New (to me) sailboat, new to the hobby, help me spend my savings!

[dolabriform]

Don't expect a young child to be as excited about sailing or the surroundings as you are. This doesn't mean that they are unhappy. Getting used to the idea that being cold, uncomfortable, shouted at, and having to wait for food is a normal part of life.

Have my kids been talking to you again?

 

[Stemar]

Lidl and Aldi frequently sell multiplait ropes (8 & 10 mm) and they''l do fine for running rigging and even warps in the short term.

OK to get you going, but I'm pretty sure they're polypropylene, so will suffer from UV degradation, so don't trust 'em beyond a year or two. I certainly wouldn't trust them for mooring warps, and I suspect they'd be too elastic for running rigging. Chandlers often have ends of drums that they sell off at a discount, and that would be my plan A.

 

[CJU]

If you are going to do a lot of water baling invest in a cheap wet & dry vacuum cleaner from Wickes, Screwfix etc, they do make the job much easier.
Useful for plumbing jobs at home too.

 

[SleepyWill]

Edit: Not to mention that you don't need to wear a wet suit , as capsize is less likely

.... Clearly you haven't met me! :/

I certainly wouldn't bother with a survey after you bought the boat as they are expensive and probably wont tell you anything you don't know by now. Much like expensive batteries best to save the money until you identify essential items you do need. Just get it seaworthy and enjoy sailing it.

It's more just a bum covering exercise, and an acknowledgement that I might miss something important! I was getting quotes under £300 and I've been involved in one too many court cases (one) to be happy to pay that to be able to avoid it ever again!

Useful but not essential. Being an East Coast Sailor, you have to be very aware of how much water you have under the keel and I assume that would be the same in Chichester Harbour. Most channels are fairly well marked in shallow water, so a cockpit chart plotter is not needed, just a good chart.
...Follow the KISS principal. You have been used to dinghy sailing in a 16ft Wayfarer, so what difference will there be by adding 6 ft if you are day sailing?

I'll be using paper charts to learn how to use them properly first - my old sailing grounds (Cawsand Bay) I didn't need to learn to learn navigation, I knew the water from growing up sailing it with the club but Chichester is a bit more complicated, tidally - geography - depth, and it's completely new so a great chance to learn a new set of skills! Any electronic aid will be secondary to that - I have some experience restoring old electronics, I bought an old Amiga computer and brought it back to life again, and I've managed to coax the handheld gps that came with the boat to turn on and work after a good clean (mostly - the backlight makes it turn off again), so I'll be taking it out today somewhere with a good view of the sky to see if it can reacquire satellites! If it works, even unreliably then I'll not be buying anything else, and I don't know - maybe it's because I work in front of a screen day in and day out, the thought of having one in the cockpit does not appeal at all! Inside, to check my work sure, if it makes my sailing safe where paper charts could not, sure.

I'll still need to sort out my electrics though - as I'll be so beholden to the tides, I will have to plan my trips around them and not daylight, so not sorting them out could easily cut my sailing time in half or more if I don't have working nav lights. That and being able to take my work with me could significantly change how much use I get out of the boat.

There is a chandler in Fareham that sells the rubber seal for Houdini hatches. They might be your first stop.

Standing rigging. If it isn't new, renew it. Ocean chandlery on Thorney island is your first stop for a quote. (Seajet's friend John got his rigging replaced there and was very pleased at price and quality).

Cleanup (pressure washer!) and ensure the stainless forestay structure at the bow has been fixed. Speak to Seajet on this one.

Fix or replace anything to do with safety and sailability before thinking about electrics, cooking or soft furnishing. Also, make sure your sails are serviceable including the genoa roller reefing. Does the rudder lift, lower and work correctly without excessive play? Fix it.

Keel. I'd throw the wire and use dyneema (did this on my E-Boat when the dyneema lasted 4x the life of the wire, and have tried both stainless and galvanised wires, both 'nasty' at the end of the season).

That is some great advice, thanks! I'm interested in dyneema especially for the keel. I have a nasty feeling that the hatch is leaking not only through the seal, but around the frame and through the screwholes, so I'll replace the seal first, but I am leaving enough time to rebed the hatch - also one of the clamps inside is missing, so it only shuts on three corners, so I might need to have it out anyway to take to a welder.

The forestay was claimed to have been fixed, I'll double check - you know what it's like when someone is showing you around something you are interested in buying, especially when you've looked around several - I forget, but it's worth double and triple checking!

