New or Second User

[Guest]

I am currently looking for a 34 foot boat to sail cross channel etc but with a view to doing the ARC in 2005. For my money I could buy a Bavaria 34, Jeanneau 34.2 or a fifteen year old Victoria 34 or Vancouver 32. The former two are allegedly Category A but are they suitable for a shorthanded ARC? I feel the Victoria/Vancouver is more robust and suited for distant cruising but does it really justify the cost bearing in mind that many of the goodies on the boat will be due for replacement or will be fairly obsolete? What advice on the above choices please? Does the Category A actually mean suitable for Ocean sailing as a look at the recent boat show seemed to idicate to me suitable for crossing the channel on a calm day!?

 

[Guest]

You have to ask what risks you are prepared to take, do you want speed and volume or sea performance and take the restrictions? Eg I decided I was not prepared to put up with a spade rudder on a cruising boat because of the risk in grounding/collision. Once I had a list of risks/benafits of all the basic design features available in a small yatch I knew what she would look like. In my case a 70's cruiser racer with long keel and transom hung rudder plus built like a tank. Everyone solution is different. I found sketching the boat I would design if I could afford a custom one was a good way of getting to a decsion and fun on a winters evening!

Roly, Voya Con Dios, Glasson, Lancaster

 

[rogerroger]

This is a little like saying you want a good cheap reliable car for going shopping or a Jag for driving up to Scotland in.

Don't know about the Victoria - but the Vancouver is probably as different a boat as could possibly be to the Jen / Bav.

I wouldn't touch the Jeanneau with a barge pole, at least not the 34.2 (the 36.2 is a great deal better). We chartered one for 9 days and even in good wind never got more than 4 knots out of it. It's a cheap, lightweight boat mainly designed for the Med. It annoyed me being on board for a few hours, let alone 3 weeks.

Bav 34 is excellent value all-rounder but is still a fairly lightweight boat.

The Vancouver on the other hand is built for long distance cruising - she's heavy displacement, cutter rigged and has a long keel so is a completely different beast altogether. Having sailed a friend's Vancouver 28 and also crossed the pond in a Beneteau 40 I wouldn't hesitate to do the ARC in the Vancouver 32.

As I said, I know nothing of the Victoria but personally I'd NEVER cross the pond (or any pond) in the Jeanneau 34.2 and would think twice about the Bavaria also.

Roger Holden
www.first-magnitude.co.uk

 

[Adrian_Morgan]

Simply no contest. Victoria 34 or Vancouver. But have it properly surveyed (especially condition of sails as a new suit will be very costly); engine and structure. Both are proper long distance yachts, hence sought after and keep their value. Read YM second opinions on both and ask owners about problems and performance.

 

[Guest]

The Jeanneau is really to light for the job, you dont want to be edgy the whole crossing and the ride is less than smooth in anything above F4. Too much really for 3 weeks (although I have taken a Jeanneau 29.2 down to the Med!) Same as before... for the money the 36 is a much more able boat. The Bavaria is a bit better and definitely worth a look. The other two....well they are a completely different boat, something like the Vancouver could sail the world, but the space and speed are limiting (old sea dogs will blast me off the plank!) The bigger the better but if you are young, fit and able, go for the lighter option, otherwise be conservative in your tastes.

 

[bedouin]

The Victoria and Vancouver are both well know "premium" models; they are both good boats but I would guess command high prices because of that. You can almost certainly get something every bit as good for considerably less money.

If you buy second-hand you will have to budget additional money to upgrade some of the equipment - especially if you want to cross the Atlantic. A figure of 33% of the purchase price is not unreasonable. On the other hand, you will get a better equipped boat buying second hand, and there would be considerable expense in upgrading a production-line BenJenBav to a standard where you would be happy crossing oceans in it.

In spite of what people may say on this forum, boats like the Bavaria are safe-enough for the Arc, and because of their relatively light weight and broad beam they would probably by faster on the trade-wind route than a heavier displacement boat.

It's your call and no one can make it for you. If I were in your position I would go for an older (1970s) heavy displacement long-keeled (or at least longish fin) boat.

 

[Guest]

When I do this I always seem to end up with a more traditional concept such as the Vancouver due to the ease of handling and motion. Then I remember handling in marinas, speed and the like, and wonder where the compromise is.

 

[Guest]

But is it necessary to buy a landrover to cope with the rough stuff?

I tend to agree with your comments on the Jeanneau and felt it was not built to the same standard as the Bav. Curiously the Jeanneau people did not agree.

I have only sailed the Bav in a force three and wonder whether it would be too lively for a shorthanded crew in more breezy weather and on choppier water.

 

[Guest]

I rather got the impression at the show that if I wanted the sea keeping qualities of the Vancouver I would need a larger Bavaria than the 34 - probably the 40. That is outside my budget and I certainly do not need the additional space. Is this a reasonable assessment?

