New (to me) sailboat, new to the hobby, help me spend my savings!

[northwind]

I presume the laptop is rendering or crunching data, so why take it with you? You could drastically reduce your hassle, power consumption and risk by keeping at home and using team viewer or similar to monitor it on a tablet. Consider using notifications to your phone to alert you to any issues. You aren't for now going to be sailing anywhere outside of mobile coverage...

 

[SleepyWill]

I presume the laptop is rendering or crunching data, so why take it with you? You could drastically reduce your hassle, power consumption and risk by keeping at home and using team viewer or similar to monitor it on a tablet. Consider using notifications to your phone to alert you to any issues. You aren't for now going to be sailing anywhere outside of mobile coverage...

That is a very interesting idea! I'll have to investigate teamviewer, but at a cursory glance, this could definitely work!

 

[wombat88]

Weelie bin. No better way of getting to understand your outboard than taking it home, servicing it and learning its foibles.

So that's a ladder and a weelie bin and a motor that works. Add some basic safety gear, radio and an echo sounder and you have most of what you need for Chichester Harbour. The rest can come later.

Just a thought. If the family are new to sailing make it as easy for them as possible to start with. Children can get bored on boats quite quickly. Getting too and from boats and putting them to bed is even more boring for them. I know it sounds bonkers but just consider keeping the boat in a marina for the first year. The costs will likely be more than the value of your boat but offset any of the following if applicable, parking, club fees, dinghy storage, mooring, winter storage. Add that lot together and it comes to quite a sum to make a proper comparison.

The benefits are obvious. You can step onto it. The whole family can step onto to it without fear. In an Andersen you can leave Chichester Marina at virtually any time and the lower the tide the less the traffic. If you live nearby you can nip down to the boat and fiddle with something for an hour or just quickly take the boat out. Minimum hassle, maximum boat use.

 

[ShinyShoe]

Then we come back to the electronics. You say the larger capacity plan is bonkers - but your only criticism of it is the price. I understand it's an expensive option, but this is my way of thinking, let me know if I'm still being bonkers:
<Snip>
Able to draw full power (400w) and I must be able to check it's progress once a while and click a restart button if it gets itself into a mess. (Also it can't be used for anything else, it can't be used as a chart plotter).
<Snip>

OK.
So the real question is do you need to draw that power all the time or just when arrived at anchor.

So is it 400w X 24hrs X days at sea?

Secondly does it actually draw 400w? All the time? Or just at odd peaks? You'd ideally know it's average consumption doing your rendering on the power supply (12v).

Would you be at anchor? Or ever in a marina?

That is a massive power draw. 33amps at 12v.

That feels unrealistic to power from 12v battery (or 24v) for any length of time if that's the real power draw...

But also from a charging perspective... If you are using it one weekend and back the next you have 5days max to recharge from solar. If you look around you get probably about 1/3rd capacity of a panel, for probably 8hrs max in UK summer. So if you need that much power you will never be able to recharge it unless you are connecting up a massive bank of panels.

I'd actually be considering:

1. Would it be better to have the computing done somewhere else with access to monitor that from the boat via 4G (depending on your sailing area).

2. Generator power

Not saying LiPo isn't the answer, but especially if you are adding 24v it seems to be adding a whole extra bank oh headaches

3. Can your laptop do the processing on its battery? If so - what are the options to bring some spare batteries and charge on mains at home before coming.

It may sound like I've made up my mind, but genuinely I haven't, mostly as a result of all your excellent help, and so I'll be leaving the battery until dead last to do, once every other job is done. When I know how much I have to spend, then I can plan accordingly.

Suspect you will want some form of 12v before then though!

Would you help me understand why an inflatable kayak which fits into a backpack is more difficult to carry than the child vomit bag currently entirely filling the back seats of my car, surely that is far more difficult to carry? Imagine I get it out, clean it up and it's brilliant. I would still be tempted by something that much smaller and lighter - but I must be missing something!

Ah no.. a kayak will be easier for you to transport! I means a dinghy is easier to transport "stuff" in.

You are going to arrive on a windy Friday night. With child (not sure on age). You will be bringing - food, clothes, drinking water, possibly boat bits, tools etc. A laptop. A switch. You will then need to paddle all of that out to the mooring without it getting wet. Unload it onto the boat.

