New build Princess F55 flybridge

[henryf]

I think I’m right in saying that we can still use the bathing platform hydraulics with the engines on but I am happy to stand corrected. I can see why it would be isolated. In terms of gyro on or off I’m yet to use the gyro in anger so will need to have a bit of a play. I’m still very much in the fine tuning phase from an operational perspective. I can make the boat do what I want and to a casual observer it will all look slick but I want to have things second nature and learn the subtle tweaks that make things tick.

Why have the VEEM strips? I suspect a number of reasons. You can order 1 prop en mass then fine tune. This makes it easy when ordering replacements, they should be off the shelf. There is talk of then being able to fine tune on the fly to suit individual users. Do you want ultra high speed performance, economy mid range, displacement?

They worked well on the P50 with zero maintenance over 10 years.

 

[jfm]

As regards interlocks between running engines and hi lo platforms, it depends on what manufacturer chooses. On both my Sq78s they were linked, so by default the hi lo would not operate with engines on, and engines would not start with hi lo down, BUT Fairline provided an override switch in the engine room, in a box with a screwed lid, allowing the interlock to be overridden. I overrode it from day 1 and screwed the lid back on the box. I absolutely want to be able to operate the hi lo with engines running, precisely for a MOB situation. If Fairline had not provided this, I would have wired it myself, and ditto on my next boat.

Also, Fairline provided an alarm/flashing light at helm that operated whenever engines were running with hi lo not fully up - very sensible.

Recovery of MOB is another reason you want engine controls in aft cockpit - makes things much safer and easier. Driver can see casualty without having to rely on shouted instructions.

As regards fin stabilisers, I would want them on when recovering MOB in rough weather. Sure, keep the MOB away from the fins, but the improved MOB recovery that you get from having a stable boat far outweighs the risk to a MOB of moving fins, imho. All assumes very competent helmsman, etc.

I have rescued on one occasion in bad weather. Warms seas off Corsica. My boat was driven from aft cockpit with fins running so manoeuvring it while seeing the casualties close up was fine. The seas were big and my boat wasn't rolling (fins) but the thing that sticks in my mind was how difficult it was to deal with heave. The speed at which the rescue boat rises upwards and slams down when stationary in a big sea can be shocking. A swim platform can thwack the people you're rescuing on the way up and down, and the chine can thwack them on the way down. It is what it is and you have to deal with it, but I'd still rather have a working hi lo and fins than not.

 

[jfm]

Having done MOB training in January at sea in Majorca, lowering the platform is unlikely as you will need the engines turned off to do so ...

As mentioned above, if I had a boat like that I would re-wire it

 

[Elessar]

As regards interlocks between running engines and hi lo platforms, it depends on what manufacturer chooses. On both my Sq78s they were linked, so by default the hi lo would not operate with engines on, and engines would not start with hi lo down, BUT Fairline provided an override switch in the engine room, in a box with a screwed lid, allowing the interlock to be overridden. I overrode it from day 1 and screwed the lid back on the box. I absolutely want to be able to operate the hi lo with engines running, precisely for a MOB situation. If Fairline had not provided this, I would have wired it myself, and ditto on my next boat.

Also, Fairline provided an alarm/flashing light at helm that operated whenever engines were running with hi lo not fully up - very sensible.

Recovery of MOB is another reason you want engine controls in aft cockpit - makes things much safer and easier. Driver can see casualty without having to rely on shouted instructions.

As regards fin stabilisers, I would want them on when recovering MOB in rough weather. Sure, keep the MOB away from the fins, but the improved MOB recovery that you get from having a stable boat far outweighs the risk to a MOB of moving fins, imho. All assumes very competent helmsman, etc.

I have rescued on one occasion in bad weather. Warms seas off Corsica. My boat was driven from aft cockpit with fins running so manoeuvring it while seeing the casualties close up was fine. The seas were big and my boat wasn't rolling (fins) but the thing that sticks in my mind was how difficult it was to deal with heave. The speed at which the rescue boat rises upwards and slams down when stationary in a big sea can be shocking. A swim platform can thwack the people you're rescuing on the way up and down, and the chine can thwack them on the way down. It is what it is and you have to deal with it, but I'd still rather have a working hi lo and fins than not.

A third party rescue?
Heave was the reason for my “very difficult” post. It possibly liferaft time.

 

[henryf]

Slightly different approach. If wind & tide conditions allow turn boat sideways or partially sideways into the waves, use stabilisation to minimise roll and being side on heave is minimised.

I appreciate that individual conditions will vary but I’d be interested in having a little play to see if there’s a solution there. This is the sort of fine tuning I need to do on the F55 in order to understand all the tools in the box.

