New build Princess F55 flybridge

[DAW]

If that were the case, it wouldn't be the most dangerous reason that they aren't paralleled up.
It is quite likely that two separate sockets on the marina power pedestal COULD be on separate phases.
My berth is Spain definitely has more than one phase on its shore sockets.
If they WERE simply paralleled up and were then connected to separate phases, there would be a huge bang.

The same here in the SoF ... sometimes more than one phase on each shore power pedestal, particularly those intended for larger boats, and so potentially dangerous to be connecting two cables in parallel unless your boat is designed with systems which are split and isolated. Some marinas prohibit dual shore power connections and others leave the shore-side breakers switched off on their larger visitors berths so you have to ask them to come and turn on the power and they can see what you're planning to do.

My 60ft Sunseeker has one single phase 63 amp shore power connector and a 13.5kW generator. I've never had any problems with power tripping out either on the boat or marina supply side, whether on shore power or generator. This is even with full a/c and lots of other stuff running in the height of summer. The main downside of this set-up is that shore-power cable capable of safely handling the load is heavy and bulky, so rather than one long cable I have a couple of 5m/10m lengths with heavy-duty waterproof connectors/adaptors to mix and match as needed.

 

[MapisM]

@ Hurricane & DAW:
What you are referring to is a device that we already discussed in the past, and which aside of not being commercially available, is also downright dangerous - to the point of having being designated (by jfm, IIRC) as "Lethal Bit Of Kit", aka LBOK.

What henryf is referring to is the reverse of it, because it connects a 32A plug into a 32A pedestal socket, and then splits it into two 16A trailing sockets.
This device is frequently used in many marinas, and there's no danger at all associated with it, because:
1) there's zero risk of connecting two different phases, since the one and only live phase is supplied by the 32A pedestal socket;
2) there's a negligible risk of electrocution even if one of the two 16A sockets is left free while the 32A pedestal socket is turned on because, well, because it's a socket, not a plug.
Someone should stick a screwdriver or something inside the socket to get electrocuted, which is Darwinism at work!

As opposed to all that, the LBOK is a device with one 32A trailing socket split into two 16A trailing plugs.
This is meant for boats with a single 32A connection, when they are moored on a dock which is only equipped with 16A sockets.
And THIS isn't called LBOK for nothing, because:
1) depending on how the pedestal is wired, it is indeed possible to short two different phases, and
2) when only one of the 16A plugs is connected to a live 16A socket, the other one remains exposed and it's sufficient to touch its pins to get electrocuted.

 

[Chris H]

The 32 amp commando socket will be connected to one phase only, then split into two 16amp commando sockets, no chance of connecting to different phases.

Try berthing in Monaco…….125amp three phase commando sockets !

 

[DAW]

The 32 amp commando socket will be connected to one phase only, then split into two 16amp commando sockets, no chance of connecting to different phases.

Try berthing in Monaco…….125amp three phase commando sockets !

Monaco uses the Mennekes PowerTOP 125 amp three phase socket ... which is also in common use in other marinas in SoF ... and they supply either single-phase 220V, or three-phase 380V. If your shore-power plug is wired correctly, then for boats of our size you connect to only one phase at 220V, even if 380V is available from the pedestal.

Agree totally that if you connect only one shore power cable to the supply, you will be connected to only one phase and then how you split that to supply your boat and its systems should not create problems. Problems arise when two separate cables are connected to the same marina supply unit. From my experience, this is more common in practice than you might think ... many owners have no idea how single-phase/three-phase power works and just assume the marina will always supply 220V.

 

[Portofino]

I always thought they just arbitrarily used 16 ( my 12M S/ Sker with AC ). Then 32 the next size my 48 ft Itama , then 64 where ever that cut off is guessing 58 Ft as DAW has it then 128 ish ?
In the belief as boats increase in L there power demands roughly fall into one of those brackets .

We have berthed in Monaco as an example and like many others they send a sparky , not just to give a suitable adapter but to check the Dir of the stuff as some pedestal s have been reversed by the sparky for the previous incumbent.

Some marinas want a deposit for the adapter some like Monaco send a morning guy to read the meter ( to calc to final tariff ) who helps you depart and thus recovers it .

