New (to me) sailboat, new to the hobby, help me spend my savings!

[Sticky Fingers]

You mention Chichester harbour. To keep or use a boat there requires that you purchase a licence each year from the Harbour Conservancy office at Itchenor. The entitlement is shown using a hull plaque (basically a sticker); you get a different one each year. If you have a dinghy then you are supposed to buy a licence for that too but many do not. A team of inspectors finds non-licensed offenders and tracks the owners down. Don't ask me how I know.

They run April - March. Cost for a 22' / 7m boat is £55 this year.

Link:
https://www.conservancy.co.uk/page/harbour-dues-and-charges

 

[SleepyWill]

You mention Chichester harbour. To keep or use a boat there requires that you purchase a licence each year from the Harbour Conservancy office at Itchenor. The entitlement is shown using a hull plaque (basically a sticker); you get a different one each year. If you have a dinghy then you are supposed to buy a licence for that too but many do not. A team of inspectors finds non-licensed offenders and tracks the owners down. Don't ask me how I know.

I've been in contact with them from before I even started looking for a boat to get a handle on the figures, and even though I know full well I'll need one, they haven't mentioned it once, only the price of various moorings and whether certain boats are allowed on certain moorings!

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Not surprising. When I kept my boat there, someone at my marina told me the thing was included in the berthing fees and it turned out not to be.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

I don't think you've mentioned how old your son is, but the fact that you can remember what baby vomit smells like gives a clue. If he's sub-teens then after hatch and keel I'd be concentrating on checking the rig, ropes and as a dinghy racer, deciding whether you can bear to sail it with the sails you've got. (I did my first year hating mine, but they hadn't really cost me anything and we still won some races) That sentence could have spent your £2k.... Then go round looking at the rest of the gear making sure you've got a boat that's reliable and good to sail - make it easy to tweak everything so that he can get involved as he learns (outhaul, main and jib cunninghams, pole up and down, twinning lines etc.).

Then downstairs - it needs to fresh smelling, dry and bright. He should have spaces of his own for a read/play/lie down and to store his essential stuff. Electrics have been covered by others, but I'd go for a dry battery for the echosounder if it's a simple one, hand held vhf, stick on lights, then worry about nav lights and charging as jobs for the summer.

 

[NickRobinson]

""My insurance is already sorted, and paid for the year, ""

With or without a survey? I've been looking at fix-up boats since Sept and found no one will quote for Comp Ins without a recent (or new) survey. Third party a different matter. PM me if you'd prefer or I'll watch here-
Fair Winds (code for 'we must be mad buying boats in winter'...)
N

 

[TSB240]

Lots of good advice given so I will try and not repeat any. I am surprised nothing heard from Andy yet!

Don't get hung up on electrical power. Priority is a dry boat....
If the water is coming in from above the water line replace or repair houdini hatch. Check all through fasteners for leaks (Talcum Powder? search forum for how to use to find leaks)
Just check that the anchor locker drain is not blocked and it is not full to the brim and leaking into the bow. (guess how I know this!)

My absolute fear with our vertlcal drop keel was failure of the lifting mechanism. I changed the wire strop every two years. Any sign of wire "stranding" and you are at risk of losing your keel through the bottom of the boat. Some modern designs are now using using Dynema rope or webbing rather than stainless steel for lifting. This has been retrofitted in a number of older designs. It can also be an advantage to take the hoist through the cabin top over a pulley protected by a vent cowling via a clutch to a deck top mounted winch. This makes keel raising easier outside rather than in a cramped forecabin. Dyneema can be specified with the same or greater UTS than a stainless wire and is much happier on tight radius turns.

Whilst the mast is down get the VHF aerial and cable replaced. I have never had one last longer than 5 years without significant drop off in performance. I will always buy low loss cable and the best antenna available . Speak to Salty John of this "Parish"

Check your VHF radio out on receive and transmit on all channels by asking a neighbour or friend to swap it for his for a trial. I am sure your local NCI would love this!

A boat your size has no need or requirement for any masthead electrics. I fitted an LED steaming light whilst mine was down as I wanted the minimal output from the outboard charging coil going into charging the battery!
I used a simple 10 w clip on solar panel to maintain charge combined with a regular motor in and out of harbour . Battery from scrap yard . Shore power lead from caravan shop with rcd and 3 standard 13 amp sockets , cheap low power kettle, back up lidl/aldi trickle charger and a small oil filled radiator for when shore power available.

Once your boat is dry it is nice to stay dry and warm whilst using it :encouragement:. This on our boat was made easier by fitting a low profile spray hood and an overboom cockpit tent. Not so easy on a boat with minimalistic side decks. I know Andy will be having an apoplectic fit having read the first part of this suggestion.

