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norrisg

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I've been scratching around looking for the big leisure time option (having seen off caravans, motorhomes). I cannot retire to Spain just yet (!) so I'm looking for a UK based option, and each year I find myself getting pulled more towards the water. I've done a little research but would really value the opinion of members.

I have a friend with narrowboats which we've enjoyed with them - but its not for us, we need the sea. We're think of a motor boat, large enough to weekend/week on in a marina (probably Anglesey) where we go and stay - with or without going out to sea. I'm a novice and am happy to build skills in fair weather over time. Ultimately, I'd like to take the boat to the Isle of Man for holidays (TT etc) and potter around North Wales, lunch in a bay, kayak off the back - usual stuff. Not interested in speed just good progression in a manageable boat, in good weather.

Here's the checklist:
I can spend about 25K
I'd like an economical boat
good living accommodation is very important
I will take all the courses - close to booking now, at a school in Angelsey (may as well learn where I want to sail, right?)

Here's my questions:
What size boat will I need, can you suggest some models, what age? (Sundancer 260, too small?)
Will I find a mooring, are they generally available, where - what sort of costs?
what would normal/regular annual maintenance costs be
could we effectively holiday home on it?
how doable is the future IOM trip, how much experience would/should I need?

I would welcome any advise that people can offer!
Thanks in advance
 
norrisg said:
Here's the checklist:
I can spend about 25K
I'd like an economical boat
good living accommodation is very important
I will take all the courses - close to booking now, at a school in Angelsey (may as well learn where I want to sail, right?)

Here's my questions:
What size boat will I need, can you suggest some models, what age? (Sundancer 260, too small?)
Will I find a mooring, are they generally available, where - what sort of costs?
what would normal/regular annual maintenance costs be
could we effectively holiday home on it?
how doable is the future IOM trip, how much experience would/should I need?
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum... - as a brief answer - If you're looking for good on board accommodation you'll probably want a minimum of 30ft.
Moorings - how long is a piece of string? Best bet is to make an enquiry at harbours you might like to operate from - probably best to make a personal visit - if it's anything like up here in the highlands, you'll find there is a big waiting list.
Maintenance costs - depends on the boat, age; engines - too many variables to offer a figure.
If you decide to buy a boat.. make sure your 1st boat is one that's easy to sell.
 
I think the first thing to address is the "economical boat" requirement.

Of course it is all subjective but the words economical and boats rarely appear together. If you mean fuel consumption you may find the running costs a bit of a shock. Even my little sports cuddy only manages 5 gallons per hour which is about 5 mpg equivalent if I am behaving myself and considerably less if I'm having fun.

Bigger boats seem to talk about 1ltr of fuel per mile per engine or thereabouts.

All boats in that price bracket will be a compromise of performance against accommodation. As Rob has said if you was good crew space you want to look at 27ft - 30ft minimum.

A Marina mooring at that size, could be £4-5K p.a. depending on where you look, Annual maintenance is similar to a car £350 per engine.

At that size you could go anywhere depending on weather, crew, confidence.

I would suggest aim a bit smaller with some modest ambitions and see if you and your crew enjoy it. Something like a Sealine or similar around 24ft. Go for diesel for the economy. Also boats like that sell quite easily so if you want to bail out. or upgrade, you have options.
 
To add to the above, maintenance costs are hugely dependent on whether you do it yourself.

If you're handy, can do everything yourself, and buy carefully you can service each engine for around £50-£100 per year.
If you have to pay someone else to do it, the figures mentioned above are more realistic.

Bear in mind that boats take a LOT more maintenance than even oldish cars, and engine maintenance is only the start.
You also have to lift the boat out of the water annually (get a quote from the marina / harbours you're checking out, but for a 30ft boat it'll be around £175) and clean it down, antifoul (Around £200 DIY) and lift back in (same charge again). Every other year or so you'll need new anodes, allow £100 ish.

On top of the financial cost is the time they take up. Constant cleaning, annual polishing of the hull (much more work than on a car), and a multitude of ancilliaries to keep on top of that take both time and cash. Water leaks from windows, pumps that don't work, faulty electrickery, new batteries every few years, canopy cleaning with replacement every 10 years on average, the list is endless.

If you're into all that and are active and handy you'll love it, but be prepared if you're not.
It's not all G&T's on the sun deck - there's a lot of hard work to get there (which makes the G&T taste all the better) especially with a fairly old boat which your budgetary limitations dictate. Be sure you're going in with your eyes open - but welcome to the boating scene!
 
I'm local to your intended areas. Give us a pm when next you are down and I will be happy to give you some local pointers to ease you in to the scene so you can make a substantiated evaluation on going forward.
 
ye i am also based in conwy inthe marina in which we use the boat as a holiday base all year ,not many marinas about ,conwy ,deganwy holyhead waiting lists for others maybe space in port dinorwic . As for boat training there is seawake power boat training highly recomended on ere pm kawasaki . on here he knows anglesey better than the welch
 
seastoke said:
ye i am also based in conwy inthe marina in which we use the boat as a holiday base all year ,not many marinas about ,conwy ,deganwy holyhead waiting lists for others maybe space in port dinorwic . As for boat training there is seawake power boat training highly recomended on ere pm kawasaki . on here he knows anglesey better than the welch
Click to expand...