Then on Sunday evening having spent two days at sea repeat the process to go ashore.

It may be possible to paddle out. Then bring boat alongside a pontoon to load /unload.

It's certainly possible to use dry bags. But you start needing several / multiple journeys. Even getting them off the kayak into the boat doesn't become simple. With a dinghy they stay on the dinghy while you get off. Then you reach back to get them.

 

[northwind]

That is a very interesting idea! I'll have to investigate teamviewer, but at a cursory glance, this could definitely work!

You also need to consider how you are going to recharge your battery bank. I had a 26 footer on a mooring in Church Rithe; outboard powered, we had a 85ah battery, with solar and shorepower. As said before you need to get an idea of how much power was needed vs the means you have to replenish the power. When cruising for a week, we would go into a marina for a couple of nights to recharge batteries and devices, but never felt we didn't have enough power. Consider using things like USB batteries for devices. I run my own business so need to be able to work in an emergency. and there were 2 adults and 3 children on board.

With regard to sailing with Children.. as keen as you may be, the rest of your crew may get bored quickly... Many of our trips when they were younger was from our mooring near to Northney to East Head for lunch and playing on the beach, trips the children fondly remember. The advantage being the return trip is quite often a nice beam reach back up the Emsworth channel, and a pleasant day out.

 

[northwind]

I know you are looking at Langstone SC, I had a mooring in Church Rithe, which is opposite the entrance to Northney, we launched the dinghy from Northney, and being a lifing keeler, we could access the boat at pretty much any state of tide (touched the bottom about 1hr either side of low water springs). Northney charge around £220 per year to use their slipway, loos and car park, which is pretty good value and low hassle.

 

[SleepyWill]

It's certainly possible to use dry bags. But you start needing several / multiple journeys. Even getting them off the kayak into the boat doesn't become simple. With a dinghy they stay on the dinghy while you get off. Then you reach back to get them.

Aha, I see what you're saying! I had not considered that at all! Thanks!

The wattage draw is fairly consistent, but it wouldn't be for 24 hours. 4 to 6 hours at the most. My calculations come out at 2600 being plenty for a weekend. That being said, the teamview idea is viable, I've spoken to a colleague who does exactly this, I'm going on a bike ride with him next weekend and test it out, so it might be a null point - and I'm also testing the switch on a battery bank, seems to be charging well enough, so it's looking very strongly that I can drop my silly idea of a big battery in a small boat!

 

[SleepyWill]

So that's a ladder and a weelie bin and a motor that works. Add some basic safety gear, radio and an echo sounder and you have most of what you need for Chichester Harbour. The rest can come later.

Just a thought. If the family are new to sailing make it as easy for them as possible to start with. Children can get bored on boats quite quickly. Getting too and from boats and putting them to bed is even more boring for them. I know it sounds bonkers but just consider keeping the boat in a marina for the first year. The costs will likely be more than the value of your boat but offset any of the following if applicable, parking, club fees, dinghy storage, mooring, winter storage. Add that lot together and it comes to quite a sum to make a proper comparison.

The benefits are obvious. You can step onto it. The whole family can step onto to it without fear. In an Andersen you can leave Chichester Marina at virtually any time and the lower the tide the less the traffic. If you live nearby you can nip down to the boat and fiddle with something for an hour or just quickly take the boat out. Minimum hassle, maximum boat use.

Already have a ladder!

The marina prices aren't out of reach, and I certainly would appreciate the benefits - though for me, I'll be joining the club anyway (If only because joining and paying new membership this year will be cheaper than paying the storage fees I'll owe them if I didn't join!! - but in all honesty, I grew up belonging to a sailing club and the members have been fantasticly helpful, so I feel that no matter where, I'll be joining regardless.)

 

[Daverw]

Just to add that don’t forget you can very easily test your electrics with any old small car battery connected, you would not be looking at drawing that much power and at least know if stuff actually works. If the electrics are really bad connect each directly via fused flying lead

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Already have a ladder!

The marina prices aren't out of reach, and I certainly would appreciate the benefits - though for me, I'll be joining the club anyway (If only because joining and paying new membership this year will be cheaper than paying the storage fees I'll owe them if I didn't join!! - but in all honesty, I grew up belonging to a sailing club and the members have been fantasticly helpful, so I feel that no matter where, I'll be joining regardless.)