 

[henryf]

When it came to naming the boat we took a slightly unconventional approach. Daughter not longer wanted a boat named after her so we needed to find a replacement. The tender eventually held a solution. If we called it Sticky Rice the main tub could be Mango. We spend a bit of time in Thailand so it made a good fit.

The next issue was how to apply said name. Up to now we’ve used vinyl, in the case of the P50 it was chrome / metal effect. This time round I decided to bite the bullet and use real steel. Our resident stainless steel lettering expert is of course @petem so it would be rude not to use him.

A few emails to decide on typeface and sizes then a couple of weeks later a box of bits arrived. Being individual letters it would ordinarily take a genius to line everything up correctly but thankfully Pete thinks of everything and supplies a hard plastic template which you tape onto the boat to get alignment right and then the letters fit in the letter sized holes. It was just like being 2 years old again trying to push shapes into the box

3M VHB tape did the sticking and fingers crossed they stay on.

Either way it’s a much smarter solution than we’ve had previously and more befitting an up market charter boat. Just the skipper to try and smarten up now

 

[Bouba]

Well done Pete

 

[Elessar]

When it came to naming the boat we took a slightly unconventional approach. Daughter not longer wanted a boat named after her so we needed to find a replacement. The tender eventually held a solution. If we called it Sticky Rice the main tub could be Mango. We spend a bit of time in Thailand so it made a good fit.

The next issue was how to apply said name. Up to now we’ve used vinyl, in the case of the P50 it was chrome / metal effect. This time round I decided to bite the bullet and use real steel. Our resident stainless steel lettering expert is of course @petem so it would be rude not to use him.

A few emails to decide on typeface and sizes then a couple of weeks later a box of bits arrived. Being individual letters it would ordinarily take a genius to line everything up correctly but thankfully Pete thinks of everything and supplies a hard plastic template which you tape onto the boat to get alignment right and then the letters fit in the letter sized holes. It was just like being 2 years old again trying to push shapes into the box

3M VHB tape did the sticking and fingers crossed they stay on.

Either way it’s a much smarter solution than we’ve had previously and more befitting an up market charter boat. Just the skipper to try and smarten up now

Are you sure the name isn’t an instruction from your wife?

 

[jfm]

Nice job @petem aka Smartmarine.Co.uk

 

[rafiki_]

Are you sure the name isn’t an instruction from your wife?

Hey, Mr Lakesailor, you’re late to this one.

 

[petem]

When it came to naming the boat we took a slightly unconventional approach. Daughter not longer wanted a boat named after her so we needed to find a replacement. The tender eventually held a solution. If we called it Sticky Rice the main tub could be Mango. We spend a bit of time in Thailand so it made a good fit.

The next issue was how to apply said name. Up to now we’ve used vinyl, in the case of the P50 it was chrome / metal effect. This time round I decided to bite the bullet and use real steel. Our resident stainless steel lettering expert is of course @petem so it would be rude not to use him.

A few emails to decide on typeface and sizes then a couple of weeks later a box of bits arrived. Being individual letters it would ordinarily take a genius to line everything up correctly but thankfully Pete thinks of everything and supplies a hard plastic template which you tape onto the boat to get alignment right and then the letters fit in the letter sized holes. It was just like being 2 years old again trying to push shapes into the box

3M VHB tape did the sticking and fingers crossed they stay on.

Either way it’s a much smarter solution than we’ve had previously and more befitting an up market charter boat. Just the skipper to try and smarten up now

Thanks Henry, was a pleasure doing business with you.

And well done for the foresight in choosing such a short name (saving yourself a few £)!

 

[J12345T]

Whilst owning the 50 we’ve never really been tempted until the F55 came along. The 52 and 56 flybridge boats from Princess were OK but I felt the galleys were a bit compromised and struggled to see sufficient benefit for the price it would cost to change. The F55 finally offered enough to make the leap.

An order was placed at the 2021 Southampton boat show and by Southampton 2022 the hull had been moulded. But I’m running away with myself a bit.

At the boat show I was talking to Sunseeker (Manhattan 55) as well as Princess. The boys from Poole presented a gold standard sales pitch. No stone was left unturned, no closing line or technique overlooked. I got all 57 chapters of the salesman’s bible.

By contrast Roger Lipman the Princess group Sales Director was wearing a slightly ill fitting jumper and didn’t seem that bothered as we had a grown up discussion around price and timescale. Don’t get me wrong, he wanted to retain his top YBW Princess brand ambassador and did whatever he could to keep me sweet - but there was no pressure. Maybe it’s a sign of just how good they are in Swanwick but I almost see them as friends.

With such long lead times you’re never going to see the heady discounts of 2009 but one thing a long lead time does mean is there will be price increases before you take delivery. Princess honoured the price at the show regardless of any changes moving forwards so there’s an effective discount when you finally take delivery.