Yep. Kwakers knows every rock. Left his teeth in a few too. A good place to start. You get bonus points if you ever manage to pilfer Seastoke's liquor box. I'm pretty sure he's a Yorkshire expat because he'll have you believe he runs a dry ship.
 
jokerboat said:
I think the first thing to address is the "economical boat" requirement...
...Annual maintenance is similar to a car £350 per engine. .
Click to expand...

Trundlebug said:
To add to the above, maintenance costs are hugely dependent on whether you do it yourself....
....the list is endless.!
Click to expand...

And bear in mind that both these posters are not being 'negative'; just realistic. :-)

My experience - it's a love/hate relationship. It can be expensive & miserable but if you get the bug it can be the best times you'll have.
 
To clarify jokerboat's commnet on larger boats fuel consumption being around 1 litre per mile per engine it is more like 1 mile per gallon on a larger planing boat at planing speeds. 1 litre per mile per engine may be achievable at displacement speeds or on a smaller planing boat . A sportscruiser on outdrives will be doing well to get 2 mpg at planing speeds. Our Fairline Targa 35 did around 1.7mpg on average but this inevitably included some lower speed running so I reckoned that around 1.4 to 1.5 mpg was about right when on the plane.
 
On a 34 LWL footer with twin kamd42's I averaged 2.7 liter per mile based on distance covered and amount of fuel put in this season. This covers average consumption with a reasonable split between cruising and hull speeds I'd think (70% cruising 30% hull speed). I am led to believe at cruising revs I could expect 10 gallons per hour with my setup which based on actual readings seems about right.
 
Thanks for the replies which I appreciate. Labour of love springs to mind - similar to when I had a motorhome, bought in new and somehow I was always grateful when it all worked and spent most of my time on niggles! Sea is a whole lot scarier of course!! I'll take the advice on the courses at Seawake and get them booked, I've also had some Pm's which were useful.

I think my angle would be to really take my time, use it as a holiday home and build up gradually - follow a few people out and get to know it slowly. End of the day marina's are in good locations and its still weekend away even if it doesn't move! Thanks again.
 
norrisg said:
Thanks for the replies which I appreciate. Labour of love springs to mind - similar to when I had a motorhome, bought in new and somehow I was always grateful when it all worked and spent most of my time on niggles! Sea is a whole lot scarier of course!! I'll take the advice on the courses at Seawake and get them booked, I've also had some Pm's which were useful.

I think my angle would be to really take my time, use it as a holiday home and build up gradually - follow a few people out and get to know it slowly. End of the day marina's are in good locations and its still weekend away even if it doesn't move! Thanks again.
Click to expand...

I believe your inbox is full (may need a few more posts to upgrade limit?) and needs clearing out.
 
norrisg said:
I think my angle would be to really take my time, use it as a holiday home and build up gradually - follow a few people out and get to know it slowly. End of the day marina's are in good locations and its still weekend away even if it doesn't move! Thanks again.
Click to expand...
Good thoughts norrisg:encouragement:
Here are some more
You need a vessel capable of 16 flat out and 12 knts cruising
Why?
Because of where you want to be based
Up to 10 kts of tide in parts of the Strait and lots to cope with in Conwy and other spots about The Parrish
If you have a displacement vessel it seriously damages your flexibility
Not a fan of outdrive
Shaft or shafts are good
Don't rule out outboards, however if you want something 30 foot ish you may struggle
Sports boats can be a nuisance to moor up
Especially the types that you have to step through the windscreen on to a sloping foredeck with minimum grab rails
and no sided decks to go forward on.
My old Nimbus 27 is in Conwy take a look at that style
Inboard diesel, shaft drive, could punch any tide around. Would cruise at 12 kts at 2 gallons an hour
6 berth (clever layout) easy to move around on. Easy to moor up
Not averse to petrol in the right boat'Cheap to Run' does not work with boats!
It isn't the fuel that's the thing its all the other stuff as mentioned
According to someone or some survey recently
The Average hours a UK Moboer does is 50!!
Anyway- just some thoughts to get you thinking, while I was thinking about it!!!:D
 
Kawasaki said:
Good thoughts norrisg:encouragement:
Here are some more
You need a vessel capable of 16 flat out and 12 knts cruising
Why?
Because of where you want to be based
Up to 10 kts of tide in parts of the Strait and lots to cope with in Conwy and other spots about The Parrish
If you have a displacement vessel it seriously damages your flexibility
Not a fan of outdrive
Shaft or shafts are good
Don't rule out outboards, however if you want something 30 foot ish you may struggle
Sports boats can be a nuisance to moor up
Especially the types that you have to step through the windscreen on to a sloping foredeck with minimum grab rails
and no sided decks to go forward on.
My old Nimbus 27 is in Conwy take a look at that style
Inboard diesel, shaft drive, could punch any tide around. Would cruise at 12 kts at 2 gallons an hour
6 berth (clever layout) easy to move around on. Easy to moor up
Not averse to petrol in the right boat'Cheap to Run' does not work with boats!
It isn't the fuel that's the thing its all the other stuff as mentioned
According to someone or some survey recently
The Average hours a UK Moboer does is 50!!
Anyway- just some thoughts to get you thinking, while I was thinking about it!!!:D
Click to expand...

your old boat has been sold and moved to a river like all you old captains ,ps how is swimbo
 
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