New build Princess F55 flybridge

[jrudge]

I opted for AGM batteries in lieu of the standard offering. Shorepower and charging is as per Princess fit. I’m assuming there will be a pair of 16 amp inlets although it could be a single 32 amp ?

Standard anchor, extra 20m of chain (the cheapest of my options) to make it up to 60m

We have 2 x 32 on a 58 ft boat. The one next to us has I am pretty sure a single 32a. They use it as a day boat and never cook on it, but if you did based on my own experience I would think 32a gets used up pretty rapidly.

AC / Chargers ( decent load when battered flat). Immersion, gyro ( only large on start up ) before you even get to cooking ( 4 rings ( usually no more than 2 on the go at once, toaster , kettle , microwave )

 

[henryf]

And then magically the owner finds a long list of faults in the first 24 hours which gets added to over the following weeks......

I’m sure we will find stuff. Ultimately a boat has lots of components and areas tucked away. With the best will in the world there’s only so much a PDI inspection can pick up.

There will also be items which materialise as you start to use them. The run back from Plymouth to the The Hamble gives the boat a good initial shake down.

 

[jrudge]

Our new boat was a Squadron 65. Nothing ever stopped it moving so everything that went wrong was simply annoying and never stoped a trip.

I suppose my view is that given the price of these things and they are production boat the overall QA is poor.

Imagine your nice shiny Porsche having similar issues? A Porsche is only £100k ( yes you can spend more or less) but you boat is likely 20 times that and they have built hundreds of them ( as they did for S 65s)

I suppose I feel that for the money they should do better.

The repairs are then the responsibility of the dealer who is mostly poorly equipped to deal with issues / parts etc. In the Uk then might be better ( they can get the parts sent over from the factory) but in Mallorca whilst far from terrible it is not "main dealer" service. That said Porsche are diabolical to deal with so if they said they provided Porsche level service I would run a mile!

 

[henryf]

Our new boat was a Squadron 65. Nothing ever stopped it moving so everything that went wrong was simply annoying and never stoped a trip.

I suppose my view is that given the price of these things and they are production boat the overall QA is poor.

Imagine your nice shiny Porsche having similar issues? A Porsche is only £100k ( yes you can spend more or less) but you boat is likely 20 times that and they have built hundreds of them ( as they did for S 65s)

I suppose I feel that for the money they should do better.

The repairs are then the responsibility of the dealer who is mostly poorly equipped to deal with issues / parts etc. In the Uk then might be better ( they can get the parts sent over from the factory) but in Mallorca whilst far from terrible it is not "main dealer" service. That said Porsche are diabolical to deal with so if they said they provided Porsche level service I would run a mile!

I hear what you're saying but boats are a hand made cottage industry in comparison to cars.

We do certainly have the advantage of location and a dealer with a very close factory relationship to the point where they are constantly in and out with boats coming round on a weekly basis.

 

[henryf]

I’m sure we will find stuff. Ultimately a boat has lots of components and areas tucked away. With the best will in the world there’s only so much a PDI inspection can pick up.

There will also be items which materialise as you start to use them. The run back from Plymouth to the The Hamble gives the boat a good initial shake down.

On the P50 we have a pair of 16A which I can either plug into separate shore power sockets or combine with a 2 into 1 adapter and use a 32A socket.

I find the shore power is the weak link when travelling around. Some places are very solid, others trip easily / early.

Ultimately if you’re running a big load then use the genny. There aren’t many places here on the Solent where I would find a pair of 32A sockets to plug into. It’s hard enough finding one.

 

[henryf]

We have 2 x 32 on a 58 ft boat. The one next to us has I am pretty sure a single 32a. They use it as a day boat and never cook on it, but if you did based on my own experience I would think 32a gets used up pretty rapidly.

AC / Chargers ( decent load when battered flat). Immersion, gyro ( only large on start up ) before you even get to cooking ( 4 rings ( usually no more than 2 on the go at once, toaster , kettle , microwave )

Sorry, I replied to myself when trying to reply to this comment !

 

[TQ1]

I hear what you're saying but boats are a hand made cottage industry in comparison to cars.

We do certainly have the advantage of location and a dealer with a very close factory relationship to the point where they are constantly in and out with boats coming round on a weekly basis.