This is what’s happened when I have been put on a 64 or greater .

@ Chris ( for tech info ) How does it work …….our boat like yours is a 32 A when they via adapters plug us into a higher typically, but not exclusively a 64 A ?

When all I need is under 32 A what happens to the headroom?why doesn’t the wire fry or anything go bang on the console or ER with the 64 A or 128 A from the pedestal streaming into the boat designed for 32 A ?

Seen a few boats have two leads but never understood why ? Why is that anybody .Princess , Jeanneau and Fairline .When identical sizes have the 1 .
The Y shaped thing exposed to weather dangling 1/2 on the pontoon often very near the tap(s) …..what’s the advantage (s) ?

 

[jfm]

Took a drive out to one of @jfm ‘s scatter cushion storage facilities to get some inspiration. I’m not overly fussed but apparently they’re the thing to have on a new boat….. ?

Ooh - where is that Henry?
(Looks refrigerated, judging by S's gloves. Keeps the cushions fresh, I guess )

 

[DAW]

When all I need is under 32 A what happens to the headroom?why doesn’t the wire fry or anything go bang on the console or ER with the 64 A or 128 A from the pedestal streaming into the boat designed for 32 A ?

Seen a few boats have two leads but never understood why ? Why is that anybody .Princess , Jeanneau and Fairline .When identical sizes have the 1 .
The Y shaped thing exposed to weather dangling 1/2 on the pontoon often very near the tap(s) …..what’s the advantage (s) ?

Sorry if this seems a little basic ...

The power supply will not force its maximum rated current through the shore power cable. Only the current that the boat requires to operate its systems will flow. The boat's systems place a load on the supply and increasing the load (by turning on more systems) increases the power requested from the supply. Provided the supply voltage remains near constant (which it should) the current drawn from the supply will increase to meet this additional power requirement (electrical power is the product of voltage and current). If there is a reduced load, then less current flows. Problems occur not when the load is too low, but when it is too high and too much current is drawn. Then the shore power cable can get fried and/or the circuit breakers trip.

I'm sure there is some logic for using split inputs on a boat of this size ... perhaps based on separating the higher/fluctuating load of AC systems from the lower/more constant load of other systems, allowing the use of lower currents and lower-rated circuit breakers within a split system, or to deal with low-rated shore supplies (perhaps more of a problem in the UK and elsewhere than in the Western Med). However, I'm not sure it's really necessary anymore and clearly most manufacturers now choose not to do this.

 

[jfm]

When all I need is under 32 A what happens to the headroom?why doesn’t the wire fry or anything go bang on the console or ER with the 64 A or 128 A from the pedestal streaming into the boat designed for 32 A ?

Nothing happens to the headroom. It's just there, unused. Like having a 10 ton crane lifting a 1 ton weight - nothing happens to the 9 tons of headroom. The shore supply merely stands there at a voltage and is rated to permit you to draw 125 amp or 64amp if your appliances wish to draw that; you're not forced to take it.

 

[MapisM]

When all I need is under 32 A what happens to the headroom? why doesn’t the wire fry or anything go bang on the console or ER with the 64 A or 128 A from the pedestal streaming into the boat designed for 32 A ?

The image of a boat exploding due to high current being somehow "pumped" inside it by a dockside connection gets my vote as one of the most surrealistic ever suggested here in the asylum!
Sorry for what I'm aware is a useless reply, but I see that your actual question was already addressed effectively by DAW and jfm in the meantime.
And no offense intended, of course.
I witnessed all sort of dockside connection acrobatic attempts, inclusive of folks trying to push a 16A plug inside a 63A 3-phase socket, where even the colour is different...
But as I understood later, one of these guys went RTW alone on a sailboat, which commands much more respect than any electrical knowledge!

 

[Portofino]

Thx chaps . Sorry for the TD , but it’s isn’t really as I understand H has me on ignore .If he didn’t i wouldn’t have asked , but seeing as shore power on different pedestal ratings came up………..