The stability of an inflatable tender vs a kayak would be safer (how do I know this?).
Re Competent Crew vs Day Skipper; most sailing schools will teach CC and DS simultaneously on the same boat, but why not have your wife do the Theory Course and DS also?

 

[SleepyWill]

The stability of an inflatable tender vs a kayak would be safer (how do I know this&#55357;&#56879.
Re Competent Crew vs Day Skipper; most sailing schools will teach CC and DS simultaneously on the same boat, but why not have your wife do the Theory Course and DS also?

That is another brilliant idea!

 

[ShinyShoe]

Aha, I see what you're saying! I had not considered that at all! Thanks!

The wattage draw is fairly consistent, but it wouldn't be for 24 hours. 4 to 6 hours at the most. My calculations come out at 2600 being plenty for a weekend. That being said, the teamview idea is viable, I've spoken to a colleague who does exactly this, I'm going on a bike ride with him next weekend and test it out, so it might be a null point - and I'm also testing the switch on a battery bank, seems to be charging well enough, so it's looking very strongly that I can drop my silly idea of a big battery in a small boat!

Several similar options.
No risk of sinking laptop in a careless move that seems a good idea till it goes wrong.
Access via phone or tablet or cheap laptop (Chromebook perhaps).

2600watts not impossible to recharge over the week. But you will always hit a capacity issue. 2600 works for weekend. But then you want to go for bank holiday but need to work. Or a week. If you can keep the heavy juice remote you are on a winner...

A stash of USB power banks is likely to be your friend, virtually everything is USB powered these days. Then some usb to recharge them...

Leaves the 12v to recharge the USB, the VHF (my new HH is even USB chargeable), any GPS plotter, Nav Lights (switch to led) and cabin lights although I bet you can get them USB if you just wanted to go USB mad!!

As someone said an SMS message in the event of a crash could be helpful... Not sure what you are rendering or how easy that might be to produce. But if there isn't something "off the shelf" I bet something can be written fairly simply that checks if the file it is writing to has increased in size in the previous 5 minutes and if not sends a message.

 

[SleepyWill]

It's official - my colleague uses moonlight - designed for games, but he's told me how to get it to run the desktop, and it's high quality enough on my tablet that I can monitor my desktop, and even move the mouse and use the keyboard - so if you're reading this, made via moonlight from my (stinky) car, driven to an area in the woods with really patchy reception then it works and I can almost certainly leave my laptop at home. One 12v leisure battery incoming!

 

[MedwaySailor]

We're not practical so I'm full of admiration for your energy and enthusiasm. Like you we upsized from dinghy to absolutely sound elderly boat at the beginning of the 2019 season. With regard to the knowledge element I vote that you do your your day skipper theory at home from any online provider. Then do the day skipper practical with a local training school, they all do Comp Crew/Day Skipper on the same course. It also means that if an attack of wealth overcame your finances you could book a flotilla holiday because you have the day skipper. We did exactly that this summer and the genuine beauty of that was that we came back knowing which toys were actually essential and which 'essentials' were just toys. I had subscribed to all the flotilla newsletters and Seafarer had a week in Greece at the end of July for £750. I'm really looking forward to your updates.

 

[MedwaySailor]

PS. We're also mad. We sold our 'sound but elderly' a couple of months ago and seeing a lot of used boats since then we put an offer in on a lovely Delphia yesterday.

 

[zoidberg]

There's a whole lot of sound guidance above, SleepyWill, and you've certainly got the enthusiasm and the 'previous' to make good use of it. Here's another tuppence worth....

Record/photograph all you replace 'before and after' for insurance purposes. A .pdf file showing work done with comments by experienced Club members ( 'lo, Andy! ) will stand in good stead should a claim ever need support.

Your anchoring AND your mooring tackle needs to be bullet-proof; it's pleasing you'll sort out the grotty shackles and eye splice yourself. Again, get someone competent to run an eye over it all.

Drinking water can be carried/stowed aboard in 5/10 litre containers. I and friends have done that for more than a couple of years - perfectly reliably.

I didn't register any mention of a VHF radio. You will certainly need one that functions. If that makes it onto your shopping list, do consider a waterproof DSC handheld which you can use in the cockpit. I'd recommend one with inbuilt GPS, plus a spare battery. One benefit is that you don't then need to sort out a duff antenna lead/duff mast top antenna. Many shorthanded sailors, with a fixed VHF, have the antenna mounted on the pushpit tubing. The effective range of such is certainly wholly sufficient for your use in/around the Solent for a year or two.