Being a supplier to both marine and automotive and a buyer of both boats and cars the build quality difference is something I have often pondered. As you say the car industry is so much larger than the boat industry and the marine environment is harsher. However, I do wonder if the sheer number of options that you can get with a new "large boat" hampers the quality overall because they cannot standardise a production process. It must also be difficult when using third party parts because if a supplier discontinues / upgrades a part mid-way through a build then they have to find an alternative and deal with the knock on effects of changing a component.

Very interesting thread BTW.

 

[henryf]

Being a supplier to both marine and automotive and a buyer of both boats and cars the build quality difference is something I have often pondered. As you say the car industry is so much larger than the boat industry and the marine environment is harsher. However, I do wonder if the sheer number of options that you can get with a new "large boat" hampers the quality overall because they cannot standardise a production process. It must also be difficult when using third party parts because if a supplier discontinues / upgrades a part mid-way through a build then they have to find an alternative and deal with the knock on effects of changing a component.

Very interesting thread BTW.

Princess are pretty good re: standardising the build to the detriment of potential customers like JFM who want lots of changes.

Whilst there are options they come off a standard list and being brutally honest with you 70% of the stuff ends up going on most boats. Princess Sales / Argo used to order lots of stock boats and their choice of options isn’t too far off the mark.

I think the real problem with boats is sheer volume and scale of economy. Even someone like Rolls Royce producing 6,000 cars a year can invest in tooling to ensure every car is identical. Porsche scrap more than the 135 F55s built developing and proving the car before it hits the ground.

There is definitely an issue when suppliers change things or fail to deliver, Princess have suffered from that a lot since covid. Even building 250 - 300 boats per year they aren’t big enough to call the shots to a supplier of major components.

If you look at house building there will still be snagging and a house is far less complex than a boat. It also uses standard materials and techniques.

 

[henryf]

Took a drive out to one of @jfm ‘s scatter cushion storage facilities to get some inspiration. I’m not overly fussed but apparently they’re the thing to have on a new boat….. ?

 

[Parabolica]

And then magically the owner finds a long list of faults in the first 24 hours which gets added to over the following weeks......

Or even 12 yrs and 500hrs further on, doing my WOBBLI checks last week, i noticed that a drain pipe in one of the bulkheads in the engine room had an end laid up over with grp and which has never been cleared in all these years. How did i notice it ?, Because the water was being held in front of the bulkhead. Amazing to see.

 

[Parabolica]

Princess are pretty good re: standardising the build to the detriment of potential customers like JFM who want lots of changes.

Whilst there are options they come off a standard list and being brutally honest with you 70% of the stuff ends up going on most boats. Princess Sales / Argo used to order lots of stock boats and their choice of options isn’t too far off the mark.

I think the real problem with boats is sheer volume and scale of economy. Even someone like Rolls Royce producing 6,000 cars a year can invest in tooling to ensure every car is identical. Porsche scrap more than the 135 F55s built developing and proving the car before it hits the ground.

There is definitely an issue when suppliers change things or fail to deliver, Princess have suffered from that a lot since covid. Even building 250 - 300 boats per year they aren’t big enough to call the shots to a supplier of major components.

If you look at house building there will still be snagging and a house is far less complex than a boat. It also uses standard materials and techniques.

i think you’ll be surprised to find out that any issue wont be the bought in components used but their integration and having not been thoroughly tested. I think its the Mclaren philosophy and which has hurt the car brand so much of sending out ascis and see what comes back rather than carrying out the thorough PDI in the first place as one breaks reputation and the other builds it.

That said, Mclaren under Princess’s current CEO wasca good company just with growing pains. It was the idiot that followed who did all the damage.

 

[mil1194]

On the P50 we have a pair of 16A which I can either plug into separate shore power sockets or combine with a 2 into 1 adapter and use a 32A socket.

I find the shore power is the weak link when travelling around. Some places are very solid, others trip easily / early.

Ultimately if you’re running a big load then use the genny. There aren’t many places here on the Solent where I would find a pair of 32A sockets to plug into. It’s hard enough finding one.

Not wanting to drift this but I have an F50 fly with a single 32A and I find getting anything over a 16A whilst cruising around the UK is unlikely. 16A is nowhere near enough for heating/cooling charging etc. We (she) don’t/doesn’t do much (any) cooking as we’re on holiday though.

 

[Martxer]

Princess are pretty good re: standardising the build to the detriment of potential customers like JFM who want lots of changes.

Whilst there are options they come off a standard list and being brutally honest with you 70% of the stuff ends up going on most boats. Princess Sales / Argo used to order lots of stock boats and their choice of options isn’t too far off the mark.

