New liveabord need some help

TQA said:
Hi
The reason I drew your attention to that steel boat was

1 it is steel if you hit a whale/container/reef/ other boat it gives you the best chance of survival.
2 it has the wheel on the bulkhead [good for cruising] and not in the middle of the cockpit.
3 built in rear gangplank essential for med style stern to mooring.
4 SERIOUS davits
5 inside wheel station.
None of the above apply to a typical ex charter boat. That boat was set up as a cruising boat.

Yes steel can be a pain to maintain but if a panel rusts through it usually does so slowly and you get time to buy another pump while arranging to have a new panel welded in WHICH IS AS STRONG AS THE ORIGINAL WAS.

I suppose the Passage is a rare bird in Europe. quite a few in your price range on my side of the pond though.
Click to expand...

If you have experience of Med cruising, this type of boat would not be high on your list - even though it may have qualities that make it desirable elsewhere! Boats from the "other side" are generally not attractive to European buyers for use in Europe, primarily because it is not legal to use them (even if you could get them here economically) without meeting the requirements for a CE mark. For most US (and many other non EU/EEA) boats this either technically or economically difficult if not impossible - unless the user is a non resident visitor. Even then there are significant restrictions on usage.
 
Rolfbudd, you should consider any Amel.

They are designed from the onset as cruising/liveaboards vessels. No osmosis either as. They are not GRP.

Good luck with your search
 
Monique said:
Rolfbudd, you should consider any Amel.

They are designed from the onset as cruising/liveaboards vessels. No osmosis either as. They are not GRP.

Good luck with your search
Click to expand...

Monique, dont know which Amels you have seen but all the Amels I have seen are GRP, and excellent boats but not suitable for short handed Med sailing - more Ocean wanderers. That said there are plenty of them in the Med but compared to BEN/JEN/Bav they are a bit cumbersome - and all even the old ones are way out the OP price range.

With his budget I would be looking at an excharter Jeanneau 37 or something like it - easy to live on and easy to maintain and as tough as old boots.
 
TQA said:
Hi
The reason I drew your attention to that steel boat was

1 it is steel if you hit a whale/container/reef/ other boat it gives you the best chance of survival.
2 it has the wheel on the bulkhead [good for cruising] and not in the middle of the cockpit.
3 built in rear gangplank essential for med style stern to mooring.
4 SERIOUS davits
5 inside wheel station.
None of the above apply to a typical ex charter boat. That boat was set up as a cruising boat.

Yes steel can be a pain to maintain but if a panel rusts through it usually does so slowly and you get time to buy another pump while arranging to have a new panel welded in WHICH IS AS STRONG AS THE ORIGINAL WAS.

I suppose the Passage is a rare bird in Europe. quite a few in your price range on my side of the pond though.
Click to expand...
Hi TQA, nice to hear someone praise steel for a change.
Ours is steel swing keel and love it,but ive always thought for a good all rounder with skeg hung rudder and good glass layup is the moody 39 primrose but bit old now or a bill Dixon, which is centre cockpit and a fab aft bedroom 422 or 425 model,
but im not keen on the xld 1.6 lump they put in it. many have inmast reefing which some like and some don't,

happy hunting
Colin
 
Artic Warrior said:
Hi TQA, nice to hear someone praise steel for a change.
Ours is steel swing keel and love it,but ive always thought for a good all rounder with skeg hung rudder and good glass layup is the moody 39 primrose but bit old now or a bill Dixon, which is centre cockpit and a fab aft bedroom 422 or 425 model,
but im not keen on the xld 1.6 lump they put in it. many have inmast reefing which some like and some don't,

happy hunting
Colin
Click to expand...

I had a 38 ft steel ketch a Ryton 38 as a cruising liveaboard for 7 years. The peace of mind when a whale made repeated passes at us on the transatlantic, stopping suddenly when running downwind in the Caribbean [ tree?? container ?? ] and general reef dodging while looking for out of the way anchorages was reassuring. Not a pretty boat and not fast but seriously tough. I suspect a GR boat would have been damaged that night in the Caribbean.

However I now have a GRP centerboarder with integral ballast which is my forever boat. Less maintenance.
 
Interesting views, we are off to the boat show to have a look around, get a better feel of what we like/dislike. After reading through this we are considering aft cockpit boats again, still not sure about the crawling under the cockpit, but understand we will probably live more in the cockpit than in bed. And stern to mooring is much easier unless we get a remote windless. Lots to think about. Thank you all who have contributed, please keep it coming :-)
 
Marsupial said:
Monique, dont know which Amels you have seen but all the Amels I have seen are GRP, and excellent boats but not suitable for short handed Med sailing - more Ocean wanderers. That said there are plenty of them in the Med but compared to BEN/JEN/Bav they are a bit cumbersome - and all even the old ones are way out the OP price range.

With his budget I would be looking at an excharter Jeanneau 37 or something like it - easy to live on and easy to maintain and as tough as old boots.
Click to expand...