After Southampton 2021 I managed to get a sea trial on a F55 and there was quite a difference compared to our Mk3 50 flybridge. The 50 is quite a sporty boat for a 50 foot flybridge. Very responsive to the helm she turns into corners beautifully and can be trimmed to perfection for all weather conditions. The F55 feels a bit more grown up. The flat rear section of the hull means it remains more upright in turns and has a wider turning circle at speed. Over use of the trim tabs reduces speed significantly so they need to be used with caution.

The wind dodge on the Mk3 50 flybridge means the skipper is kept nicely protected. The F55 has a much lower dodge meaning the skipper has more of the wind in the hair experience. In an ideal world I’d sacrifice looks for a taller screen dodge on the F55 but that isn’t an option.

In the ensuing 10 years between now and the build of our 50 Princess have worked hard to improve their product so there are many often small details which all combine to encourage your hand into your pocket but there’s no getting away from the hard truth it’s a fair chunk of money to move up from our 50 to a new F55.

Towards the end of 2021 we organised a trip to the Princess factory. It was the first time I’d visited so didn’t really know what to expect. I’d toured the Sunseeker factory previously but it was a while ago.

There’s a lot to take in. A model range spanning 35 feet to over 95 feet, design, production, engineering laid out over pretty much the whole of Plymouth. Our F55 is actually being built in their massive Langage facility in the outskirts of Plympton, one of several Princess facilities. The hull is moulded using a resin infusion process. Essentially a layer of glass fibre is placed in the mould. A foam core is sandwiched between it and another layer of glass fibre. Resin is then introduced under vacuum to ensure total penetration.

Once the basic shell is moulded stringers, engine mounts and so on are added by hand. Reinforcement is designed into critical areas such as through hull fittings. Everything is custom cut to fit the design and moulding. The foam core comes in kit form with each individual piece located in a specific spot, it’s a bit like doing a 3D jigsaw puzzle.

Princess design in house for most of the time and are somewhat unusual in that they build full sized mock ups of all their designs. As technology improves there’s a temptation to utilise CAD / 3D visualisation techniques to allow virtual walk throughs. They’re good but a full size mock up allows designers and engineers to walk through and touch the boat, sit at tables, understand eye lines and visual limitations from the helm and so on. Are the hand rails where you want them? Do you catch the edge of a piece of furniture when moving around the interior?

Princess have some impressive technology dotted around the town including full sized 5 axis milling machines which take up a whole room. These can be used for hull or topside work allowing rapid table to touch capability for designers.

All the best with your new build however, I'm not sure I could ever sacrifice the strength and security of the solid glass hull of my 50 mark 3 for a resin infused sandwich.

Cheers,

James.

 

[Elessar]

All the best with your new build however, I'm not sure I could ever sacrifice the strength and security of the solid glass hull of my 50 mark 3 for a resin infused sandwich.

Cheers,

James.

So you are saying “That will do” construction beats precisely repeatable properly engineered design every time……….
I suppose you think a TVR is better than a 911.

 

[jfm]

All the best with your new build however, I'm not sure I could ever sacrifice the strength and security of the solid glass hull of my 50 mark 3 for a resin infused sandwich.

Cheers,

James.

I think princess have got it right on F55. Only the above waterline parts are cored sandwich construction; the hull bottom is solid. Above the waterline, cored sandwich construction is simply better than solid and every quality builder uses it these days. With vacuum bagging, cored construction became the best way to construct; prior to vacuum bagging it was an unreliable build method with lots of failure, and best avoided.

The reasons sandwich/cored is not the best method for the hull bottom are (a) zillions of skin fittings; (b) compression loads generally, but especially engine weight; (c) the extra weight of un-cored construction matters least on a hull bottom; and (d) greater puncture resistance of solid construction helps in case you hit debris. So overall, solid is best on hull bottom.

 

[Sunny265]

I think princess have got it right on F55. Only the above waterline parts are cored sandwich construction; the hull bottom is solid. Above the waterline, cored sandwich construction is simply better than solid and every quality builder uses it these days. With vacuum bagging, cored construction became the best way to construct; prior to vacuum bagging it was an unreliable build method with lots of failure, and best avoided.

The reasons sandwich/cored is not the best method for the hull bottom are (a) zillions of skin fittings; (b) compression loads generally, but especially engine weight; (c) the extra weight of un-cored construction matters least on a hull bottom; and (d) greater puncture resistance of solid construction helps in case you hit debris. So overall, solid is best on hull bottom.

And ‘mods’ by a previous owner as the boat ages who haven’t bothered to check where the correct locations are for skin fittings or thru-hulls…

 

[henryf]

Pleased to say we got our Small commercial vessel Certificate through today so we are officially in the charter business again !