I think the real problem with boats is sheer volume and scale of economy. Even someone like Rolls Royce producing 6,000 cars a year can invest in tooling to ensure every car is identical. Porsche scrap more than the 135 F55s built developing and proving the car before it hits the ground.

There is definitely an issue when suppliers change things or fail to deliver, Princess have suffered from that a lot since covid. Even building 250 - 300 boats per year they aren’t big enough to call the shots to a supplier of major components.

If you look at house building there will still be snagging and a house is far less complex than a boat. It also uses standard materials and techniques.

Great build thread so far.
Inthink it’s unfair to compare building a boat to building a car ,one is built in a state of the art factory full of robots using man made materials. The other is hand made in large sheds using lots of natural materials, it’s probably a fairer comparison to building a house as you say as the house dries out and acclimatises snags develop.

 

[Greg2]

Not only is this a great thread from a recreational boating perspective but I am also finding it very interesting to contrast the build by a large-ish producer of leisure boats with a more commercially based build by a smaller builder that I am currently involved with through work. We are currently at the hull completion stage and one of the constant points of discussion is the challenge with supply chain and securing third party components in a timely way. I guess Princess must face the same issues but perhaps their volumes make things a little easier?

 

[Bajansailor]

@Greg2 your smaller and 'more commercial' (?) boat sounds as equally fascinating as Henry's Princess - would you like to start a new thread (to avoid hijacking Henry's) with some details about her please?

 

[rafiki_]

Great build thread so far.
Inthink it’s unfair to compare building a boat to building a car ,one is built in a state of the art factory full of robots using man made materials. The other is hand made in large sheds using lots of natural materials, it’s probably a fairer comparison to building a house as you say as the house dries out and acclimatises snags develop.

I think you might be surprised how few robots are found in the car assembly line. Lots of the body in white build is automated for steel bodies, also paint shops. In the final assembly where the car gets built there will be a robot or 2 glueing the glass in, but pretty much everything else is manual. The world over. Lots of Robert’s on an assembly line ?

 

[Commercial Dave]

I’m sure we will find stuff. Ultimately a boat has lots of components and areas tucked away. With the best will in the world there’s only so much a PDI inspection can pick up.

There will also be items which materialise as you start to use them. The run back from Plymouth to the The Hamble gives the boat a good initial shake down.

We see them in Cawsand getting a good shake down pretty much every time we're out there ?

On the P50 we have a pair of 16A which I can either plug into separate shore power sockets or combine with a 2 into 1 adapter and use a 32A socket.

I find the shore power is the weak link when travelling around. Some places are very solid, others trip easily / early.

Ultimately if you’re running a big load then use the genny. There aren’t many places here on the Solent where I would find a pair of 32A sockets to plug into. It’s hard enough finding one.

How is this set up, I assume they aren't simply paralleled, as the pins on one plug would become live as soon as the other one is connected to the mains?

 

[henryf]

We see them in Cawsand getting a good shake down pretty much every time we're out there ?



How is this set up, I assume they aren't simply paralleled, as the pins on one plug would become live as soon as the other one is connected to the mains?

32 amp on shore power pedestal. 32 amp plug into that, 2 short bits of cable to 2 16 amp sockets. One of the 16 amp boat shore power leads into each. When you unplug one of the boat’s shore power leads it isn’t powered up by the other one, that circuit goes dead.

 

[Greg2]

@Greg2 your smaller and 'more commercial' (?) boat sounds as equally fascinating as Henry's Princess - would you like to start a new thread (to avoid hijacking Henry's) with some details about her please?

Possibly at some point but I would need to check our contractual obligations first.
.

 

[Hurricane]

How is this set up, I assume they aren't simply paralleled, as the pins on one plug would become live as soon as the other one is connected to the mains?

If that were the case, it wouldn't be the most dangerous reason that they aren't paralleled up.
It is quite likely that two separate sockets on the marina power pedestal COULD be on separate phases.
My berth is Spain definitely has more than one phase on its shore sockets.
If they WERE simply paralleled up and were then connected to separate phases, there would be a huge bang.

In the past, boat builders have split the shore supplies on the boat.
One supply to run the Air Conditioning - the other to run the rest of the boat.

Alternatively and more expensively, it is possible to allow either lead to do all the boat.
I think that would require a shore supply transformer so that a separate primary winding can be used for each shore cable.

It would be interesting to hear what Princess have done on Henry latest build.
I suspect that his A/C will be powered separately from the rest of the boat though.