Sorry but all Amels are meant for a couple. Their hulls are not GRP but some other type of plastic based compound. No osmosis on an Amel. I will find a few in his price range! (sorry mate but I've been looking at them for some time)
 
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As much as I like the Amels, I have yet to find one in my price range and I have just looked at their website and they state "Hull made from composite, Roving 71 glass fibre / isophthalic resin, monolithic laminate, laid up by hand (application / coating / air removal) in lengthwise and transverse layers with a two thirds overlap"
Wish I could afford one :-)
I am being made redundant in Nov so will start travelling and making more enquiries and get to actually go and visit some of the boats on the market then. The Moody's are a definite option with 2 42's I have been told of and they may yet be the boat of choice. But I think we will take time and see as much as we can before making a final decision. Once my house is rented we will then move to my partners apartment in Spain (unless we have already got a boat by then) taking a nice long road trip via the French Med coast, down to Barcelona and on to Murcia. From there we can make up our mind as to what we want in a yacht and which one is right for us. Again please keep adding to this thread, I am very interested in your views and ideas.
 
rolfbudd said:
As much as I like the Amels, I have yet to find one in my price range and I have just looked at their website and they state "Hull made from composite, Roving 71 glass fibre / isophthalic resin, monolithic laminate, laid up by hand (application / coating / air removal) in lengthwise and transverse layers with a two thirds overlap"
Wish I could afford one :-)
Click to expand...

Yes that's the stuff, in the UK we call it GRP or tupperware, the French often call it Polyester as far as I know that is the only material Amel have ever used. Nothing very special about it at all (IN fact its the same resin mix including isophalic resin as my Jeanneau except mine has kevlar in it Amel does not, and yes my Jeanneau is a monolithic laminate),- ah but the design - a master piece; three water tight sealed compartments and a machinery room, magnificent.

Moneque

"Sorry but all Amels are meant for a couple. Their hulls are not GRP but some other type of plastic based compound. No osmosis on an Amel. I will find a few in his price range! (sorry mate but I've been looking at them for some time)"

Yes they are made for couples but not for the sort of sailing we get out here (THE MED) they become very difficult for two to handle in close quarters manoeuvring - come on over and watch the "fun". They are as Amel say "blue water cruisers". And I have been a very big fan of the things for at least 25 years almost ordered one in 1999 a Maramu 2000, but I have yet to see one happy in a little bay surrounded by lots of boats - they are made to cross oceans.

Old Amels the 44 may be an option but not a 53 ft Maramu.
 
To our mind, there is no more ideal liveaboard sailing boat for a couple than the Dehler 41DS.

The boat has bright and airy living accomodation, a first class head, tons of storage space, yet has Dehler performance and build quality. With the high aspect self tacking jib configuration, all lines back to the electric winches in the cockpit, she is a cinch to sail single handed. She handles under power like a dream - no vices. She is safe, strong, and the optimum size neither too small and cramped nor vast too handle and expensive to berth.

And there are five available at the moment in the UK, including Fuga! So forget the Amel's, Island Packets, Halbergs, Malo and their over-rated ilk, and of course the AWB's, that goes without saying!
 
I think with £50k to spend, it would be wiser to keep below 12m and go for a bit more quality than size. I also suspect that a boat ideal for the Med is not necessarily so ideal elsewhere in the world. However, whatever you get is going to be a compromise, one that you can accept.
 
Monique said:
Rolfbudd, you should consider any Amel.

They are designed from the onset as cruising/liveaboards vessels. No osmosis either as. They are not GRP.

Good luck with your search
Click to expand...

Amels are GRP. Some are not polyester though but ones at that price will be!

Parents one had to go back to the factory for repairs when it was still nearly new!

At 50k an Amel will be getting on a bit.
 
nimbusgb said:
Amels are GRP. Some are not polyester though . . . .
Click to expand...

please explain as GRP glass reinforced plastic IS polyester - the terms are interchangeable depending upon which side of English Channel you are on.

The Dehler is a nice boat but it does not have a monolithic hull - but a galvanised "chassis", this may be a good or a bad thing depending on where you stand on salt water and galvanised steel and monolithic hulls I would have considered it a AWB; the 41 DS was on my short list in 1999 - then they went bust.

(MOST (not ALL) boats now don't have a monolithic hull Amel is now one of the exceptions in that respect. But way out of the OP price range for a good example).

Didn't buy the Amel in 1999 because of the choice of engines - anything as long as its was Volvo and that stupid Z drive to get the drive down to the centre of the keel - loved the deck layout and the practicality of the interior - oh and the size: at 53ft MCA rules .. . . . . . .
 
syfuga said:
And there are five available at the moment in the UK, including Fuga! So forget the Amel's, Island Packets, Halbergs, Malo and their over-rated ilk, and of course the AWB's, that goes without saying!
Click to expand...
Not a lot of help to the OP who has £50k to spend! Unless you are feeling charitable and will sell it to him for that.
 
Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but don't expect to buy a boat for 50k and see that as being the final expense, as you will invariably end up spending a fair chunk on fixing and improving your newly acquired boat. Whatever your expectations the expense will most definitely exceed them :D But it's worth it!! Do it!!
 
Now that would be very nice :-) I do like the Dehler 41ds and it would make a very nice first yacht :-) I am being quite realistic about this, I know my budget is not going to buy me a nice shiny new live aboard yacht. But there must be something out there (Moody looks good) that will be a good starting point, we can budget to save money and do upgrades as we go along. Where there is a will there is a way. With that in mind what is the general opinion to Bravarias? please be objective, I know they are AWB but people have sailed around the world in AWB's. There are some ex charter 40-44ft ones now coming onto the market, 95-2003, nice comfy cockpit, which from what I gather is where most of my time will be spent :-) My partner is still looking for the big aft cabin but she has opened her eyes to maybe a large owners cabin in the bow, what do you think?
 
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