I have to give a massive shout out to Martin Pitillo our surveyor who worked with us on the coding process. There is quite a lot of work to do starting with a stability test. Martin was able to do this on a Saturday when I could arrange to have bodies available to act as weight, the alternative of using water containers is time consuming and hard work. It's much easier hosting a coffee morning and breaking out the biscuits & cakes.

The actual coding inspection is a full day and the boat has to come out of the water. Once again Martin was able to accommodate a cancelled lift due to high winds and its subsequent re-scheduling. All this was done with the backdrop of a planned trip to Thailand looming which meant I was going to be out of the country. There are loads of things to check and measure on a new boat some of which are a bit bizarre but rules is rules.... Oh and we needed a gross tonnage survey / certificate as well.

Most of the coding process was straight forward thanks to a combination of the builder doing things properly, us having operated a coded vessel for 10 years and knowing likely problem areas. Martin liaised with the MCA and RYA in relation to guard rail heights. Because the F55 is built to ISO 15085 we were able to get a certificate of equivalence which is a neat solution.

The RYA were their usual efficient selves when it came to paperwork. As a motor boat group we often belittle the RYA, I've found them great for handling the commercial coding / compliance and they always get back to you quickly.

In a perverse way I've enjoyed the process as it's helped me further understand the boat, current thinking re: safety and so on. Even if I was using the boat privately I'd try and keep it maintained to commercial coding standards. You just feel that you've got a fighting chance should things go wrong out there.

 

[Elessar]

Pleased to say we got our Small commercial vessel Certificate through today so we are officially in the charter business again !

I have to give a massive shout out to Martin Pitillo our surveyor who worked with us on the coding process. There is quite a lot of work to do starting with a stability test. Martin was able to do this on a Saturday when I could arrange to have bodies available to act as weight, the alternative of using water containers is time consuming and hard work. It's much easier hosting a coffee morning and breaking out the biscuits & cakes.

The actual coding inspection is a full day and the boat has to come out of the water. Once again Martin was able to accommodate a cancelled lift due to high winds and its subsequent re-scheduling. All this was done with the backdrop of a planned trip to Thailand looming which meant I was going to be out of the country. There are loads of things to check and measure on a new boat some of which are a bit bizarre but rules is rules.... Oh and we needed a gross tonnage survey / certificate as well.

Most of the coding process was straight forward thanks to a combination of the builder doing things properly, us having operated a coded vessel for 10 years and knowing likely problem areas. Martin liaised with the MCA and RYA in relation to guard rail heights. Because the F55 is built to ISO 15085 we were able to get a certificate of equivalence which is a neat solution.

The RYA were their usual efficient selves when it came to paperwork. As a motor boat group we often belittle the RYA, I've found them great for handling the commercial coding / compliance and they always get back to you quickly.

In a perverse way I've enjoyed the process as it's helped me further understand the boat, current thinking re: safety and so on. Even if I was using the boat privately I'd try and keep it maintained to commercial coding standards. You just feel that you've got a fighting chance should things go wrong out there.

That is a neat solution. I’m having the raise the guardrails in my cockpit. Annoying and pointless, but compliant.

 

[henryf]

That is a neat solution. I’m having the raise the guardrails in my cockpit. Annoying and pointless, but compliant.

Because it is a new build boat and we have the full set of current standards complied with we were able to go down this route. We can also get help from Princess Sales / the factory if need be to confirm compliance. On an older boat it wouldn't be possible and any standards used for compliance may no longer be recognised for this purpose.

Things have definitely changed as a result of recent accidents and tragedies.

 

[Commercial Dave]

Even if I was using the boat privately I'd try and keep it maintained to commercial coding standards. You just feel that you've got a fighting chance should things go wrong out there.

Totally agree, I skipper a commercial RIB and the amount of kit we have to carry on that is ridiculous almost to the point where we struggle to fit it all in the very small amount of dry storage we have. It does make me wonder when I see the credit card captains come out in the summer with their brand new 500hp luxury RIBs flying along at 45 knots not wearing life jackets, no lifebuoys, or even AIS. We are well equipped to deal with a wide range of emergencies whereas they'd struggle with anything more than a basic MOB

 

[Greg2]

Totally agree, I skipper a commercial RIB and the amount of kit we have to carry on that is ridiculous almost to the point where we struggle to fit it all in the very small amount of dry storage we have. It does make me wonder when I see the credit card captains come out in the summer with their brand new 500hp luxury RIBs flying along at 45 knots not wearing life jackets, no lifebuoys, or even AIS. We are well equipped to deal with a wide range of emergencies whereas they'd struggle with anything more than a basic MOB

We run coded boats at work (I am a commercially endorsed YM) and whilst I would’t necessarily disagree I would say that the rules are a little risk averse. Risk management is about likelihood and consequence and to my mind likelihood features a bit less in MCA thinking than consequence.