New tax for foreign yachts based in Greece from 1st January 2014????

[Tony Cross]

Quite why the CA didn't even raise the issue of boats under 12m being inequitably penalized is beyond me. A good reason not to join them!

It's my understanding that they have raised those issues that the public (note, not just members) reported that they were most concerned about. It's worth noting that the CA has been, and still is, acting on behalf of all boat owners in Greek waters and not just their members, they are also doing so publicly so that all can see what the CA is doing. Don't join the CA if you don't think it's for you, but I don't see any other sailing associations doing any more or working any harder on this issue than the CA.

 

[BrianH]

I don't see any other sailing associations doing any more or working any harder on this issue than the CA.

The DSV (Deutschen Segler-Verbandes) are currently very active in the field also. It was they who (twice) took Greece before the EU commission to have costs rescinded for EU registered yachts that were not applied to Greek ones. I understand they are still fighting the DEKPA charges for EU-flagged boats.

http://www.kreuzer-abteilung.org/index.php?limitstart=5

 

[Tony Cross]

The DSV (Deutschen Segler-Verbandes) are currently very active in the field also. It was they who (twice) took Greece before the EU commission to have costs rescinded for EU registered yachts that were not applied to Greek ones. I understand they are still fighting the DEKPA charges for EU-flagged boats.

http://www.kreuzer-abteilung.org/index.php?limitstart=5

Again it's my understanding (because I'm not privy to the details) that the CA is working in concert with other European sailing associations on this issue. I have no idea whether the DSV is one of those involved but the CA is not acting alone on this. I think it clearly sensible for all the European sailing associations to speak with one voice on this.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Quite why the CA didn't even raise the issue of boats under 12m being inequitably penalized is beyond me. A good reason not to join them!

Boats under 12m paying only one third the amount of tax that over 12m all year live-aboards pay is "inequitably penalized" ? Funny world you live in . . . did you mean "over 12m"?

If so, remember the one month option for those over 12m . . . to relieve short term visitors from Turkey and Italy from the yearly rate.

Again it's my understanding (because I'm not privy to the details) that the CA is working in concert with other European sailing associations on this issue.

Swedish, German, French and CA are in regular communication on this matter, and working together.

 

[nimbusgb]

Yes Jim. Your €25 per week against my €130 per week!

 

[grumpygit]

A British company costs 500 pounds yearly. All Britsh flagged boats are owned by such companies.

The joke about "Greeks don't pay their taxes" must end. The majority of Greeks (who are on a payroll) pay their taxes in advance. Freelancers whos' clients are companies pay at the time the invoice is issued. Most companies just avoid taxes the same way as worldwide (expenses etc). Those that don't declare their true income (and thus don't pay the right taxes) are some very small businesses (some restaurants and some shop owners - not all) and many doctors, plumbers etc. But because you usually deal with restaurants, bars, chandlers etc. you think that everything is like that. Well, it isn't.

Maybe some other time I will tell you how much (what percentage) tax I pay (as an analyst-programmer), and you will not believe it!

Am I missing something here or have I got it wrong somewhere along the line.
A Greek has a 30m stink pot on a British flag and registered through a British company and so probably running it as a loss making venture so no taxes are paid. Then along comes the new Greek tax to try and catch him. If we use the equation of €100 per metre less 50% because he's commercial (€3000 -50%=€1500) I'm sure that's going to hurt him . . NOT. And people say we recreational sailors are just collateral damage, I don't think so.

 

[nimbusgb]

Perhaps we should do something about kicking them all off the SSR register!

No companies.
No non UK addresses.

> ducks and runs for cover <

 

[Tranona]

Perhaps we should do something about kicking them all off the SSR register!

No companies.
No non UK addresses.

> ducks and runs for cover <

That is already the case. Company owned boats can only register on Part 1. However for the sort of boats that use this method the costs of maintaining a company are insignificant.

 

[1bobt]

Am I missing something here or have I got it wrong somewhere along the line.
A Greek has a 30m stink pot on a British flag and registered through a British company and so probably running it as a loss making venture so no taxes are paid. Then along comes the new Greek tax to try and catch him. If we use the equation of €100 per metre less 50% because he's commercial (€3000 -50%=€1500) I'm sure that's going to hurt him . . NOT. And people say we recreational sailors are just collateral damage, I don't think so.

If I am correct .in your example he would pay nothing, as he is over 24 metres, so no tax to pay?

People need to remember, they will not TAX the rich of Greece

 

[grumpygit]

If I am correct .in your example he would pay nothing, as he if over 24 metres, so no tax to pay?

People need to remember they will not TAX the rich of Greece

Thanks for putting me right on that Bob and you are no doubt right on both points. If that is the case, the mention of, we are collateral damage, is rubbish. That means a 23 metre quasi commercial stink pot would be paying a damn sight less than a lot of us on this forum. It's all very biased and full of discrimination. It certainly looks very much like we are the cash cows of this tax. I suppose we'll just have to come to terms with it if and when the tax is enforced.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Thanks for putting me right on that Bob and you are no doubt right on both points. If that is the case, the mention of, we are collateral damage, is rubbish. That means a 23 metre quasi commercial stink pot would be paying a damn sight less than a lot of us on this forum. It's all very biased and full of discrimination. It certainly looks very much like we are the cash cows of this tax. I suppose we'll just have to come to terms with it if and when the tax is enforced.

I hadn't realized either that not all boats paid. I suppose as it applies to boats of all nationality it is legal under EU rules - or is it, as it is clearly discriminatory. Perhaps the CA and various european organisation should be looking at the legality of this.

 

[jimbaerselman]

The law, as written, does not exclude boats over 24m.

50% discount applies to boats which are exclusively used for commercial purposes. The definition of these boats in the law is:

Commercial recreational boat: the recreational vessel with capacity up to forty-nine (49) passengers, which has adequate and appropriate accommodation specifically for passengers, and for which to take advantage of, you need to pay a fare.

In private recreational boats (which are all except commercial boats as above . . .) the owner, occupier, user are jointly and severally liable to pay the tax. So that'll get paid without 50% discount on all other recreational boats in Greek waters over 24m. But, as already pointed out, this cost is trivial compared to the cost of running such boats.

I can't see grounds for claiming discrimination here . . .

Fishing vessels are another matter, of course, covered by a separate law, which I haven't studied.

 

[rolfbudd]

Has anyone actually paid the tax yet? We were considering Greece this year and if this is not sorted out....... Just need to know the facts of the actual implementation, I totally disagree with the tax. I have chartered in and around Greece for over 10 years and have always loved it, the people, the area, the country and not to mention the food. Port dues collected on all boats would be far more effective. But hey since when have the Greeks ever taken the sensible route, anything to keep the civil service in business

 

[Jegs]

Just a question: why is this thread entitled '.....tax for foreign yachts...'? Surely the tax is the same for Greek owned yachts?


John G

 

[nimbusgb]

Has anyone actually paid the tax yet? We were considering Greece this year and if this is not sorted out....... Just need to know the facts of the actual implementation, I totally disagree with the tax. I have chartered in and around Greece for over 10 years and have always loved it, the people, the area, the country and not to mention the food. Port dues collected on all boats would be far more effective. But hey since when have the Greeks ever taken the sensible route, anything to keep the civil service in business

Nope. Not in part to blame because the port police haven't bothered to open up the offices yet! No doubt it'll be Monday before anyone is concerned with the business of running the country!

I hear what you are saying about port dues but frankly I'd prefer a monthly 'cruising charge' and do away with the silly faff with port police and tax offices etc. When on a short holiday who wants to spend part of each day in a new port chasing pp and paperwork? But then as you say, when ever did any Mediterranean country do things 'sensibly'?

 

[BurnitBlue]

I can't see grounds for claiming discrimination here . . .

Fishing vessels are another matter, of course, covered by a separate law, which I haven't studied.

Watch for the sudden rise in the number of fishing boats.

One of the Greek yard staff told me that all it takes is a window box on a balcony to qualify a Greek as a farmer to get the perks.

 

[vyv_cox]

One of the Greek yard staff told me that all it takes is a window box on a balcony to qualify a Greek as a farmer to get the perks.

Or leave some rebar and pillars poking out of the top floor of your house. That shows it not to be finished, so the tax payable on completion is not yet due.

 

[Bertramdriver]

Or leave some rebar and pillars poking out of the top floor of your house. That shows it not to be finished, so the tax payable on completion is not yet due.

Would that work with my boat? It's not finished yet but I could find the time to fit some rebar on the canopy.

 

[nimbusgb]

Or leave some rebar and pillars poking out of the top floor of your house. That shows it not to be finished, so the tax payable on completion is not yet due.

I believe that loophole was recently closed. The same in Spain.

 

[Cardo]

I believe that loophole was recently closed. The same in Spain.

It certainly has. I believe they won't hook up the utilities until the tax bill is paid off.