Steve

 

[SleepyWill]

I don't think you've mentioned how old your son is, but the fact that you can remember what baby vomit smells like gives a clue. If he's sub-teens then after hatch and keel I'd be concentrating on checking the rig, ropes and as a dinghy racer, deciding whether you can bear to sail it with the sails you've got. (I did my first year hating mine, but they hadn't really cost me anything and we still won some races) That sentence could have spent your £2k.... Then go round looking at the rest of the gear making sure you've got a boat that's reliable and good to sail - make it easy to tweak everything so that he can get involved as he learns (outhaul, main and jib cunninghams, pole up and down, twinning lines etc.).

Then downstairs - it needs to fresh smelling, dry and bright. He should have spaces of his own for a read/play/lie down and to store his essential stuff. Electrics have been covered by others, but I'd go for a dry battery for the echosounder if it's a simple one, hand held vhf, stick on lights, then worry about nav lights and charging as jobs for the summer.

He's 9, but has a learning disability so more like 6 - he probably won't be too interested, certainly not at first but if he wants to come along and just watch the water and daydream, that's fine by me, if and when he wants to get involved, even better! Interior is really clean (at least it was before I spent an hour today bailing out the v-berth lakes, tomorrows job, mop up the brown water I trailed through today!) though I'm sure I'll find some grubby corners - but that can wait until closer to next year!

""My insurance is already sorted, and paid for the year, ""

With or without a survey? I've been looking at fix-up boats since Sept and found no one will quote for Comp Ins without a recent (or new) survey. Third party a different matter. PM me if you'd prefer or I'll watch here-
Fair Winds (code for 'we must be mad buying boats in winter'...)
N

Without, I was let down by two surveyors. Guess I should expect it on such a low value job. I went with insure4boats, but I checked with Chichester harbour as they specify that your insurance should be with a reputable company, they said they were fine. Fully comp all year and for racing, 3 million liability and a laundry list of personal accident covers too. No survey asked for - may have been a different story if it was a higher value though, and I don't doubt that if there is anything that a survey would have picked up that they can use as an excuse, I'll find that I wasn't covered - Schrödinger's insurance policy so to speak - so the plan is to do all the jobs I know about and when the surveyors are less busy, and I'm not under the stress of being in the middle of a purchase being funded by selling camera equipment - I'll get the survey done then, and with a bit of luck it'll not catch anything!

Lots of good advice given so I will try and not repeat any. I am surprised nothing heard from Andy yet!

Don't get hung up on electrical power. Priority is a dry boat....
If the water is coming in from above the water line replace or repair houdini hatch. Check all through fasteners for leaks (Talcum Powder? search forum for how to use to find leaks)
Just check that the anchor locker drain is not blocked and it is not full to the brim and leaking into the bow. (guess how I know this!)

My absolute fear with our vertlcal drop keel was failure of the lifting mechanism. I changed the wire strop every two years. Any sign of wire "stranding" and you are at risk of losing your keel through the bottom of the boat. Some modern designs are now using using Dynema rope or webbing rather than stainless steel for lifting. This has been retrofitted in a number of older designs. It can also be an advantage to take the hoist through the cabin top over a pulley protected by a vent cowling via a clutch to a deck top mounted winch. This makes keel raising easier outside rather than in a cramped forecabin. Dyneema can be specified with the same or greater UTS than a stainless wire and is much happier on tight radius turns.

Whilst the mast is down get the VHF aerial and cable replaced. I have never had one last longer than 5 years without significant drop off in performance. I will always buy low loss cable and the best antenna available . Speak to Salty John of this "Parish"

Check your VHF radio out on receive and transmit on all channels by asking a neighbour or friend to swap it for his for a trial. I am sure your local NCI would love this!

A boat your size has no need or requirement for any masthead electrics. I fitted an LED steaming light whilst mine was down as I wanted the minimal output from the outboard charging coil going into charging the battery!
I used a simple 10 w clip on solar panel to maintain charge combined with a regular motor in and out of harbour . Battery from scrap yard . Shore power lead from caravan shop with rcd and 3 standard 13 amp sockets , cheap low power kettle, back up lidl/aldi trickle charger and a small oil filled radiator for when shore power available.

Once your boat is dry it is nice to stay dry and warm whilst using it :encouragement:. This on our boat was made easier by fitting a low profile spray hood and an overboom cockpit tent. Not so easy on a boat with minimalistic side decks. I know Andy will be having an apoplectic fit having read the first part of this suggestion.

Steve

Check all through fasteners for leaks (Talcum Powder? search forum for how to use to find leaks) - Thankyou for this tip!

On the lifting mechanism, that's a pretty significant fear for me too - the keel can't drop out but I can't imagine it will be pretty for her hull if she takes that impact while on her mooring.

