New or Second User

[ParaHandy]

Check depreciation

as you will find that Bavarias tend to depreciate rather faster than either Victoria or Vancouver. By 2005 you will have rather more of the £50,000 you've spent (?) left.

Do a search for a web site of a Vancouver called Rusalka Mist. They went all over the world (in a 28 I think) and their experience might be useful to you.

 

[jsl]

I wonder if your budget would stretch to a Nic 35: long fin, decent pace, good pedigree.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Inventory list

If you find an older boat that appeals, look at the inventory, then cost out everything on it, divide that amount by half to allow for wear and tear, add back in 25% for the cost of installation, then add that lot to the cost of your choice of new boat to get a better like-for-like comparison.

You'll usually find the inventory is worth several thousand - maybe more if you get stuff like radar, chartplotter, a good outboard, SSB, solar panels, full suite of sailing instruments, fridge, decent coloured sails, etc.

 

[AndrewB]

Arrrggghhhh! Call me out-of-touch but ...

... do you really believe that "conversion to serious ocean cruiser" means "power generation, extra tankage, bimini, communications etc etc", not to mention "better galley, more comfort and more carrying capacity".

If ocean cruising means being shipped from one cruising location to another, I'd agree. People will tell you that ocean cruising is 80% in destinations and only 20% at sea so you should prioritise the former. Believe me, one decent F9 gale, and you'll happily, happily trade all the boat goodies in the world for a reinforced bulkheads, bomb-proof windows and hatches, a solid rudder and mast/rigging that will survive partial inversion ... not to mention a yacht that WILL right itself, no questions asked.

And sooner or later, you will get this sort of stuff. On our last Atlantic crossing, we had 4 days with F8+ winds including one at F10.

Sorry for the flame, but "Heavy Weather Sailing" is better reading than the Boat Show catalogue.

 

[Guest]

come on....

What about the fastnet disaster? The analysis of that disaster were that the light weight boats sustained less causualties than the heavy displacement because they could ride the waves. And the very good article about mini cruisers back a couple of months in Y.M. It may feel uncomfortable in lightweights...yes it does, but with the right tactics AND equipment the arguements can go on! (although, yes, I might just prefer a victoria over a jeanneau when my gin starts to spill a little!

 

[Guest]

But how did the crew handle it. Was the boat in any way difficult to control? What were the seas like and was slamming a problem? It always seems necessary to reduce sail early on these - by the time the wind reaches F8 do you need any!!!

 

[Guest]

Re: Carrying Capacity

Is it true to say that the carrying capacity of the boat is directly related to its diplacement. Hence to carry all the stores etc for say five weeks the performance of the Bav34 would be much more affected than that of the Victoria/Vancouver and indeed result in the need for a larger Bavaria. The Bav 37 has less displacement than the Vic34.

 

[Guest]

Re: Inventory list

Whilst I would not propose a sextant as my only form of navigation is it not better to keep it simple - eg no chartplotters, heating and radar but perhaps GPS, Yeoman plotter and an extra sweater?

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Sorry Men I have a Jeanneau Sun magic and I have read the posts with interest but i have been out in many a f8 -f9 in the Aegean Very short waves and not a lot of problem Don`t see what any other sea will do ? Great Boat Would not change It Bobt

Bob T

 

[Guest]

Re: Owners Clubs

In a similar vein it would be useful if the models had owners clubs. I found quite useful information on the Jeanneau and Vancouver this way. Are there owners clubs for the Bavaria and Victoria?

 

[AndrewB]

Err ... which Fastnet Disaster had you in mind?

Just flipping through the 1979 Fastnet Inquiry report, recommendations relating to seaworthiness ... "range of positive stability"; "inversion following capsize"; "dangers of abandoning to liferaft"; "adequate attachment points"; "tethered washboards"; "adequate cockpit drains"; "high-tech rudder breakages"; "dangerous flooding through submerged openings".

Nope, can't see anything on the desirability of light-weight boats (nor on biminis, power generators, communications etc etc).

In "Heavy Weather Sailing" though there is a report from the J30 'Juggernaut' which was obliged to run off on a hairy broad-reach because the skipper found that such a light weight boat would not lie hove-to or a-hull properly. A strategy open to an extremely strong and skillled racing crew. Peter Bruce comments that it was lucky than an inhospitable lee shore was not added to the list of problems.

 

[Guest]

Forbes/Laing/Myatt said nothing like that at all.

Annex 3a compares compares a CO32 to a 1976 Half Tonner and is probably based on Table 1.2 Classes IV & V on page 7 where none of the lightweight boats finished. There were 116 starters in those Classes. Only 7 finished. The report states that the !/2 tonner was representative of the failures and that 'Assent' (CO32) was the only boat to finish in Class V.

So much for lightweight boats - They are still being made and sold by the score to happy W/E punters who buy and pose Breton Captain's caps, salopettes and wellies to the pub!

 

[tony_brighton]

Asbolutely agree - hence my earlier post about going bigger.

But plenty of much smaller boats have done the crossing very successfully. I'm not exactly thinking that the Bav34 is too small after reading the recent article about bath tubs and pedellos crossing! Yes its a light boat - no its not exactly in the cruiser racer class that you see doing the crossing with no comfort, facilities etc.

Perhaps some of the earlier posters would really prefer one of those massively overengineered 1970's ferro jobs? - you know the sort of thing - sits 6" lower than the design intended because of adding extra thickness in the hull etc. Cant get insurance for them. But plenty of stability and carrying capacity.

 

[tony_brighton]

2 slabs in the main and rolled up half a jib. Crew was the other skipper, me and two novice crew thrashing to windward down the Western Solent in the famed chop. Boat handled it fine; bit of a tendency to round up in the strong gusts but de-powering the main helped. And I still had another reef point to go.

Occasional slamming in the chop but on the whole it was manageable with suitable helming. Made good progress at 4.5-5kts.

 

[tony_brighton]

Re: Arrrggghhhh! Call me out-of-touch but ...

Sorry but that sounds like crap.

Serious ocean cruising? Keep in mind the context was an Atlantic cct and how many smaller boats have done it.

See my other posting re: 1970's ferro boats that no one would touch with a barge pole - they seem to meet your criteria.

mini re-flame!

 

[tony_brighton]

Re: Arrrggghhhh! Call me out-of-touch but ...

and I've read Heavy Weather Sailing