You will need a Ships Radio Licence ( OfCom ) and a Permit To Operate a DSC/VHF radio. The RYA manage the UK training; many clubs run courses during winter to keep their bars from freezing up.

You plan to use traditional chart/plotting 'for a while' and I endorse that. The best, and cheapest, source of 2B pencils is IKEA..... You may have a chart table on the A22 ( dunno, 'cos Andy 'Mr Anderson22' hasn't dragged me onto his yet ) but if not, do consider a used Yeoman Sport package ( 'cheap as chips' on here - Buy and Sell ) which uses paper charts, a GPS input from a clip-on GPS receiver, and a, electric 12v 'puck' for plotting.

Drybags are indispensable today and are also 'cheap as chips' from Aldi/Lidl.... about one-quarter the prices in chandlers. I use one exclusively for my sleeping bag, and use several others.

Certainly, LED lights. They may be fixed/powered from 12v batteries, or they may be stand-alone, powered by coin cells. I have both fitted, and the latter do not drain the boat's power. An LED camping lantern from Aldi/Lidl serves as an anchor light. Both companies offer cheap and effective LED stand-alone lighting for your A22. I also have a paraffin pressure lamp 'cos I like them, and some heat is generated to take the edge off a rainy night out on the mooring.

Let me add my welcome and good wishes to all t'others.....

 

[pvb]

- take it as red that I am able to manage my work so I'm not going to have to actively engage with it until after I have the boat safe for the night and my son has gone to bed - but that time where I'm not actively engaging with it, it's rendering, and must be on, able to draw full power (400w) and I must be able to check it's progress once a while and click a restart button if it gets itself into a mess.

Your laptop draws 30A+???

 

[FairweatherDave]

Good on you for your enthusiasm. Chichester is great. Full stop. Random thoughts......I'm not sure a ladder is required with a lifting keel boat dried out at East Head, maybe. I've got inflatable tender and sit on kayaks, the tender is the load carrier and the safe easy way to get aboard (the most dangerous bit of sailing!). Kayaks are fun for adults and kids but not great for safe transfers to mothership. Although we have a big water tank on our boat we tend to use 5 litre containers and refill regularly, tastes better. Tank water we use for washing up mostly. At the risk of upsetting those in favour of training I think if you can sail a Wayfarer competently around Chichester harbour that is most relevant. Tides and currents are not rocket science. The Day Skipper theory is useful (inpirational) but is targetted to yacht sailing. By all means do it but you can learn an awful lot simply by reading books, eg by Tom Cunliffe and by posting here. Experience gained gradually is what counts. Functioning depth guage, a handheld GPS and charts and away you go. Navionics on a tablet or a phone an optional extra . See you out there! Cobb bbq is a real asset for safely cooking in the cockpit or on the beach. Good luck with doing up the boat.

 

[SleepyWill]

Your laptop draws 30A+???

It really does, I put it through a reliable meter to work out my power needs whilst rendering - it's a Eurocom and it has not one but two 330W powerbricks, so a higher specification one could draw more, and that's not even the top end powerbrick they provide, they do a 700+ one. They make laptops with desktop components, so I have one with an i7-8086k, overclocked and an RTX2080 desktop card.

By my calculations though, it's pulling 1.67A, but I'm no electrician!

PS. We're also mad. We sold our 'sound but elderly' a couple of months ago and seeing a lot of used boats since then we put an offer in on a lovely Delphia yesterday.

Hehe, thanks for the warm welcome, and save your admiration until you see the results of my enthusiasm and energy

There's a whole lot of sound guidance above, SleepyWill, and you've certainly got the enthusiasm and the 'previous' to make good use of it. Here's another tuppence worth....

Record/photograph all you replace 'before and after' for insurance purposes. A .pdf file showing work done with comments by experienced Club members ( 'lo, Andy! ) will stand in good stead should a claim ever need support.

Your anchoring AND your mooring tackle needs to be bullet-proof; it's pleasing you'll sort out the grotty shackles and eye splice yourself. Again, get someone competent to run an eye over it all.

Drinking water can be carried/stowed aboard in 5/10 litre containers. I and friends have done that for more than a couple of years - perfectly reliably.