I hear what you're saying about not needing electronics on the masthead, it's definitely something to think carefully about, I think I'm inclined to agree. I have nothing against spray hoods, and at the risk of incurring Andy's wrath, I would consider it an absolute necessity for something like crossing to Scandinavia (another of my future plans) but in the harbour and the Solent, if the weather's that bad I probably won't be allowed to go sailing anyway - and my wife's veto has sadly just been given an adrenaline boost due to the last time I went and did something against her advise, an hour after saying goodbye, I was being put into the back of an ambulance having flayed my finger after I fell off my mountain bike (South Downs - Sharp flint!) Tomorrow will be my first bike ride since (but now we're really off topic!)

 

[NickRobinson]

Thanks for the heads-up, Insure4boats- N

 

[DownWest]

Great thread about getting started on cruising... Best give up the Darwin Award activities like mountain biking and settle down to a surprisingly safe one like sailing..
Lots of good advice above. Forget the fancy electrics for the moment. A simple lead/acid battery will power the depth sounder (only thing needed) and what ever lights are needed with solar charging. A hand held GPS will give any nav info.
Save the budget for essentials like sails (second hand can be good) and bits that realy need fixing.


There is a temptation to look at the mags and think that that the stuff advertised is essential. Not really, Get a bit of time out there and work out what might be useful. At least with your dinghy time, you don't have to worry about how to point it.

Edit: Not to mention that you don't need to wear a wet suit , as capsize is less likely

 

[johnalison]

Don't expect a young child to be as excited about sailing or the surroundings as you are. This doesn't mean that they are unhappy. Getting used to the idea that being cold, uncomfortable, shouted at, and having to wait for food is a normal part of life.

 

[Biggles Wader]

I certainly wouldn't bother with a survey after you bought the boat as they are expensive and probably wont tell you anything you don't know by now. Much like expensive batteries best to save the money until you identify essential items you do need. Just get it seaworthy and enjoy sailing it.

 

[obmij]

A cockpit mounted chart-plotter is incredibly useful. No matter how much shit is hitting the fan you will know where you are.

You will also know where you absolutely should not be. If you set it up right you will also have an easy to follow track to safety.

The do not draw much power at all, are cheap, waterproof, reliable & can be read equally well in bright sunlight or at night.

Yes - you can probably save a couple of quid by navigating with a phone or tablet, but a dedicated plotter is right there in front of you when you need it most.

 

[Concerto]

A cockpit mounted chart-plotter is incredibly useful. No matter how much shit is hitting the fan you will know where you are.

You will also know where you absolutely should not be. If you set it up right you will also have an easy to follow track to safety.

The do not draw much power at all, are cheap, waterproof, reliable & can be read equally well in bright sunlight or at night.

Yes - you can probably save a couple of quid by navigating with a phone or tablet, but a dedicated plotter is right there in front of you when you need it most.

Useful but not essential. Being an East Coast Sailor, you have to be very aware of how much water you have under the keel and I assume that would be the same in Chichester Harbour. Most channels are fairly well marked in shallow water, so a cockpit chart plotter is not needed, just a good chart.

In the distant past I used to race a 22ft drop keel yacht (fixed down when sailing) for day sailing. It had no battery, no nav lights, no log or echo sounder, no VHF. All it needed was a compass and a Windex. The outboard lived virtually all its life in the locker as the boat was able to sail fast and only used when there was no wind. I doubt if the OP's outboard would make 6 knots anyway to come in Chichester Harbour against the tide. It did have a single burner hob and an Elsan toilet, but in 4 years neither was used. So OP, keep to the very basics initially and see what you need, not buy everything and waste lots of money. Follow the KISS principal. You have been used to dinghy sailing in a 16ft Wayfarer, so what difference will there be by adding 6 ft if you are day sailing?

 

[langstonelayabout]

Hi everyone! I've just bought a boat, and I'm very excited. So here's what I know - she's an Anderson 22

Good choice for a solid, seaworthy and enjoyable boat to sail.

Enjoy your sailing!

 

[langstonelayabout]

On lead acid and Lithium, I prefer Lithium for the weight, and I can get a 24v 55ah battery for £450 (24v is cheaper even after the 12v conversion for the amount saved in cable thickness), while lead acid to the same specification would cost £300, and am I correct in thinking I would need two of them as you shouldn't discharge them below 12.2v making them both heavier and more expensive? If this is one of _those_ topics, chalk me up on the lithium side, I'm not wanting to get derailed, especially when the electronics is candidate number 1 to be pushed to another year!

An 85Ah lead acid leisure battery should cost you around GBP 70.00, but leave it to another year as you will have plenty of essentials to spend your cash on.

