies if i missed a comment somewhere that you'd only use the laptop when in the marina with shore power, the thread is long and my time short, i only skimmed through it all.

 

[SleepyWill]

Better to get a laptop which uses less power than to try to power a monster on a boat with just an outboard.

...

Don't waste too much of your life on the gelcoat crazing. Fixing it properly is far too much work for the value of the boat. Get some gelcoat matched to the topsides colour, sand out a 'V' then fill by all means, but only when getting bored at anchor somewhere. (P.S. You'll never get paint to hide them.)

Captain Tolley's creeping crack cure is available in large bottles and may need several applications to finally address topsides leaks.

A small computing device that runs off a usb battery bank is the current plan, Moonlight has made it possible to keep the power consumption (which can't be lowered really, it's surprisingly difficult to tell software to go slower than it's actually able too, without directly undervolting your computer on a hardware level - and that brings a whole new set of problems - I did forget that I would only bring one power brick, inverters to that spec are expensive, so I would only be drawing 230W, but it's theoretical now) at home and still let me access it with mobile signal. That entirely cuts the need for anything more than the base electronics in the boat, which from distilling from everyone's advice, for me will be - Radio, nav lights, cabin lights, depth meter & log. Let's call the lights, total 5w, and the nav light 3w, let's call the depth sounder another 6w, the radio 5w standby and say 5w extra to allow for transmitting. Total wattage: 24. A 1200 wh leisure battery should cover that for 24 hours at a weight of 25kg. Any power gain by the solar/wind is a bonus.

Interesting about the dyneema - I am not fussed about a £50 pair of parafil terminations, not when it's holding my keel! I think I'll need to speak with Seajet about this, he will surely know what can fit. I'm assuming I can only check this with the keel up, and without support underneath, I'll not be lifting it - so some organisation required!

The only thing I'm worried about when it comes to the gelcoat cracking is water ingress, not fussed about how it looks, so long as the fibreglass and resin are sound. I've heard Captain Tolley's is great, so for the cracks I'll give it a go, but the chipped bits where fibreglass is exposed I would liek to do it properly. To be fair though, I understand your point that it's not worth the value of the boat repairing them, but the value comes in learning a skill and knowing, every time you get on a boat, I fixed that, which can be priceless!

Please, spend your money on making sure your boat is mechanically watertight and safe. Hull, any skin fittings (manual bilge pump please), keel and rudder (lifting, function & security), rig, furling and reefing, standing and running rigging and sails as well as anchor and mooring.

You really don't need any electrics unless you power them up now and they instantly work. Put them to priority number 2 or 3.

When your boat was built it (probably) didn't have any electrics so unless you are planning on sailing overnight in your first season, the electrics come later. You should be able to maintain a dry (as in: not wet at all) bilge with an A22. Watertightness is one of your priorities.

And, of course, learn to service your outboard. Remember to buy and keep a spare sparkplug if you use a 2-stroke engine. This, and the tools to fit it needs to be kept near the engine and bone dry as it will be needed with little notice.

Haha, don't worry, they are literally priority 12, on my list of jobs. I get it, it's the same in cameras, everyone goes mad about a new camera being released, it's the bit with all the fancy toys and screens etc, no-one cared much about the actual craft of photography in online discussions, but the reality is, a new camera body comes way down the list of priorities when the desire is to improve your photography. It's the same here, it's the (and it's my fault for talking about them so prominently in my opening post) issue that everyone has an opinion about! And those opinions are all valuable, but I must confess, I'm skimming most of them because there's bigger priorities that I 'm doing now - for example, my front hatch is leaking: through the hatch seal, through the screws and around the glass! I'm looking at new ones and thinking, for the time and effort saved, it might be better to replace and have done with. If I do, from what I understand, it's brilliant if the screw holes line up, but there is no guarantee. Is changing to a different brand a sensible idea? A lewmar "size 44" hatch is 509mm while the houdini is 500mm square. can I place something like a flush mounting lewmar over the hole giving me a 5mm lip all around, or is this idea a non starter without opening up the hole to match?

 

[clyst]

The main initial spend will be 'time and effort' ! Yes sort out a battery and possibly solar power so you have light while you are slaving away at night.
get her properly dry inside and ensure that she will remain dry; where has all the recent water come from. be brave get that skanky tender out of the bag, a good clean may reveal a gem ( like an avon redshank/start.
A budget of £2000 could be all you need but start with the basics first.