Assuming that you will be mooring/sailing at LSC

Hoping too, but until I know I am, I'll not make that assumption - I don't know if there's usually a waiting list etc and my email has so far gone unanswered! I'll apply to go on the mooring job as soon as I get access, hopefully next week sometime! I'll be checking my anchor later today.

Furneaux Riddle in Portsmouth are worth a visit regarding simple boat electrics .... I don't know where you're based but Ocean Chandlers in Emsworth (previously Sea Teach) are my go-to in Chi Harbour. They do a good range of budget sails too.

I live a stones throw from Emsworth, so these are all local to me, thanks!

You’ve just bought a boat and it’s November! That proves your credentials, utterly mad, well done and welcome

I have nothing to add only encouragement.

Thanks! (I think) I do already have the latest folio of charts for the area, two tidal stream atlases and tide tables. What is a pilot book? I'm well versed in using a compass, but I have no idea about the log, not yet anyway!

If you are going to do a lot of water baling invest in a cheap wet & dry vacuum cleaner from Wickes, Screwfix etc, they do make the job much easier.
Useful for plumbing jobs at home too.

Well... I'm hoping not.... Better check the prices, just in case!

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Seriously everyone, thanks, I'll be reading and rereading everyone's comments many times over the coming months, I really truely appreciate it and if any of you ever see me, let me know and your next drinks on me!

 

[Daverw]

Would strongly suggest at least a depth, charts do not show all the depth detail just approximate between measured soundings. Otherwise lead and line the old way, knowing your actual depth under has always been important to know

 

[SleepyWill]

Right - here's my list of jobs!

1. I've inspected the anchors and the chains and anchors themselves are in good condition:



As you can see though, the shackles look like they could do with being replaced - however, my question is about the eye on the rope - it looks pretty bad to me, and I'm assuming it needs replacing. I'm happy to turn my hand to any ropework, but when my anchor is depending on it, I would rather a professional does it - is this a case of cutting off the splice and remaking a new one, can just the metal be replaced or is this a bigger (more expensive) job - how much would you expect to spend?

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2. Most fittings on the deck have stress fractures in the gelcoat, there are some impact type damage marks (previously filled). I've included a picture with an example of each - the worst bit is around the mast (tabernacle?) (It's not a tabernacle, I don't know what it's called, like a metal plate that the foot of the mast attaches too) - unfortunately not pictured, but I can see the fibreglass underneath, and it looks like the gelcoat has been chipped away. I'll get a picture tomorrow. What's your opinion on the job - fill the crazing, and leave the previous repairs well alone if they are watertight, or should they be redone? Again, what would you anticipate the cost of doing this (diy)?



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3. Would you say this eye needs replacing?:



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4. Any hints on cleaning a fresh water bag tank?

5. Would it be a no-no to only partially repaint my rudder? The majority of the paint is fine, it's worn on the corners and on the top down to the wood, can I dry it out and just do a bit?

6. I'm clueless when it comes to outboards, do you have an idiots guide to getting an old one working nicely?

 

[dolabriform]

Right - here's my list of jobs!

1. I've inspected the anchors and the chains and anchors themselves are in good condition:

View attachment 81805

As you can see though, the shackles look like they could do with being replaced - however, my question is about the eye on the rope - it looks pretty bad to me, and I'm assuming it needs replacing. I'm happy to turn my hand to any ropework, but when my anchor is depending on it, I would rather a professional does it - is this a case of cutting off the splice and remaking a new one, can just the metal be replaced or is this a bigger (more expensive) job - how much would you expect to spend?

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I would cut it off and replace the Eye. Splicing 3 strand is easy, and the eyes cost little:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtVL6jh9JVs

2. Most fittings on the deck have stress fractures in the gelcoat, there are some impact type damage marks (previously filled). I've included a picture with an example of each - the worst bit is around the mast (tabernacle?) (It's not a tabernacle, I don't know what it's called, like a metal plate that the foot of the mast attaches too) - unfortunately not pictured, but I can see the fibreglass underneath, and it looks like the gelcoat has been chipped away. I'll get a picture tomorrow. What's your opinion on the job - fill the crazing, and leave the previous repairs well alone if they are watertight, or should they be redone? Again, what would you anticipate the cost of doing this (diy)?

View attachment 81806

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3. Would you say this eye needs replacing?:

View attachment 81807

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4. Any hints on cleaning a fresh water bag tank?

Replace the tank. If it's a Plastimo one I'm pretty sure they sell the internal bladder separately.