Get the boat waterproof top/bottom first. There is a chandler in Fareham that sells the rubber seal for Houdini hatches. They might be your first stop.

Standing rigging. If it isn't new, renew it. Ocean chandlery on Thorney island is your first stop for a quote. (Seajet's friend John got his rigging replaced there and was very pleased at price and quality).

Cleanup (pressure washer!) and ensure the stainless forestay structure at the bow has been fixed. Speak to Seajet on this one.

Fix or replace anything to do with safety and sailability before thinking about electrics, cooking or soft furnishing. Also, make sure your sails are serviceable including the genoa roller reefing. Does the rudder lift, lower and work correctly without excessive play? Fix it.

Keel. I'd throw the wire and use dyneema (did this on my E-Boat when the dyneema lasted 4x the life of the wire, and have tried both stainless and galvanised wires, both 'nasty' at the end of the season).

 

[langstonelayabout]

""My insurance is already sorted, and paid for the year, ""

With or without a survey? I've been looking at fix-up boats since Sept and found no one will quote for Comp Ins without a recent (or new) survey. Third party a different matter. PM me if you'd prefer or I'll watch here-
Fair Winds (code for 'we must be mad buying boats in winter'...)
N

My (few years ago) experience with N&G taught me that they will insure boats of 24' or less fully comp as 'small craft' without survey, but the onus will be on you to prove your boat was seaworthy in the case of a claim.

 

[langstonelayabout]

I'll check the anchor chains!!

Assuming that you will be mooring/sailing at LSC, checking the mooring chains will be one of your first jobs, as everyone will be on work parties checking the moorings prior to the start of the season.

Muddy? Yes. Good education as to what a mooring is/does and feels like? Definitely, and priceless. To add to your education on moorings, ask someone to see the club's specification/drawing on swinging moorings as it's well worth a look and you can understand what's buried in the mud better once you've seen it.

And anchor chains? reasonable anchor, about 10-20m of 8mm chain and the rest 12mm rope will be an ideal rode. At risk of starting an anchor discussion, I tend to use a Delta or Bruce out of choice but CQRs and Danforths seem to work well in the mud locally.

 

[Topcat47]

That is quite a saving! Lead acid is back on the table! I'm assuming, given the price difference that the leisure batteries can't provide high amps, which I wouldn't need but something like a wheelchair would?

Furneaux Riddle in Portsmouth are worth a visit regarding simple boat electrics. I buy my batteries and boat lights there these days. Your "red" internal lamp sounds like a night vision lamp. Domestic lights are usually white. Go for leds.

Lidl and Aldi frequently sell multiplait ropes (8 & 10 mm) and they''l do fine for running rigging and even warps in the short term. You'll need something bigger for a swinging mooring but most chandlers have bargain buckets of "ends" I don't know where you're based but Ocean Chandlers in Emsworth (previously Sea Teach) are my go-to in Chi Harbour. They do a good range of budget sails too.

 

[Skylark]

You’ve just bought a boat and it’s November! That proves your credentials, utterly mad, well done and welcome

I have nothing to add only encouragement.

After a few dinghies my first sea boat had a lifting keel and it failed, fortunately in Port Dinorwic outer harbour, where it was recovered and repaired. You need to get yours sorted such that you have confidence in the mechanism.

The insurer asked me to provide an owner’s survey. This was quite an instructive process. It drove me to inspect every aspect of the boat in a structured way.

I strongly agree with others, your priorities should be mechanical. Basic electrics for nav lights should suffice if funds are tight. Tide tables, charts and a pilot book are needed for navigation. Creature comforts, especially if you’re trying to win-over family, should be a higher priority than electronics. Learn how to use the compass and log.

Have fun, be safe, fair winds

 

[dolabriform]

Useful but not essential. Being an East Coast Sailor, you have to be very aware of how much water you have under the keel and I assume that would be the same in Chichester Harbour. Most channels are fairly well marked in shallow water, so a cockpit chart plotter is not needed, just a good chart.

In the distant past I used to race a 22ft drop keel yacht (fixed down when sailing) for day sailing. It had no battery, no nav lights, no log or echo sounder, no VHF. All it needed was a compass and a Windex. The outboard lived virtually all its life in the locker as the boat was able to sail fast and only used when there was no wind. I doubt if the OP's outboard would make 6 knots anyway to come in Chichester Harbour against the tide. It did have a single burner hob and an Elsan toilet, but in 4 years neither was used. So OP, keep to the very basics initially and see what you need, not buy everything and waste lots of money. Follow the KISS principal. You have been used to dinghy sailing in a 16ft Wayfarer, so what difference will there be by adding 6 ft if you are day sailing?

Wot he said :encouragement: