New or Used - Confused

[jonlaw]

I,m buying a boat for next season, cruising yacht, second hand around 45 - 50K. Last week I viewed a Beneteau 321, 1995, 48K, nice boat fair condition.
I just received the jeanneau price list and was surprised to see a Sun Odyssey 32 package for 52.5K, including ST60 speed, deapth, log, wind, chartmaster 7cvx gps plotter, fenders, warps, anchor, sprayhood, vhf, shore power, battery charger, extra battery, cd player, 12v fridge, cockpit shower, delivery, antifoul and commission. I could stretch to that for a nice shiney new boat and then spend a few years adding to it.
Please, please can anyone tell me why vendors expect so much for used boats of this size in the 3 - 10 year old range.
Also has anyone got opinions on the Legend 326 and its lack of an 'A' RCD.
I will be sailing in the NW Ireland regions.
It does not seem to add up.
The boat I viewed was up for sale by Ancasta, their cut is 8% + vat, nearer 10% !!
Is this why ?
The person selling for 48K will end up getting around 43K minsus any other storage, lifting etc charges.
Which seems more realistic.

 

[halcyon]

One thought is exchange rate, what was the Franc, and now the Euro over the last 7 years. May be the 95 boat is based on the price paid in 95, while the new boat may be similar price in France, but reduced by echange rate into the UK to-day. Alternativly the build quality to-day is much worse.
Legand rating was covered in recent YM ? last 3/5 months.

If your happy with the new one go for it, if the spec of the old one and the new one are the same, at some point the old ones must fall in line with the new value and you could be the one to catch a cold.

Brian

 

[extravert]

There has been much discussion of second hand prices before, and I think your findings are generally agreed on by many people, i.e. the prices asked for recent second hand boats are unrealistic. I suspect these are the reasons why the prices asked are so high...

- In the last 5 years the pound has hardened (remember the big drop in the Euro when it started). This has caused the price of new and second hand boats to drop.

- Volume manufacturers are reducing their new prices in real terms as they capture an increasing share of the market, economies of scale helping here.

I guess these two together may make people think 'I bought this for £60k 5 years ago, I've looked after it and added to it, so I'll take off a bit and ask £50k for it now'. What they haven't done is look at what an equivalent new boat costs now.

Why not offer what you think is realistic? If noone will budge, then buy new. That list of included items is good. On a second hand boat, even if it is well equipped, many things will still go wrong and need replacing sooner than on a new boat, and other items that don't go wrong like sails and upholstery will still be part worn.

Legends are not designed for extended passages in open water, by their own admission. Even if you are not intending to do this type of sailing I think you need a more seaworthy boat for the Atlantic or Northern coast of Ireland.

 

[nicho]

As I understand it, as sales of the BenJenBav mass production boats continue to increase, their prices have come down. This has a marked effect on the values of boats 5/10 years old, (which pro rata would cost a lot more today). The high prices of these used examples probably reflects the perceived value to the owners based on what he actually paid for it. I was faced with the same choice - a used one, or take advantage of the special Boat Show offers. I too was tempted by the SO 32 , the Gib'sea 33 and the Legend 326. Actually in the end chose the Bavaria 32 (to hoots of derision from some quarters of this forum who dislike all modern, cheap plastic boats). It did not stop there though, for having seen the Bav 36 at the Show, we finally signed a contract for one of those instead To be honest, £70K for a fully loaded (and I mean fully!) 37 footer is not a bad deal, and anyway we would rather have new any day.

I was advised by some really experienced testers of new boats that the rig on the Legend 326 is fine for most users. Evidently, if you are really pushing it to the limits hard in to the wind, you may have to compromise a bit. My wife just didn't like the interior so it came off the list!

PS might be worth looking at the Hanse range for value for money.

 

[FlyingSpud]

The point is that the second hand boat will not actually sell for £48,000.00. It’s a bit of a game really. Almost all second hand boats sell for 15/20% less than they are marketed for, so expect to pay about £40,000.00.
But remember the cost of a boat, as with a car, is what you spend on it less what you sell it for. Boats, like cars, suffer their greatest depreciation the moment you take delivery, and once you have it, well, its second hand isn’t it? How much have the current owners of the 95 boat lost in the last 6 years, how much would they have lost if they had bought an 8 year old boat back in 95 that was now a 14 year old boat?

 

[SloopJohnB]

I know its been said before (ad nauseam) but you get what you pay for.
IMHO far better to spend your £50k on a second hand good quality yacht than a new Bav which will, IMHO show what they are really worth in a few years time. The bubble will burst but a good well found boat will continue to be a good boat. That is why they continue to sell. You might not get the same glut of folk chasing your boat as seem to want the new Bavs, but you will still get a steady stream of people who know what they want (provided price is realistic).
In some ways, the more Bavs the better. Bound to make mine more unique and desireable.
That said, I see nothing wrong with a cheap 2nd hand Bav as a first boat.
All IMHO of course.

 

[david_e]

1 against the ben 321 the new SO 32 looks a much better proposition, and you can afford it, and are not tied to one particular boat.
2 A used boat is worth what someone will sell it for and what someone will pay for it. The more motivated side of the pair reflects which way the deal goes. (and that can be many different ways)
3 Brokers simple sell it for them, whether 8% is alot is relative to many other factors. It could be that the vendor is buying a new boat, in which case the brokerage is often free, that leaves more scope for negotiation and a bigger reduction.
4 Can't comment on the Legend.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Hanse quality

>PS might be worth looking at the Hanse range for value for money<

I was suprised at SBS to see how poorly finished the bit that was nearest to the punters was on all the Hanse boats. The transom/hull joint has the transom overlapping the hull, so that there is a lip. This lip had been filled with mastic in a way which would have shamed a lad on the first day of a plumbing course, let alone a boatbuilding one.

So what's the quality of work you can't see like?

 

[nicho]

Re: Hanse quality

Didn't look that closly Ken, but most of the owners seem to like them according to the mags. Not for me however (as you know!)

 

[Toutvabien]

But if we, who do the buying and selling, know that it is a game why do we all continue to play it?

I am equally confused about wheter to buy new or second hand. My inclination however is to wait a bit longer and put in offers on a take it or leave it basis on a good second hand boat, see how the market is running.

There do seem to be quite a lot unsold boats in the £40-50K bracket which my perusal of past brokerage ads suggests have been around for some time. I guess it depends on why somebody is selling a boat as to how negotiable they will be.

 

[tyger]

Re: Because \"Everything is Negotiable!\"

<<But if we, who do the buying and selling, know that it is a game why do we all continue to play it?>>
The intro to Gavin Kennedy's book uses the sale of a second hand yacht to illustrate his thesis that neither buyer nor seller are happy unless the buyer tries to negotiate the price down.

 

[FlyingSpud]

Because the vendor, and broker (who get a percentage) always remember that there is one born every day.