5. Would it be a no-no to only partially repaint my rudder? The majority of the paint is fine, it's worn on the corners and on the top down to the wood, can I dry it out and just do a bit?

6. I'm clueless when it comes to outboards, do you have an idiots guide to getting an old one working nicely?

Here's a basic guide to servicing an outboard.
https://www.pbo.co.uk/expert-advice/how-to-service-a-2-stroke-outboard-engine-24833

 

[SleepyWill]

The wheelie bin idea is fantastic, thanks so much for the info!

 

[V1701]

The only thing I can think of that (I don't think) has been mentioned already is a tiller pilot. Not essential but very useful if you're singlehanded. They're expensive new but do come up used on ebay/preloved/gumtree quite regularly. If you're very lucky you might even find one lurking in a locker somewhere on the boat but there are alternatives, e.g. tillermate or you can DIY by attaching a couple of cam cleats to the tiller itself or something. Just to provide a means by which you can quickly lock/unlock the tiller for a minute or two while you hoist the mainsail or WHY. Good luck with everything...

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

You'll need to check all fittings that are bolted through the deck and seal any that leak. Blue paper towel is an excellent material for revealing seeping water. Search this forum for threads on re-bedding deck fittings, there are plenty.
Www.seals+direct.co.uk for neoprene hatch seals. Just in case you haven't found out yet what a Windex is, it's a sort of wind vane mounted at the top of the mast, with angled wire indicators at the rear to help judge your tacking angle. You might just use bits of ribbon tied to the shrouds.
Plenty of good advice above re electrics,etc, but my usual hobbyhorse is training - why not enrol on an RYA Theory Course? It would help with your understanding of chartwork and tides, etc and vastly increase your enjoyment of your boat, as would, IMHO, leaving the work at home

 

[SleepyWill]

why not enrol on an RYA Theory Course? It would help with your understanding of chartwork and tides, etc and vastly increase your enjoyment of your boat, as would, IMHO, leaving the work at home

I hear you, but not taking my work with me means not going - and there's no real way around it by the nature of my work. If I'm going to be working one way or the other, may as well be after a good days sailing, somewhere that's not my office! En-route, the computer only needs the occasional glance as it crunches its way through data to make sure it's not thrown an error, I can time that easily enough!

I am actually already booked on a competent crew course with my wife next year, which I think encompasses the theory course as well.

 

[wombat88]

If you are going to spend time in Chichester Harbour with children you need a ladder of some sort. They need to be able to get down onto the beach at East Head easily!

 

[Sticky Fingers]

....I am actually already booked on a competent crew course with my wife next year, which I think encompasses the theory course as well.

Almost no theory content in the comp crew. DS theory can be done online over winter and unless you already have this knowledge, you'll need knowledge equivalent to DS theory if you want to do DS Practical later as some of the tasks rely on you knowing the theory...

 

[Daverw]

“En-route, the computer only needs the occasional glance as it crunches its way through data to make sure it's not thrown an error, I can time that easily enough
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...e-spend-my-savings!/page6#wMgmmul7EMD9SZ4y.99”

I tried this and found being in work mode whilst out sailing spoilt the whole experience, let alone underestimating the concentration sometimes required whist en route. Tides, wind and other shipping take up time and don’t wait for you to finish anything, even doing a timely log can be difficult, I have wife as crew but I do most of the actual work on board.

You need to do day skipper to do route planning and nav stuff really.

 

[ashtead]

Look to see if Raymarine have any chartplotter or radar courses planned. I think they just provide the kit and taught by an excellent tutor on the radar bit . Only a day for each and very helpful for newbie users.

 

[KellysEye]

If I saw a boat in that condition I would walk away, also be careful of pension drawdown you could end up with no money.

 

[Biggles Wader]

I hear you, but not taking my work with me means not going - and there's no real way around it by the nature of my work. If I'm going to be working one way or the other, may as well be after a good days sailing, somewhere that's not my office! En-route, the computer only needs the occasional glance as it crunches its way through data to make sure it's not thrown an error, I can time that easily enough!

I am actually already booked on a competent crew course with my wife next year, which I think encompasses the theory course as well.

If you have experience sailing a Wayfarer you need something more advanced than a competent crew course. At risk of repetition I think you are wasting your money again here and should be doing a day skipper course or whatever the current equivalent is, indeed probably better value to do the basic yachtmaster level.

 

[SleepyWill]

If you are going to spend time in Chichester Harbour with children you need a ladder of some sort. They need to be able to get down onto the beach at East Head easily!

Good call!

