Saddler 25 help/advice

[Alfie141]

Hello,

This is actually my first post, I'm wondering if somebody can help me.

I apologise in advance if this is not in the correct category.

I own a Saddler 25, with a couple other friends. We have had her for the last 2 seasons, and the summer just gone the engine seized. From all accounts it looks like the head gasket has gone and needs replacing or the entire engine could be blown, we aren't 100% how it happened as the the Nanni 2.40He had given us absolutely zero problems since we purchased her. In fact had been running incredibly in all honesty.

Initially we where looking into a replacement engine as the Head gasket replacement is quite a sum (we bought her for round £3000). If we are spending that sort of money, we could essentially buy a bigger boat or a brand new engine.

The trouble is that we cant really seem to find an engine that seems a good enough price. We have looked into a Yanmar 1gm10 and a Nanni 2.50He.


I suppose what I'm asking is; how easy is an engine swap if we managed to get one?

And would it be a problem if it wasn't the same type engine (Yanmar) or slightly more powerful like the Nanni 2.50he. (+4hp difference)

Do we have even the smallest of opportunity to take the engine apart ourselves and swap the gasket(at least if there not a bigger underlying problem) and would anyone have any sort of reading material or some sort of guide to doing so. I cant seem to find anything on Nanni at all?

For the cost, are we just better off buying a different boat?

And is anyone selling a Nanni 2.40 he??

It goes without saying we absolutely love her and really do not want to give her up, especially if it means she wouldn't sail again.

 

[SaltIre]

Welcome to the forums. I can't advise on the Yanmar or Nanni, but I found access to the Vetus engine in a Sadler 25 I owned really awkward. Have you asked on the Sadler/Starlight forum/facebook group?

I had an 11HP Vetus in a Sadler 25. The engine was fine, but an issue was access to the bits you need access to. Apart from the alternator belt and the raw water strainer not much of it seemed to be on the front, whereas the 35HP BetaMarine engine I had in a Moody336 seemed much easier to manage. Things like the dipstick and impeller were on the Stbd side of the Vetus (click the thumbnails below for a bigger image) and accessed with difficulty via cutouts in longitudinal bulkheads. Clearly the engine compartment was much much smaller in my Sadler25 but access for servicing and everyday use might be worth checking.
View attachment 98158 View attachment 98164View attachment 98166
The engine was installed ~2001 and the larger ones may be different, but the manual for the 11HP engine refers to the Stbd side as the service side and the port side as the Starter side...

Edit: On re-reading #26 I realise TNLI already knows about Vetus engines(!) but I'll leave my post up here for others.
This poster agrees about access...

 

[Tranona]

Hello,

This is actually my first post, I'm wondering if somebody can help me.

I apologise in advance if this is not in the correct category.

I own a Saddler 25, with a couple other friends. We have had her for the last 2 seasons, and the summer just gone the engine seized. From all accounts it looks like the head gasket has gone and needs replacing or the entire engine could be blown, we aren't 100% how it happened as the the Nanni 2.40He had given us absolutely zero problems since we purchased her. In fact had been running incredibly in all honesty.

Initially we where looking into a replacement engine as the Head gasket replacement is quite a sum (we bought her for round £3000). If we are spending that sort of money, we could essentially buy a bigger boat or a brand new engine.

The trouble is that we cant really seem to find an engine that seems a good enough price. We have looked into a Yanmar 1gm10 and a Nanni 2.50He.


I suppose what I'm asking is; how easy is an engine swap if we managed to get one?

And would it be a problem if it wasn't the same type engine (Yanmar) or slightly more powerful like the Nanni 2.50he. (+4hp difference)

Do we have even the smallest of opportunity to take the engine apart ourselves and swap the gasket(at least if there not a bigger underlying problem) and would anyone have any sort of reading material or some sort of guide to doing so. I cant seem to find anything on Nanni at all?

For the cost, are we just better off buying a different boat?

And is anyone selling a Nanni 2.40 he??

It goes without saying we absolutely love her and really do not want to give her up, especially if it means she wouldn't sail again.

Suspect you have a Nanni 2.10 or 2.14 which are 2 cylinder 10 or 14 hp. Same basic engine but the 14 is set to run to 3600 rpm rather than 3000 rpm. Other minor differences in spec such as alternator. Same basic engine as the Beta 10 and 14. In physical size and mountings almost identical to the Yanmar 1GM but vastly superior engines in terms of power and refinement.

If you cannot repair the Nanni (it is a Kubota based engine and you will find spares for the basic engine cheaper from a Kubota agent) then you are more likely to find a used Yanmar, partly because they have been in production for over 40 years virtually unchanged and partly because it is common to replace them with a better engine if funds allow. You rarely see either Beta or Nanni for sale secondhand because they are very long lived.
So if you have to replace th engine you are more likely to find a Yanmar, but it is less powerful, seawater cooled and you may well have to change your propeller depending on which gearbox comes with the Yanmar. You also need to move the exhaust to the other side and increase the diameter of the hose with an adaptor. The engine mount bolts into the beds are slightly different positions but usually not a problem as they are within the same footprint.

Alternatively you can use a 6-8hp long shaft outboard on a bracket. Many early Sadler 25s used outboards because the inboard options at the time were both expensive and rubbish (mostly Petter Mini 6 which being mainly aluminium construction dissolved in front of you!)

Hope this helps

 

[Sailing steve]

Do we have even the smallest of opportunity to take the engine apart ourselves and swap the gasket(at least if there not a bigger underlying problem) and would anyone have any sort of reading material or some sort of guide to doing so. I cant seem to find anything on Nanni at all?

An engine swap to one of a different type is a significant amount of work and if you buy second hand a risk too.

Your engine is currently worthless but rather than condemning it at this stage I'd start asking questions like what exactly are the symptoms and how exactly has it failed? Has it done this before? If so what were the circumstances and was the solution? Were there any indications of something wrong like excess or unusual noise or smoke or steam before it packed up? If there was excess smoke then what colour was it? Does the engine turn over easily but not fire or is it stiff or seized solid? What does the engine oil look like? Is the stop/fuel shut off mechanism working correctly?

Boat engines are simple things and simple tests like ones for correct valve operation and compression and fuel delivery and battery condition all give you valuable clues helping you or a professional earn a pretty good chance of logically working out what the problem is.

And if it is just a blown head gasket then working out why its blown and fitting a replacement is way less drama and expense then faffing about swapping engines over.

 

[potentillaCO32]

Do we have even the smallest of opportunity to take the engine apart ourselves and swap the gasket(at least if there not a bigger underlying problem) and would anyone have any sort of reading material or some sort of guide to doing so. I cant seem to find anything on Nanni at all

First of all, how have you diagnosed head gasket failure?
Hgf may be the start of a cause of a seizure but it is not what siezed the engine. The seizure could be from water in the bore corroding the piston rings to the bore or from the big end bearing not being lubricated and seizing. Either way a new gasket is not going to fix it.
If you have rebuilt engines before it would be worth having a go at stripping the engine as you can't make it worse. But the cost of machining and parts will be significant even if you do the work yourself.
A good secondhand engine of the same type is probably the most cost effective way forward. Secondhand engines are always a risk though.
The sad truth about old sailing boats at the moment is that the cost of a new engine is way more than even a lovely boat like a sadler 25/26 is worth.

 

[Malish]

its very rare that an engine 'seizes' on its own; as per posts #4 & #5, it essential to establish how / why it seized. Has somebody experienced in such matters had a look at it? there are mobile engineers available (where are you?) that will not cost the earth and can guide you.

 

[Egret]

+1 for an outboard on bracket if it's just for getting on and off mooring in a relatively sheltered area - even if just as an interim until the engine is sorted -

You could also look at how much work would be needed to put outboard in well in rear locker as the one currently on Apollo Duck at Whitby (presumably original installation) but would need to get advice from a surveyor before cutting holes.