 

[Guest]

Plan for the worst.....

is the brief that planemakers and bridge builders get.

Should it be different for us romantic boat owners who want to gracefully swoop form tack to tack in our white winged water chariots dancing with dolphins ?

We should probably tell some hard nosed old salt the type of sailing we intend to do and let him choose it for us.

 

[Twister_Ken]

I'm beginning to address the same sort of question, except that it's not between new and used, but more how old. I've bareboated Jeanneaux, and didn't like it. I've sailed Vancouvers (34, but it's essentially the same boat), and felt happy. Compared to a more recent design its a bit sticky in light airs, but I'd bet with a trade wind up the chuff it would be quite capable of racking up 150+ miles a day, with fewer heart-in-mouth moments than a lighter boat. Then you take a look at the way the Vancouver's rig is stayed, and your confidence notches up another level.

But for the same sort of money I could look at a Westerly Typhoon, which at 37 feet is a lot bigger internally, spritlier, and appears to be pretty solid. My task next year is to get myself aboard a Typhoon on a windy day! And have a good crawl around a couple of brokerage ones. If only the price of Rustler 36s would drop a bit!

 

[ParaHandy]

I may be wrong but I don't think any Bavaria has done an ARC. Check entry stats at www.worldcruising.com.

Victoria 34 has fin & skeg - might be a touch more manoeuverable than the Vancouver's full keel. Some sail training orgs sailed the Victoria 34. I liked the Victoria - lovely bowsprit but that's where extra 2' comes from methinks.

 

[zefender]

Re: ARC Correction!

The 2001 entry list shows about half a dozen bavarias did the ARC last year. Most (in keeping with the vast majority of other makes on the run) were over 40' but I notice that a Bav 350 and Bav 37 started (and I assume finished!).

Although I own a Bavaria, I also love the Victoria and the Vancouver. But they are relative heavyweights and appear comparatively tiny down below due to their narrower beam. They are very well finished and everything seems to ooze strength. They won't love low speed maneouvres in marinas and won't sail as fast (in most conditions) but their motion in a seaway will be much more gentle. IMHO the lighter boats will spin on a sixpence and give a more spritely performance, but will be less forgiving and be more demanding on the crew.

The point made by an earlier poster about the need (and cost) of updating an older boat shouldn't be lost though. If you can do most of the work yourself, this might make it less painful. I would suggest also considering the kind of crew you intend for longer trips. If pushed for a choice, I'd go for the Bav for general sailing and maybe one or two ocean jobs but Vic or the Van if that was where most of my sailing was going to be. However, the 34 is a bit light for the job, I'd have thought. How about a compromise and buy a 'nearly new' Bav 37?

 

[Guest]

A number of years ago I was lucky enough to berth next to a Vancouver 32 Ocean Pilgrim. At the time she was owned by a chap who had single handed her across to the WI's and back. He felt it was a boat that would keep going regardless with a degree of comfort. I think if I had the time & money I would look at the Vancouvers especially the 38.

Pete

 

[tony_brighton]

So far the strongest we've had our Bav34 out in is F7 - which she handled no problem.

 

[tony_brighton]

ps. best boat speed so far = 8.3kts.

 

[tony_brighton]

We're considering a similar voyage at around the same time. We've currently got a Bav34; I think we'll change up a size before attempting it. Its not a question of doubting the boat (although big is better if you are going to be on it for a year), more a case of wanting a better galley, more comfort and more carrying capacity. If circumstances changed and we couldn't upgarde then i'd consider doing it in ours - but would have to budget a considerable sum for conversion to serious ocean cruiser (power generation, extra tankage, bimini, communications etc etc).

 

[rogerroger]

Indeed - I did my yachtmaster on a Bav 34 and in high F6 with 2 reefs and storm jim she handled as well as under less breezy conditions.

Thing is, would you want to endure days of this? A heavy displacement boat would still be more comfortable I'm sure in prolonged heavy conditions.

Roger Holden
www.first-magnitude.co.uk

 

[tony_brighton]

Re: ARC Correction!

Yep - the Bav 350 did a credible time. But being the older design of Bav they are heavier and more sturdy, with lots of extra stowage.

No Bav 34 has as yet done the ARC - but doesn't mean they haven't crossed. Given the average boat size for the Arc is now 44' it would look like a minnow!

 

[Guest]

You should consider boats outside the regular rigs. An ideal boat for your requirements "channel cruising plus Arc" is a Freedom 35. Strongly built, freestanding rig. carbon fibre spars.lovely dry sea boat with an easy motion. A freedom 35 won one of the early Arc's overall. I have just returned from the Med after 5 years cruising and can say that the room offered in this design is good for onboard living. I have previously owned other boats including Contessa 32. Freedoms are fast and easily handled and easy to self maintain. All the "rig" is rope so no wire problems. I happen to have one for sale. Contact; mikeandgill@aol.com