Almost no theory content in the comp crew. DS theory can be done online over winter and unless you already have this knowledge, you'll need knowledge equivalent to DS theory if you want to do DS Practical later as some of the tasks rely on you knowing the theory...

You need to do day skipper to do route planning and nav stuff really.

If you have experience sailing a Wayfarer you need something more advanced than a competent crew course. At risk of repetition I think you are wasting your money again here and should be doing a day skipper course or whatever the current equivalent is, indeed probably better value to do the basic yachtmaster level.

Ah, OK - I'm doing competent crew because my wife wants to do it and doesn't want to do it alone, it sounds like I might want to invest in day skipper theory and practical then - do you think I will need to spend that money on the courses before I venture out of the harbour, or will dinghy navigation skills suffice until I do?

If I saw a boat in that condition I would walk away, also be careful of pension drawdown you could end up with no money.

Different strokes for different folks - part of the experience for me is improving a boat, not buying exactly what I want. I guess if I were looking to spend £5000+ on a boat, I could be snobby about the condition, but I hate snobbiness, and I hate the wasteful attitude of turning the nose up at a perfectly decent boat because it requires a bit of elbow grease. No worries about the pension though, I only spend money I have earned, banked and not set aside for anything else. I'm sure there are financial wizards out there who can manage debts and credits and make them work, giving them a better spending power than me for the same income, but I earn money, I set aside for bills, and other commitments, and then I spend or save what's left! (No criticism intended of you obviously, when I say I hate those things, I mean more that I hate how they make me feel when I indulge in them, couldn't care less about how others choose to live their lives!)

 

[ShinyShoe]

I'm not sure I would not have described this as a project. However, be wary of people who say "back in the day - we went to sea in a pair of wellies, an old oilskin and with nothing but the sun to navigate by"... They are of course correct - you need very little to actually sail. But you will probably feel safer if you have more gear.. and feeling safer means feeling less stressed which means more enjoyable...


QUOTE=SleepyWill;6971984]
Her sails are old, and her standing rigging appears in good shape. Her running rigging has started to grow all sorts of interesting plantlife however.
[/Quote]
Wash them. If they don't come up to spec, replace them. But keep the old stuff for spare for things like fender lines etc.

Her forward hatch appears to let more water in than falls from the sky and her bilges under the v-berth have quite the interesting lake developing inside. These bilges do not appear to connect to the main, so I'm home from having discovered it, drinking up the milk so I can cut the bottle in half to bail them out tomorrow. The main bilges had a decent amount of water in them, they were dry last week, but the bilge pump reduced the level down to a cm or so before pumping air. I put a tarpaulin over her today to try to keep any more water from getting in.

If this was my boat, getting it water tight would be my priority. I don't know A22. Should the bilges connect? Do they and is the connection blocked? Could they? If not... I'd be considering adding a second bilge pump. Is you bilge pump manual or electric?

The battery is dead, the state of the rest of the electronics is unknown, assumed dead by the amount of water I emptied from each componant. I got one light to switch on above the chart table, but it was really dim and red. It may be a night vision light as there is a paraffin lamp just next to it, but I'm assuming not - it really is so dim that I'm assuming it's malfunctioned.

You want reliable electrics. This would be my second priority. Depending on bilge pump being electric it may partly be first priority... (My preference would be to have auto bilge pump with battery and solar - capable of dealing with your keak so you arrive to a reasonably dry boat or you spend the first part of your day pumping before you can start to try to find the leak you thought you already fixed.

There is a really nice wood flooring inside, but it's just beginning to lift inside the companionway.

mmmm

She has a lifting keel, the winch is rusty but seems sound enough, however the steel line is doing it's very best to turn into barbed wire, loose strands sticking out everywhere.

So this has to be second priority unless you want to put it down and lock it there forever!

The state of the sails is unknown, as is the state of the outboard, though the guy who sold it to me is completely trustworthy and said they were alright. The tender made my car smell like baby vomit, I'll probably not even open it's bag! There are two electronic things embedded in the hull, I'm assuming one is a depth sounder. Sadly they are both embedded in the v-berth lake, so condition, unknown, assumed not working.

With no electricity to the sensor it may be OK.
Tender - jet wash it and leave it out for a bit. Tow it for a bit when you start sailing...
OB - big bucket // bin. Clean Fuel. Get it going well. It is your get out of jail card. Does it have a power takeoff? Even a lights circuit?