For dinghy cleaning use nothing other than " Gummostrip" , Force 4 sell it , it does exactly as it says on the tin . I was about to throw away a seago really ,really manky dinghy but tried Gunmmo strip and it came up like new .......really impressed with the product .

 

[ryanroberts]

400W is an insane amount of kit to run continuously from batteries. I thought mine was OTT at 120 full tilt, and I run that from 6x120Ah batteries and a Kw of batteries. I'm going to have to rethink that if/when I get on a proper boat.

Teamviewer or similar is a good idea, I try to do a lot of the more intensive compilation work with cloud rather than local resources. But I do most of my interaction with that using text based terminals or web applications. I don't know your domain, but text / command line stuff is lot more suitable for dodgy internet connections, especially with https://mosh.org/. Remote desktop work is very latency / bandwidth sensitive, especially with graphical surfaces.

 

[Concerto]

Please, spend your money on making sure your boat is mechanically watertight and safe. Hull, any skin fittings (manual bilge pump please), keel and rudder (lifting, function & security), rig, furling and reefing, standing and running rigging and sails as well as anchor and mooring.

You really don't need any electrics unless you power them up now and they instantly work. Put them to priority number 2 or 3.

When your boat was built it (probably) didn't have any electrics so unless you are planning on sailing overnight in your first season, the electrics come later. You should be able to maintain a dry (as in: not wet at all) bilge with an A22. Watertightness is one of your priorities.

And, of course, learn to service your outboard. Remember to buy and keep a spare sparkplug if you use a 2-stroke engine. This, and the tools to fit it needs to be kept near the engine and bone dry as it will be needed with little notice.

I thoroughly agree with these comments. The only extra points are make sure you have some spare shear pins for the propeller and a pole to test water depth with the keel raised and to use to push off if you ground.

 

[zoidberg]

G'd ar'ternoon, again, SleepyWill. There's lots of good pointers coming your way.... and some of 'lesser stamp'. This place gives First Division input from people who really know their onions, as well as Third Division 'bolleaux' from them wot don't. 'Sorting wheat from chaff' is one of the fun things....

It's good that you've acquired both a fixed Marine VHF set - and a Handheld. They both need to go onto your Ships Licence from OfCom. There are very good reasons for that. I note you're a bit wary of transmitting yet, which is understandable, and that there's a Course thrown in by your Training Provider. The RYA have formal delegated responsibility to manage the provision of training/examination for the legally-required Short Range Certificate via approved/vetted Training providers. Here's a link - www.rya.org.uk/courses-training/courses/specialist/Pages/src.aspx

The 'Marine VHF' world is part of the international 'GMDSS' world-wide marine safety and emergency network, on which professionals and we amateurs all rely, so access and use is formally regulated. That's the only Licence one is legally required to have, to sail in UK waters..... apart from Harbour Authorities' annual mooring 'licenses'. There are those who will tell anyone who listens that 'no-one needs to bother with all that stuff', but they don't take responsibility if/when unlicensed users' kit is confiscated.

There are plenty of ways for one to get up to speed with effective use of Marine VHF..... RYA-Approved taught courses, online courses, informal 'buddy' coaching, but there's a quite formal test/exam to pass, and there's a fee for that. An essential part of every approved course is access to the RYA's latest VHF Handbook G31 or E-G31 ( marine-radio-short-range-certificate-course&code=srcc )

The training syllabus on which the exam papers are based has changed significantly, quite recently, incorporating over 30 changes. Training Providers should not now be using/issuing outdated VHF course handbooks, but these are certainly still being sold by chandlers and boaty booksellers to unsuspecting yotties. Does this matter? Well, yes, if you fork out for a course and also for an exam - which you fail due to having 'all the right answers to the wrong questions', to paraphrase the famous Morecambe & Wise/Andre Previn sketch, because the course handbook you bought and studied is seriously obsolete....

This is a small part of your overall preparation of boat and self, but I'm presuming you won't want to waste your money and your time getting it wrong..... and having to do it again. The info above is right - and bang-up-to-date. I know whereof I speak....