 

[Chris H]

I always thought they just arbitrarily used 16 ( my 12M S/ Sker with AC ). Then 32 the next size my 48 ft Itama , then 64 where ever that cut off is guessing 58 Ft as DAW has it then 128 ish ?
In the belief as boats increase in L there power demands roughly fall into one of those brackets .

We have berthed in Monaco as an example and like many others they send a sparky , not just to give a suitable adapter but to check the Dir of the stuff as some pedestal s have been reversed by the sparky for the previous incumbent.

Some marinas want a deposit for the adapter some like Monaco send a morning guy to read the meter ( to calc to final tariff ) who helps you depart and thus recovers it .

This is what’s happened when I have been put on a 64 or greater .

@ Chris ( for tech info ) How does it work …….our boat like yours is a 32 A when they via adapters plug us into a higher typically, but not exclusively a 64 A ?

When all I need is under 32 A what happens to the headroom?why doesn’t the wire fry or anything go bang on the console or ER with the 64 A or 128 A from the pedestal streaming into the boat designed for 32 A ?

Seen a few boats have two leads but never understood why ? Why is that anybody .Princess , Jeanneau and Fairline .When identical sizes have the 1 .
The Y shaped thing exposed to weather dangling 1/2 on the pontoon often very near the tap(s) …..what’s the advantage (s) ?

Others have answered your question re load, see it as load being sucked from the supply not pushed !

I have a few different commando plugs onboard or borrow a plug from the port and change it myself.

 

[henryf]

Ooh - where is that Henry?
(Looks refrigerated, judging by S's gloves. Keeps the cushions fresh, I guess )

That was in your Windsor vault. A subterranean space very close to the castle. We were walking round the town prior to a spot of Japanese and it was chilly out there but lovely none the less. We like Windsor….

The staff said you like to keep your goose and duck down cushions rested at lower ambient temperatures. I’m dreading you and Mrs Henry F ever being in the same room together, you’re going to cost me a fortune ???

 

[henryf]

One the subject of shore power connections - I will keep you informed on the F55

The P50 Mk 3 has two totally independent circuits on board fed from separate sockets. 1 does the heating / A/C, the other does the rest of the boat.

This allows us to connect to a pair of vacant 16 amp sockets which is the most common option in the Solent or we use my 2 into 1 adaptor to connect them both to the same 32 amp socket but they still feed their respective independent circuits on board the boat.

No way of trying to pair unmatched phases.

 

[dankilb]

The image of a boat exploding due to high current being somehow "pumped" inside it by a dockside connection gets my vote as one of the most surrealistic ever suggested here in the asylum!

You don’t half get the gist of some rubbish from sources that many of us presumably have on ignore!

 

[Ian h]

The 32 amp commando socket will be connected to one phase only, then split into two 16amp commando sockets, no chance of connecting to different phases.

Try berthing in Monaco…….125amp three phase commando sockets !

 

[Pinnacle]

At least the tap is below the socket! ?

 

[MapisM]

The P50 Mk 3 has two totally independent circuits on board fed from separate sockets. 1 does the heating / A/C, the other does the rest of the boat.

What happens when on genset, is there some sort of selector that you must turn to connect the two circuits in parallel?
Just curious!

 

[MapisM]

You don’t half get the gist of some rubbish from sources that many of us presumably have on ignore!

I never used the ignore function, neither in this nor any other forum, 'cause I think it actually makes debates harder to follow.
Much easier and faster to just skip posts when they are meaningless.
Which, more often than not, is dead easy to understand from the very beginning...!

 

[jfm]

What happens when on genset, is there some sort of selector that you must turn to connect the two circuits in parallel?
Just curious!

I would guess Mapism that Princess have fitted a VSR that joins the two 230v buses on the boat when the relay senses 230v from genset, but doesn't join the two buses when only one of the shore leads is plugged in. I seem to remember that's how my Squadron 58 classic was wired.

 

[MapisM]

Aha, got it. You also had separate RCDs and breakers on the two buses, I suppose?
Anyway, I see the logic of making the conversion seamless and automatic, but 'fiuaskme I'd rather have a plain vanilla selector for choosing manually which circuit to feed (A only, B only, both or none).
I have a bit of a pet peeve against electrical components doing something behind the scenes, unbeknown to the operator... But that's me, of course!