LiFePo Battery, solar panel to complement the existing rutland 504 (Spins well enough, can't say if it's working though) and a gigantic control panel, so in the future I can add a matched battery and a second solar panel and still not stretch it. Why this much power? I plan on taking my son away for the weekend and letting him recharge his switch and keep my laptop running.

Bonkers. So many times over.
Yes LiFePo can drain lower, yes it is lighter. But the cost is huge. You will get a decent Leisure battery for <£100, a basic charge controller for <£20. Future upgrades should come later! Solar and battery size depends what power draw you anticipate!. What does your laptop draw? How many hours will it be on? What does a switch need to charge? Can a switch charge from a USB battery bank? You need a power consumption plan. Based on what you are connecting. How long for. How long between charges.

I need a new GPS as I doubt the one with the boat will turn on after it's been dried, it also had batteries leak into it's insides.

Do you need a GPS or a chart plotter. Or would you use the laptop? Laptop not waterproof. So not great for cockpit. But some people use a cheap tablet in a waterproof case in the cockpit. Either directly running nav software or using vnc etc to relay it from a 'pc' at the 'nav' table.

Your phone can likely do similar. If son has a switch does he have a phone too? You now have 2 nav devices!! I'd want one to send position to DSC radio. So I'd think of using the laptop with OpenCPN and a USB GPS and with a serial output (via USB) as my economy option. (Assuming you really want the laptop with you!)

I need new lights inside.

Yip. led. If cost needs watched and power an issue. Consider battery powered ones.

The handheld radio appears to work, and the big radio doesn't seem to have been affected too badly by the moisture, but I haven't had it turned on yet.

Is it DSC?

Nav lights are unknown, the mast is down but I have no idea how to test them!

Connect battery
Find switches

Inflatable kayak for a tender from decathlon.

Not convinced. Hard to carry gear. You going 2 up?
I bought a 2.1m tender a few year back (new) for <£200 on eBay.
Start by exploring what you have.

I would quite like to have a sculling rowlock fitted on the back,

Sounds fab. Reality. With a child on board. An old boat things will break. Live with the OB!

 

[SleepyWill]

Thanks Shiny Shoe, that's a fantastic reply!

The sails have now been investigated, cleaned and they are in really good condition. Not new, but I have a full set that's only seen two or three years use, and look really good!

My up and coming jobs are to replace and re-splice the rusted thimble, and two shackles on the anchor line - if all goes to plan, the cost will be a marlin spike and the new hardware - and to replace the houdini hatch seal and hope that sorts the watertight problem - cost, let's say £100 for the seal + tools. If it needs lifting and resealing, add another £30.

Once I get those done, I am waiting on a couple of quotes for the keel.

Then we come back to the electronics. You say the larger capacity plan is bonkers - but your only criticism of it is the price. I understand it's an expensive option, but this is my way of thinking, let me know if I'm still being bonkers:

No matter what, 5200wh worth of lead acid batteries is too heavy for my boat. It wouldn't matter if I was being paid to install them, it would be impossible. 2600wH of Lithium batteries are 8 times lighter, and based on the price quoted earlier in the thread of £66 for a 1200wh lead acid battery, would be £620 difference. total. What does that £620 buy me? The ability to sail even when I have work to do. Based on a rough estimate, that doubles my sailing time - and yes, I hear the comment about taking work with me will ruin my sailing - I hear that when underway, I will be very busy - take it as red that I am able to manage my work so I'm not going to have to actively engage with it until after I have the boat safe for the night and my son has gone to bed - but that time where I'm not actively engaging with it, it's rendering, and must be on, able to draw full power (400w) and I must be able to check it's progress once a while and click a restart button if it gets itself into a mess. (Also it can't be used for anything else, it can't be used as a chart plotter). So - this is what it comes down too, £620 to double my sailing time. Without paying it, last year I had 10 free weekends. With paying it, I could sail on an estimated 10 more, and possibly the occasional evening too.

It may sound like I've made up my mind, but genuinely I haven't, mostly as a result of all your excellent help, and so I'll be leaving the battery until dead last to do, once every other job is done. When I know how much I have to spend, then I can plan accordingly. Unfortunately, that means setting aside enough money in the budget to also replace every essential electronic aid, because, if the only way to test them is plug them in, then I can't test them until after a battery decision is made and must assume they need replacing.

Would you help me understand why an inflatable kayak which fits into a backpack is more difficult to carry than the child vomit bag currently entirely filling the back seats of my car, surely that is far more difficult to carry? Imagine I get it out, clean it up and it's brilliant. I would still be tempted by something that much smaller and lighter - but I must be missing something!