I didn't register any mention of a VHF radio. You will certainly need one that functions. If that makes it onto your shopping list, do consider a waterproof DSC handheld which you can use in the cockpit. I'd recommend one with inbuilt GPS, plus a spare battery. One benefit is that you don't then need to sort out a duff antenna lead/duff mast top antenna. Many shorthanded sailors, with a fixed VHF, have the antenna mounted on the pushpit tubing. The effective range of such is certainly wholly sufficient for your use in/around the Solent for a year or two.

You will need a Ships Radio Licence ( OfCom ) and a Permit To Operate a DSC/VHF radio. The RYA manage the UK training; many clubs run courses during winter to keep their bars from freezing up.

You plan to use traditional chart/plotting 'for a while' and I endorse that. The best, and cheapest, source of 2B pencils is IKEA..... You may have a chart table on the A22 ( dunno, 'cos Andy 'Mr Anderson22' hasn't dragged me onto his yet ) but if not, do consider a used Yeoman Sport package ( 'cheap as chips' on here - Buy and Sell ) which uses paper charts, a GPS input from a clip-on GPS receiver, and a, electric 12v 'puck' for plotting.

Drybags are indispensable today and are also 'cheap as chips' from Aldi/Lidl.... about one-quarter the prices in chandlers. I use one exclusively for my sleeping bag, and use several others.

Certainly, LED lights. They may be fixed/powered from 12v batteries, or they may be stand-alone, powered by coin cells. I have both fitted, and the latter do not drain the boat's power. An LED camping lantern from Aldi/Lidl serves as an anchor light. Both companies offer cheap and effective LED stand-alone lighting for your A22. I also have a paraffin pressure lamp 'cos I like them, and some heat is generated to take the edge off a rainy night out on the mooring.

Let me add my welcome and good wishes to all t'others.....

Thankyou very much - I have a handheld that is ostensibly working well, with a waterproof pouch - a Silva Star M-298 and a base station as well (as yet not investigated). I say ostensibly working because it turns on and sits on Ch16, and has a bunch of buttons that I'm too scared to touch for fear of annoying everyone in radius! My course I'm booked on gives me a free radio course, so I'll be taking that too. The Anderson interior was very much one of it's selling points to me, it does have a chart table, sink, toilet, wet gear hanging space, sink, cooker etc and it's really clever with it's use of space especially considering it has a lifting keel! My plan was always to buy the smallest 4 berth, two cabin boat that did not compromise on galley or navigation space, and the Anderson design was just superb!

Oh, and I should say, I'll never stop using a paper chart, if even because I love cartography and love maps. GPS for me is, and has always been a backup - something to turn too second!

 

[SleepyWill]

Good on you for your enthusiasm. Chichester is great. Full stop. Random thoughts......I'm not sure a ladder is required with a lifting keel boat dried out at East Head, maybe. I've got inflatable tender and sit on kayaks, the tender is the load carrier and the safe easy way to get aboard (the most dangerous bit of sailing!). Kayaks are fun for adults and kids but not great for safe transfers to mothership. Although we have a big water tank on our boat we tend to use 5 litre containers and refill regularly, tastes better. Tank water we use for washing up mostly. At the risk of upsetting those in favour of training I think if you can sail a Wayfarer competently around Chichester harbour that is most relevant. Tides and currents are not rocket science. The Day Skipper theory is useful (inpirational) but is targetted to yacht sailing. By all means do it but you can learn an awful lot simply by reading books, eg by Tom Cunliffe and by posting here. Experience gained gradually is what counts. Functioning depth guage, a handheld GPS and charts and away you go. Navionics on a tablet or a phone an optional extra . See you out there! Cobb bbq is a real asset for safely cooking in the cockpit or on the beach. Good luck with doing up the boat.

Ah, I love my cobb, it was how I cooked on the wayfarer! I have the ladder with the boat, so if it's not needed, it's a freebie anyway! In fairness, I sailed around Plymouth Sound in the Wayfarer from Cawsand Bay, so Chichester will still be a learning experience for me! I have the Tom Cunliffe books, and they really are very good indeed. It does require going out and trying - at least for me, I can't easily visualise - say - his first lesson on leaving a mooring. I read the words but until I've tried it, I won't get it, not from a book alone!

See you out there