 

[TSB240]

This place gives First Division input from people who really know their onions, as well as Third Division 'bolleaux' from them wot don't.

The 'Marine VHF' world is part of the international 'GMDSS' world-wide marine safety and emergency network, on which professionals and we amateurs all rely, so access and use is formally regulated. That's the only Licence one is legally required to have, to sail in UK waters......

News to me and many others perhaps you would like to correct this Third Division BS! It is a licence to operate or manage other non licenced users to operate a marine VHF radio.

It has nothing to do with any legal requirement for sailing in uk waters.

There is plenty of audible evidence of many unqualified radio operators quite legally sailing or boating in Uk waters most weekends! Who is to know if they have a qualified radio operator on board who may be coaching them (badly?) or not as is more likely.

 

[zoidberg]

I stand by what's published - see OfCom website.

Radio spectrum and the law - 18 January 2018

In the UK the use of any radio transmitting device is required to be either licensed or specifically exempted from licensing under the Wireless Telegraphy Act 2006 (WT Act 2006)........
.....Other than as used in accordance with a licence (or exemption), the use of radio equipment is illegal.

OfCom operates a warranted police force, each member with the powers of 'constable'. They're generally chasing 'bigger fry', it's true, but don't imagine for a moment that they don't have powers and the will to use them. There's not a lot to be gained by giving the finger to the law on this when there are real benefits from 'buying in'.

 

[ShinyShoe]

The training syllabus on which the exam papers are based has changed significantly, quite recently, incorporating over 30 changes.

Seen this posted before. Where is the change log for this? Where are these 30 changes so crucial that you might fail?...

... When has anyone actually failed a VHF course? Could they not make a mayday? ... Not aware of a mayday change since GMDSS came to exist

 

[Sticky Fingers]

News to me and many others perhaps you would like to correct this Third Division BS! It is a licence to operate or manage other non licenced users to operate a marine VHF radio.

It has nothing to do with any legal requirement for sailing in uk waters.

There is plenty of audible evidence of many unqualified radio operators quite legally sailing or boating in Uk waters most weekends! Who is to know if they have a qualified radio operator on board who may be coaching them (badly?) or not as is more likely.

I stand by what's published - see OfCom website.
...
OfCom operates a warranted police force, each member with the powers of 'constable'. They're generally chasing 'bigger fry', it's true, but don't imagine for a moment that they don't have powers and the will to use them. There's not a lot to be gained by giving the finger to the law on this when there are real benefits from 'buying in'.

The point that TSB240 is making is that the operation of the radio is nothing to do with 'sailing in UK waters'. You're free to sail wherever you like, no license needed, unless you want to use the VHF - it's the possession of, and use of, the VHF that must be licensed. Two separate licenses required. So semantics maybe.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Seen this posted before. Where is the change log for this? Where are these 30 changes so crucial that you might fail?...

... When has anyone actually failed a VHF course? Could they not make a mayday? ... Not aware of a mayday change since GMDSS came to exist

It has changed, including changes to the Mayday Relay procedure. A change notice is here:
https://www.rya.org.uk/training-support/Documents/TG35-19_SRC_course_changes.pdf

 

[ShinyShoe]

So. If I (as trained) made a mayday relay in the exam using a DSC urgency message... would i fail?

Coz none of the other stuff ventures close to grounds to fail.

Just as there will be people who making PAN MEDICO calls for another 30 years, there will be DSC urgency used for mayday relay and no-one will die...

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

So. If I (as trained) made a mayday relay in the exam using a DSC urgency message... would i fail?

Coz none of the other stuff ventures close to grounds to fail.

Just as there will be people who making PAN MEDICO calls for another 30 years, there will be DSC urgency used for mayday relay and no-one will die...

This is in the pdf Scala provided the link for:-

"Assessors may have exam candidates who haveundergone the course either online or in the classroom prior to the changes coming into force. Toaccommodate this, SRC Assessors are requested to be flexible and use their judgement during both writtenand practical exams. Students who have been taught the previous Distress Relay protocol and whodemonstrate during their exam the use of an Urgency Announcement should not be penalised but should begiven guidance on the correct protocol during their debrief. The same applies to other areas such as usingthe term ‘alert’ instead of ‘announcement’ and the inclusion of other items not previously taught in thecourse."